$15/hr minimum wage

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

Then how do you explain the fact that the vast majority of us don't fail?
Because many have, and do, follow proper ethnics and morals and do work hard. You, and others, do not take on unnecessary debt, buy unnecessary things. You, we, many, were raised by those that experienced the Great Depression, or were raised by parents who were raised by parents from the Great Depression passing on wise council. You and others were told to live within your means. Vanity, (keeping up with the Jones'), is easily fulfilled in a fiat debt based money system. The current system is designed, along with Madison Avenue advertising corporations, to lull people into buying things they don't need. Now we also have "influencers" making people 'want'. Corporations have risen to control nearly everything and answer only to Wall Street and their shareholders; Profits flow to them instead of employees.

This is not to say others failed because they lacked proper ethnics, morals and didn't work hard. But many business sectors, even individual businesses, (suddenly their bank line of credit is closed, or their loans recalled, or loan application suddenly declined, stocks sold short to destroy, etc.), are targeted to be either winners to losers, or losers to winners, by the power brokers in the financial sector. They pick who wins and loses so they can profit from both sides of the equation. The people working for those business lose as well, many having to start all over by competing with others in whatever sector they work in, often times against a younger and cheaper workforce. Tie into this the ever increasing costs of doing business, cost of goods sold, taxes, regulatory burdens, etc., and labor being the largest line item in most business budgets ... you can see why many people fail through no fault of their own. They trusted, or simply on blind faith, their employer would always be there, their job safe as long as they performed equal to, or above, the standards set. And many employers would still be there if not for outside forces beyond their control. So now that unemployed person, looking for comparable work, can't pay their mortgage, or rent, after a couple months, savings running out, and the financial downward spiral begins.

Unincorporated, non-stock traded businesses, (think small businesses and mom and pops), have an even harder time of things and are much more sensitive to market forces, inflation, supply disruptions, and many other things beyond their control. Here, often the first thing to go is an employee. Even after accounting that the owner has already been sacrificing their own pay before letting someone go.

But even, as you might agree, those of us that have not failed, find it harder, and is getting harder, to maintain the level we have. This is a simplistic view I'm relaying. There are far more machinations that contribute overall to the dysfunction that is our economy. However, you being self-employed, as others here are as well, began to feel, have felt, or always felt, something was askew, (you just couldn't quite put your finger on it), after you started your business and operated it for a while. Instinctively, as an unconscious act of self preservation, you did not take on questionable or unnecessary risks. You questioned, every-thing. You were always looking for ways to reduce costs. You operated in such as way as to limit yourself to unforeseen problems, and survive, by not spending on unnecessary or frivolous things. You, made sacrifices. You saved as much as you could. (Of course we do treat ourselves to things from time to time, rewarding ourselves, enjoying the fruits of our labor, this is not to what I refer).

Anyway, in a nut shell, that's why many don't fail, in addition to just being plain lucky, or, taking advantage of the "system" by understanding its mechanisms. But that's also not to say that many are not deep in debt to maintain themselves, there are many. They haven't failed, but have set themselves up for future failure. What you seeing also are illusions of non-failure. Ever heard the term, "house poor"? Now add car poor, and all other of life's accoutrements on credit, poor. These people do not have much money left at the end of the month, they are "living the life", but you will never know they are really, poor, until you see them fail.

In a true stable monetary system, money earned retains its purchasing power; It is your store of labor for a given day, your property. If bacon is selling for $0.13lb today, then when you retire after working for 50 years with your life savings, being frugal during your productive years, with everything being relative, (population growth, farm growth, same consumption trends, etc), 50 years later that bacon should still be, more or less, selling for $0.13lb.

Long-Term effects of monetary expansion on US Median House Prices after Nixon detached, severed, the dollar from gold. (End of the Bretton Woods agreement and the beginning of the Petrodollar).

