Abortion

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Gwydion

New Member
Cowgirl said:
I find it disgusting that you would drag this man's personal life (and such a delicate subject for him I'm sure) into a discussion that can be argued without dragging individuals' lives into it. :yay:
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If he didn't want it mentioned then he wouldn't have brought it up.
 
G

Gwydion

New Member
This_person said:
Actually, no it's not. I'm here to discuss abortion as a general topic, using scientific ideas of life and discussing the obligations mother and father have to their child, not my personal situation.

Did you run out of bad arguments?
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And that is what I am doing. So since it is living, if it is aborted, then it ceases to be living. Which is murder, correct?
 
Xaquin44

Xaquin44

New Member
Cowgirl said:
I find it disgusting that you would drag this man's personal life (and such a delicate subject for him I'm sure) into a discussion that can be argued without dragging individuals' lives into it. :yay:
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he's posted it a bunch of times before.

I just remembered it.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
pcjohnnyb said:
How is this so hard for you?
Besides you being pro-no-choice and all?
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I'm pro-choice. That choice being whether or not to procreate, not whether or not to kill babies. I'm against killing babies. Are you pro- or against- killing babies?
It's very simple.
Fetus: If birthed at that moment, could not even live off of machinery, prior to 5 months (earliest).
Actual person: can at least be kept alive by machinery if an organ fails.
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Well, "at that moment"? Why "at that moment"? There would have to be some sort of artificial inducement of labor to cause that to happen, wouldn't there? Otherwise, I believe it would be a spontaneous miscarriage, which is far, far, far different from intentionally killing the child.

So, that argument makes no sense. You're suggesting that it's okay to kill something, because if you were to intentionally cause it's death it would die.
 
Beta84

Beta84

They're out to get us
Gwydion said:
And that is what I am doing. So since it is living, if it is aborted, then it ceases to be living. Which is murder, correct?
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It's not defined as murder by the law book, so i'm gonna go with incorrect. Unless you can point me to someone who's been prosecuted for aborting a fetus.
 
puggymom

puggymom

Active Member
This_person said:
This is where my moral side kicks in and I want to argue that mother and father are equally responsible to that child and neither should be able to singly walk away from their responsibility. However, as we've both agreed, morals should not play into laws and societal rules.

If the father has the right to choose to abandon his child, that takes him out of play for consideration.

However, it does not still take out the child. Did you read my definition of life posted previously? The embryonic view, from a developmental biology text - not the dictionary.com one? What did you think of that?
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I'll be honsest I did not read it but because I have never stated that I personally did not believe a zygote/embryo/fetus was a human life from my POV. My issue is weighing the rights of the woman, an actual person with the rights of a fetus, a potential person.
 
theArtistFormerlyKnownAs

theArtistFormerlyKnownAs

Well-Known Member
This_person said:
I'm pro-choice. That choice being whether or not to procreate, not whether or not to kill babies. I'm against killing babies. Are you pro- or against- killing babies?Well, "at that moment"? Why "at that moment"? There would have to be some sort of artificial inducement of labor to cause that to happen, wouldn't there? Otherwise, I believe it would be a spontaneous miscarriage, which is far, far, far different from intentionally killing the child.

So, that argument makes no sense. You're suggesting that it's okay to kill something, because if you were to intentionally cause it's death it would die.
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I will now refer to you as, "Brick Wall".
 
Beta84

Beta84

They're out to get us
Gwydion said:
And what is the definition of murder?
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murder is a crime that, in the united states, is punishable by prison or death. Abortion doesn't fall under this definition.

Better yet, here is a definition i just found online:

Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
 
puggymom

puggymom

Active Member
toppick08 said:
When the sperm hits the egg.......it's human...:yay:
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Of course it is human, as opposed to let's say canine. But does it deserve equal rights and protection under the law...and by doing such superseding the rights and protections of the woman making her a second class citizen.
 
T

toppick08

Guest
puggymom said:
Of course it is human, as opposed to let's say canine. But does it deserve equal rights and protection under the law...and by doing such superseding the rights and protections of the woman making her a second class citizen.
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yes..you don't murder a dog.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
puggymom said:
I'll be honsest I did not read it but because I have never stated that I personally did not believe a zygote/embryo/fetus was a human life from my POV. My issue is weighing the rights of the woman, an actual person with the rights of a fetus, a potential person.
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I understand your POV on this, and I think that the weight of rights has to consider who is responsible for whom. The child took no actions to become even a potential person - it was mother and father. IMHO, they are both responsible to see that life through until it can survive on it's own, THEN they have the choice to keep responsibility for that life or turn their responsibility over.

This is why I have a legal/scientific view of a raped mother that is different from my moral view on it. She did not take any action to risk becoming pregnant, either, so I have to give some weight to that concept.
 
theArtistFormerlyKnownAs

theArtistFormerlyKnownAs

Well-Known Member
Xaquin44 said:
now ask him about In Vitro and watch his 'logic' explode.
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I've got an even better one.
So, lets say my point about viability is invalid in determining "life".
We all agree that a fetus is classified as a parasite, correct? Last time I checked, a person can have a parasite removed from them by a doctor. After that, the parasite isn't kept alive by medical treatment, because there is no reason...but lets say that they operate, remove the parasite (fetus), and let it fend for itself...like any other parasite.
If it lives, hoorah...someone that wants it can have it, if not...:shrug: it was just a parasite.
 
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