1971: $ 25,200 (50 years ago.)
1981: $ 68,900 (40 years ago.) 2.7x increase from 1971.
1991: $120,000 (30 years ago.) 1.7x increase from 1981.
2001: $175,200 (20 years ago.) 1.5x increase from 1991.
2011: $227,200 (10 years ago.) 1.3x increase from 2001.
2021: $360,000 (today) 1.6x increase from 2011.
Data from Census.gov New Residential Sales report.
Overall: The Dollar has lost 92% of its purchasing power vs. Median House. (Size and quality of house may not be the same but still a useful comparison.) Yet another data point for the “Slow-Motion Hyperinflation” (perpetual devaluation) caused by the Fed translating “stable prices” into “steady inflation”.


Found this ... not sure of its authenticity, but it explains a lot of what is happening.

Edward Mandell House had this to say in a private meeting with Woodrow Wilson (President) [1913-1921] - This is from the minutes of a meeting in the white house that included President Woodrow Wilson and his top adviser Colonel Edward Mandell House, before the Federal Reserve Act or the 16th Amendment (the income tax amendment) were passed and ratified.

“[Very] soon, every American will be required to register their biological property in a National system designed to keep track of the people and that will operate under the ancient system of pledging. By such methodology, we can compel people to submit to our agenda, which will affect our security as a charge-back for our fiat paper currency. Every American will be forced to register or suffer not being able to work and earn a living. They will be our chattel, and we will hold the security interest over them forever, by operation of the law merchant under the scheme of secured transactions. Americans, by unknowingly or unwittingly delivering the bills of lading to us will be rendered bankrupt and insolvent, forever to remain economic slaves through taxation, secured by their pledges. They will be stripped of their rights and given a commercial value designed to make us a profit and they will be non the wiser, for not one man in a million could ever figure our plans and, if by accident one or two would figure it out, we have in our arsenal plausible deniability. After all, this is the only logical way to fund government, by floating liens and debt to the registrants in the form of benefits and privileges. This will inevitably reap to us huge profits beyond our wildest expectations and leave every American a contributor or to this fraud which we will call “Social Insurance.” Without realizing it, every American will insure us for any loss we may incur and in this manner; every American will unknowingly be our servant, however begrudgingly. The people will become helpless and without any hope for their redemption and, we will employ the high office of the President of our dummy corporation to foment this plot against America.”


Whew. I do believe this is my longest post thus far. Hope I didn't bore you.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

I never realized that making minimum wage or just above it was a wage to take someone through life...
It is not necessarily all about the minimum wage being discussed, which hasn't been raised on the federal level since, July 24, 2009. It is about low wages in general. The taking advantage of people. Before the forced plandemic lock downs, around 44% of US employees were being paid low wages, on average $10.22 an hour. There's a story of a fella, pre-plandemic, that was working for the Missoula Airport, servicing planes and aircraft on the tarmac performing deicing operations, among other duties, being paid a paltry $10.40hr for a critically important job. Who in their right mind would want go back to that, at that pay level for a very important and critical job that works to ensure the safety of flight for thousands of people? The media is touting all these so called unfilled jobs not being fulfilled by scofflaws, lazy people, and demeaning them, enforcing the idea to many that these people should work harder, sacrifice more, and play that narrative to those that have a so called good work ethic, and current well paying jobs, to look down upon those people who refuse to work as the scourge the media portrays. When it is the effect of the monetary policy in the Nation that is the root cause. The media is misdirecting purposefully by saying, "look over there, a squirrel".

Also, for employers, when paying wages, that are tied to also collecting employees deductions, Federal income taxes, State income taxes, matching Social Security and medicare contributions, health care premiums, sometimes dealing with wage garnishments set up by, then sent to, the courts, etc., and then forwarding them to the appropriate agencies, any increase in paying higher wages, increases far more for the employer than just a couple of dollar raise an hour to the employee. That same business that is fighting to keep their operating costs low in a highly inflationary environment.

Yes, originally, minimum wages were for those youngsters starting out in the work force as a restaurant server, cook, grocery bagger, sweeper or cleaner (gofer) on a construction site, or for those menial jobs that really required no learned skills such as digging a ditch, etc. (Not everyone, at any age, is suited for all lines of work). To learn how to deal and understand working for someone, what was expected of them, and develop a proper work ethic, or learn very quickly that certain behaviors are not tolerated by being fired. And at the same time while employed, working to better themselves by taking on more responsibility within whatever they were employed in, to better themselves, make themselves more valuable, or earn money to attend school or collage. Back when the dollar was pretty stable and still backed by gold, pre-1971.

But wages have not kept up with inflation, and in fact have regressed to the point to where today's minimum wage is sorely inadequate, (relative to the total money supply), accounting for inflation, had the Federal minimum wage kept pace with workers’ productivity since 1971, at $1.60hr, the inflation-adjusted minimum wage would be $24 an hour. And people wonder why they can't get ahead. And even with regular, (non-governmental forced), wage increases, raises, from employers, it is never enough for the employee to catch up to, or surpass the rate of inflation to get ahead. Because inflation is an ever increasing, month over month, year over year, phenomena.

What we are constantly being bombarded with by the complicit media, is the bottom wage earners are miscreants not doing their share by accepting all the low wage jobs supposedly being offered by the corporations, (a vast many of mom and pops and smaller businesses having been destroyed and shuttered by way of the plandemic never to return- who actually, on average, paid their employees more than corporations), in the hospitality, accommodations and food, recreational, and service industries. The most affected industries by the plandemic. All with mostly low paying jobs. Not to mention that most other business have still not had their employees return back to the office environment, (Maryland government employees, being one, a majority of them still working from home), further exasperating the maintaining of low wages paid by business because of continually low demand for things that were once in high demand by those employees when they worked in offices, on top of dealing with supply disruptions and inflation across the board. Now sure, there are employers that pay more, and pay far more to attract skilled employees, filling those jobs, but you don't hear of those, only of the 'slackers' getting the extended unemployment benefits. Used to create division.

It is easy for us, many, to look at things through one's life's personal experiences, morality, work ethic, filter, and judge others in different circumstances thinking they are to blame and deserving of their lot in life. And while there are some, few, that deserve that blame and condemnation, the majority do not.

All the anger and hostility towards others, economically, is woefully misdirected. That anger and hostility should be directed at the root cause, our current fiat debt based monetary system being run by the for profit private banking cartels, and supported by their backers, defenders, benefactors, and enablers at all levels of government.
 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
If I may ...


It is not necessarily all about the minimum wage being discussed, which hasn't been raised on the federal level since, July 24, 2009. It is about low wages in general. The taking advantage of people. Before the forced plandemic lock downs, around 44% of US employees were being paid low wages, on average $10.22 an hour. There's a story of a fella, pre-plandemic, that was working for the Missoula Airport, servicing planes and aircraft on the tarmac performing deicing operations, among other duties, being paid a paltry $10.40hr for a critically important job. Who in their right mind would want go back to that, at that pay level for a very important and critical job that works to ensure the safety of flight for thousands of people? The media is touting all these so called unfilled jobs not being fulfilled by scofflaws, lazy people, and demeaning them, enforcing the idea to many that these people should work harder, sacrifice more, and play that narrative to those that have a so called good work ethic, and current well paying jobs, to look down upon those people who refuse to work as the scourge the media portrays. When it is the effect of the monetary policy in the Nation that is the root cause. The media is misdirecting purposefully by saying, "look over there, a squirrel".

Also, for employers, when paying wages, that are tied to also collecting employees deductions, Federal income taxes, State income taxes, matching Social Security and medicare contributions, health care premiums, sometimes dealing with wage garnishments set up by, then sent to, the courts, etc., and then forwarding them to the appropriate agencies, any increase in paying higher wages, increases far more for the employer than just a couple of dollar raise an hour to the employee. That same business that is fighting to keep their operating costs low in a highly inflationary environment.

Yes, originally, minimum wages were for those youngsters starting out in the work force as a restaurant server, cook, grocery bagger, sweeper or cleaner (gofer) on a construction site, or for those menial jobs that really required no learned skills such as digging a ditch, etc. (Not everyone, at any age, is suited for all lines of work). To learn how to deal and understand working for someone, what was expected of them, and develop a proper work ethic, or learn very quickly that certain behaviors are not tolerated by being fired. And at the same time while employed, working to better themselves by taking on more responsibility within whatever they were employed in, to better themselves, make themselves more valuable, or earn money to attend school or collage. Back when the dollar was pretty stable and still backed by gold, pre-1971.

But wages have not kept up with inflation, and in fact have regressed to the point to where today's minimum wage is sorely inadequate, (relative to the total money supply), accounting for inflation, had the Federal minimum wage kept pace with workers’ productivity since 1971, at $1.60hr, the inflation-adjusted minimum wage would be $24 an hour. And people wonder why they can't get ahead. And even with regular, (non-governmental forced), wage increases, raises, from employers, it is never enough for the employee to catch up to, or surpass the rate of inflation to get ahead. Because inflation is an ever increasing, month over month, year over year, phenomena.

What we are constantly being bombarded with by the complicit media, is the bottom wage earners are miscreants not doing their share by accepting all the low wage jobs supposedly being offered by the corporations, (a vast many of mom and pops and smaller businesses having been destroyed and shuttered by way of the plandemic never to return- who actually, on average, paid their employees more than corporations), in the hospitality, accommodations and food, recreational, and service industries. The most affected industries by the plandemic. All with mostly low paying jobs. Not to mention that most other business have still not had their employees return back to the office environment, (Maryland government employees, being one, a majority of them still working from home), further exasperating the maintaining of low wages paid by business because of continually low demand for things that were once in high demand by those employees when they worked in offices, on top of dealing with supply disruptions and inflation across the board. Now sure, there are employers that pay more, and pay far more to attract skilled employees, filling those jobs, but you don't hear of those, only of the 'slackers' getting the extended unemployment benefits. Used to create division.

It is easy for us, many, to look at things through one's life's personal experiences, morality, work ethic, filter, and judge others in different circumstances thinking they are to blame and deserving of their lot in life. And while there are some, few, that deserve that blame and condemnation, the majority do not.

All the anger and hostility towards others, economically, is woefully misdirected. That anger and hostility should be directed at the root cause, our current fiat debt based monetary system being run by the for profit private banking cartels, and supported by their backers, defenders, benefactors, and enablers at all levels of government.
Lol... I would suggest that you go and start a business and all that it intails and keep it profitable for a few years and get back to us...
Signed,
A dumba$$ welder...
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
All the anger and hostility towards others, economically, is woefully misdirected. That anger and hostility should be directed at the root cause, our current fiat debt based monetary system being run by the for profit private banking cartels, and supported by their backers, defenders, benefactors, and enablers at all levels of government.
And what I'm saying to you is that it's always been that way. Always. It's nothing new.

I also don't think people are "waking up". They are demonstrably dumber now than they ever have been. The only thing that's changed is that they're being told they shouldn't have to work, that "government" will give them money for "free", and because they're dumb they believe it. And as I said, that is historically called "welfare" and not considered a career goal.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
If I may ...


It is not necessarily all about the minimum wage being discussed, which hasn't been raised on the federal level since, July 24, 2009. It is about low wages in general. The taking advantage of people. Before the forced plandemic lock downs, around 44% of US employees were being paid low wages, on average $10.22 an hour.
I don't know where you get your numbers. The median wage in the United States is almost twice that.
Let's go with "median" which is different from "average", a number easily skewed by a non-bell shaped curve and very high incomes - "median" means, half are above, half below.

MEDIAN wage per hour is 19.33. It's mathematically impossible to get your figure, unless you take an AVERAGE of everything below the median, which is misleading to put it mildly. That IS however, close to the average wage for a fast food preparer.

Also - median wage per hour does not mean, full time.
MEDIAN household income is 69k.
MEDIAN income for full time women is 47k. For men, 57k.

Over a third of Americans make a salary over 100k.
Over half of ALL adults make between 50-150k.

If we want to break down income by IRS quintiles - there are a significant number of households whose paid income is very low, qualifying them as poor - however, most of them are well compensated by the government.

I'm not saying there's no poverty - it has hovered between 11-14% most of my life - but I am saying it's never as dire as the naysayers who wish to project the image of poverty. It's difficult to create a clear image of poverty the way it is portrayed on TV - for one, a significant portion of people do not REMAIN in poverty. It's fluid, just as the workforce working for minimum wage is - people leave it, and new people ENTER it.

The current problem with people refusing to re-enter the workforce is a simple one - people don't want to work when they make more money doing nothing. In states refusing federal unemployment money - people are going back to work.

Maybe it is true that a realignment of business in this country is necessary - I don't agree, but if IT IS - it's still a really bad idea to screw over all of the small businesses in this country just to make a point about wages. SCREW THEM OVER long enough - and there won't BE a job to return to.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
So much of the bogus "everyone deserves a living wage" argument completely ignores the economic reality of how slim the operating profit margins are for an incredibly large number of businesses. Reality wins over wishes every time.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Maybe it is true that a realignment of business in this country is necessary - I don't agree, but if IT IS - it's still a really bad idea to screw over all of the small businesses in this country just to make a point about wages. SCREW THEM OVER long enough - and there won't BE a job to return to.
You reminded me of something I wanted to point out:

The Left wants to hold small Mom & Pops to the same standard as Jeff Bezos, and those two entities couldn't be further apart. ****ing Joe Biden - "Oh, you, small restaurant owner, need to pay your people more!!" Because yeah, small business owners have piles of cash just laying around; they can TOTALLY pay $2 BILLION to bribe NASA.

At some point we'll all have to slave for these behemoth mega corps because the Democrats will have made it impossible for Regular Joes and Janes to operate their own business. They are systematically destroying any means of financial and labor independence in this country, to the wild applause of half of us who are functionally retarded. Big Corp pays these politicians good money to eradicate any competition. They are no different - NO different - than the Mafia demanding protection money.

It's so anti-American, completely devastating to our economy and way of life, that I can't believe we haven't put their heads on a pike yet.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

I don't know where you get your numbers. The median wage in the United States is almost twice that.
Let's go with "median" which is different from "average", a number easily skewed by a non-bell shaped curve and very high incomes - "median" means, half are above, half below.

MEDIAN wage per hour is 19.33. It's mathematically impossible to get your figure, unless you take an AVERAGE of everything below the median, which is misleading to put it mildly. That IS however, close to the average wage for a fast food preparer.

Also - median wage per hour does not mean, full time.
MEDIAN household income is 69k.
MEDIAN income for full time women is 47k. For men, 57k.

Over a third of Americans make a salary over 100k.
Over half of ALL adults make between 50-150k.

If we want to break down income by IRS quintiles - there are a significant number of households whose paid income is very low, qualifying them as poor - however, most of them are well compensated by the government.

I'm not saying there's no poverty - it has hovered between 11-14% most of my life - but I am saying it's never as dire as the naysayers who wish to project the image of poverty. It's difficult to create a clear image of poverty the way it is portrayed on TV - for one, a significant portion of people do not REMAIN in poverty. It's fluid, just as the workforce working for minimum wage is - people leave it, and new people ENTER it.

The current problem with people refusing to re-enter the workforce is a simple one - people don't want to work when they make more money doing nothing. In states refusing federal unemployment money - people are going back to work.

Maybe it is true that a realignment of business in this country is necessary - I don't agree, but if IT IS - it's still a really bad idea to screw over all of the small businesses in this country just to make a point about wages. SCREW THEM OVER long enough - and there won't BE a job to return to.
Oh ffs. The argument here is still within the operation of a debt based monetary system. It's all smoke and mirrors. Everything, no matter what side, or point, is argued, it all can be easily, by slight of hand, explained away. All by design. We the people of this Nation do not control our own currency, money, economic, system. Banks control and run our economy, and our government. That dollar bill in your pocket belongs to the frigging bank, not you.

Every economic woe, poverty, homelessness, wars, increasing costs of everything regardless of the efficiencies brought by scale, in this Nation, has been caused, and is being caused, by the private central banks that control our currency and our economy, and in this way control our government. Wake the eff up people. As I said before, all this angst, anger, turmoil, over people getting extra UI money should not be your focus. You are falling for the sheit they are feeding you causing divisiveness. Your energies should be focused on returning to a sound monetary system controlled by We the People as it is written in our Constitution.

The private banking cartels are waging war against you by deception! And you can't see it even when it is placed in front of your face.

 

black dog

Free America
PREMO Member
If I may ...


Oh ffs. The argument here is still within the operation of a debt based monetary system. It's all smoke and mirrors. Everything, no matter what side, or point, is argued, it all can be easily, by slight of hand, explained away. All by design. We the people of this Nation do not control our own currency, money, economic, system. Banks control and run our economy, and our government. That dollar bill in your pocket belongs to the frigging bank, not you.

Every economic woe, poverty, homelessness, wars, increasing costs of everything regardless of the efficiencies brought by scale, in this Nation, has been caused, and is being caused, by the private central banks that control our currency and our economy, and in this way control our government. Wake the eff up people. As I said before, all this angst, anger, turmoil, over people getting extra UI money should not be your focus. You are falling for the sheit they are feeding you causing divisiveness. Your energies should be focused on returning to a sound monetary system controlled by We the People as it is written in our Constitution.

The private banking cartels are waging war against you by deception! And you can't see it even when it is placed in front of your face.

What bullsh!t that is... If someone spends there entire pay checks on food and housing they need to rethink what they eat and where they sleep.
One should never stop improving their skill set to gain a larger payroll check...
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

And what I'm saying to you is that it's always been that way. Always. It's nothing new.

I also don't think people are "waking up". They are demonstrably dumber now than they ever have been. The only thing that's changed is that they're being told they shouldn't have to work, that "government" will give them money for "free", and because they're dumb they believe it. And as I said, that is historically called "welfare" and not considered a career goal.
No, it hasn't always been that way. This Nation at one time did in fact have a stable monetary system. But there is always this evil around to thwart our system. Why do you think the bankers want to replace Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill with Harriet Tubman? Because of the bankers continuing disdain for him when he followed through with his promise of the destruction of the National Bank in 1832, and also because they do not want the people to know the history of bankers financially raping, and their past attempts, of this Nation for centuries.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

What bullsh!t that is... If someone spends there entire pay checks on food and housing they need to rethink what they eat and where they sleep. One should never stop improving their skill set to gain a larger payroll check...
You're right. Someone's earnings purchasing power eroded by inflation and falling behind is the fault of the person not working hard enough to keep well ahead of future unknown expansion and manipulation of the money supply.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Top Progressives Say $15 Minimum Wage Is Too Low, Call For $26 Minimum Wage Instead



As originally noted by Foundation for Economic Education correspondent Brad Polumbo, online debate about the policy started with an August article from the progressive Center for Economic and Policy Research. Economist Dean Baker argued in the piece that the minimum wage ought to keep pace with overall economic productivity.


Having the minimum wage track productivity growth is not a crazy idea. The national minimum wage did in fact keep pace with productivity growth for the first 30 years after a national minimum wage first came into existence in 1938…
Think of what the country would look like if the lowest paying jobs, think of dishwashers or custodians, paid $26 an hour. That would mean someone who worked a 2000 hour year would have an annual income of $52,000. This income would put a single mother with two kids at well over twice the poverty level.
And, this is just for starting wages. Presumably workers would see their pay increase above the minimum as they stayed at their job for a number of years and ideally were promoted to better paying positions. If we assume that after 10 or 15 years their pay had risen by 20 percent, then these workers at the bottom of the pay ladder would be getting more than $60,000 a year.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
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