Absolute Truth

[ewashkow]

I think I posted a reply in another thread that I should have brought up here.

Mominsmc posted: I totally agree. As soon as they stopped teaching morals and values and absolute truth in school (back in the late 1800's) the downward spiral started happening. Our founding fathers knew that without morals and religion man could not survive and the country would fall apart. (If you don't believe me read their own writings and see.) I really think that is what is happening today. Until we turn back to God and start teaching virtue and morals we will slowly decay as a nation.

The line that got me was the one involving absolute truth. So I asked her to define "absolute truth" since I have been told many times by many different people of many different beliefs that what I believe is wrong.

Here is what I believe.
1. I believe in God.
2. I believe there is a heaven and a hell.
3. I believe that heaven can be many different things to many different people. It can be the happiest moment of your life and you are in that moment for eternity. It can be as an angel-any type, take your pick. It can also be you want to be reincarnated for another life.
4. I believe that hell isn't fire and brimstone. Hell is the worst moment of your life and you are there for an eternity. To me, that would be hell. Not having my soul burn for an eternity because I broke one of the 10 commandments-one of which I do on almost a daily basis (THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.').

So, I pose this question to everyone who cares to answer. What is absolute truth?

And, no, I am not asking to be a jerk. I just want to know how many different versions of absolute truth people have.

 

[Xaquin44]

I rather doubt any of us will ever know absolute truth, and even if we did, we'd still look for flaws.

 

[Starman3000m]

I think I posted a reply in another thread that I should have brought up here.

Mominsmc posted: I totally agree. As soon as they stopped teaching morals and values and absolute truth in school (back in the late 1800's) the downward spiral started happening. Our founding fathers knew that without morals and religion man could not survive and the country would fall apart. (If you don't believe me read their own writings and see.) I really think that is what is happening today. Until we turn back to God and start teaching virtue and morals we will slowly decay as a nation.

The line that got me was the one involving absolute truth. So I asked her to define "absolute truth" since I have been told many times by many different people of many different beliefs that what I believe is wrong.

Here is what I believe.
1. I believe in God.
2. I believe there is a heaven and a hell.
3. I believe that heaven can be many different things to many different people. It can be the happiest moment of your life and you are in that moment for eternity. It can be as an angel-any type, take your pick. It can also be you want to be reincarnated for another life.
4. I believe that hell isn't fire and brimstone. Hell is the worst moment of your life and you are there for an eternity. To me, that would be hell. Not having my soul burn for an eternity because I broke one of the 10 commandments-one of which I do on almost a daily basis (THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.').

So, I pose this question to everyone who cares to answer. What is absolute truth?

And, no, I am not asking to be a jerk. I just want to know how many different versions of absolute truth people have.

What do you believe about Yeshua (New Testament Jesus) who said:

"I Am The Way The Truth And The Life, No Man Can Come Unto The Father Except Through Me." (John 14:6)

If you believe in God - Do you believe Jesus Was The Divine Son of God.

That is where Truth begins.

 

[Xaquin44]

What do you believe about Yeshua (New Testament Jesus) who said:

"I Am The Way The Truth And The Life, No Man Can Come Unto The Father Except Through Me." (John 14:6)

If you believe in God - Do you believe Jesus Was The Divine Son of God.

That is where Truth begins.

truth can be proven. that is where faith begins.

edit: well not all truth can be proven .... I mean some deeds etc. have to be confessed to to be proven, but short of god sauntering on down and saying 'hey', there is no way to prove he's here.

 

[Starman3000m]

truth can be proven. that is where faith begins.

Yeshua's Teachings, Miracles, Death and Resurrection were visible proof to those who witnessed the accounts and from which we read of in the New Testament. Placing Faith in Yeshua will also result in visible and spiritual proofs that exemplify God's Truth.

 

[Xaquin44]

Yeshua's Teachings, Miracles, Death and Resurrection were visible proof to those who witnessed the accounts and from which we read of in the New Testament. Placing Faith in Yeshua will also result in visible and spiritual proofs that exemplify God's Truth.

You'll pardon me if I don't take for granted the writings of people who thought the earth was flat.

Also, writing something does not, by any means or logic, make it true.

 

[ewashkow]

To be quite honest with you, I have trouble believing most of what the bible has written. There are so many different versions, written by so many different people that I wonder what might have been lost or omitted during translations.

But yes, I do believe that Jesus was God's son.

 

[Marie]

To be quite honest with you, I have trouble believing most of what the bible has written. There are so many different versions, written by so many different people that I wonder what might have been lost or omitted during translations.

But yes, I do believe that Jesus was God's son.

Hi Actually there are only two differnt text of wich all the modern bibles are dervied from. The old testament is the same in all and then the new testament there are Alexandrian, Byzantine. The differences between the two would not impact what you believe in as Biblical truth. Thus you get the devide over the King James and NIV. All the Bibles out there are one of the two varriants. If I say to you Jesus is Lord or the Lord Jesus you take both to mean the same. Then you have

1. Literal translation. Attempts to keep the exact words and phrases of the original. It is faithful to the original text, but sometimes hard to understand. Keeps a constant historical distance. Examples: King James, New American Standard.
2. Dynamic equivalent translation. Attempts to keep a constant historical distance with regard to history and facts, but updates the writing style and grammar. Example: New International Version (NIV), New English Bible.
3. Free translation (paraphrase). Translates the ideas from the original text but without being constrained by the original words or language. Seeks to eliminate historical distance. Readable, but not always exact because interpretation depends upon the translators. Example: Contemporary English Version (CEV), "The Message."

Bottom line is you get the same material in all but the third is less desirable The Message was created by Ugene Petterson for his Grand Kids so they could get it at there level.


I would Strongly recomend taking the Truth Project, hosted at Cornorstone and various churches as it talks about how your world view defines you and gets to the buttom of what is truth.

 

[Larry Gude]

Well...

I As soon as they stopped teaching morals and values and absolute truth in school (back in the late 1800's) the downward spiral started happening. Our founding fathers knew that without morals and religion man could not survive and the country would fall apart. (If you don't believe me read their own writings and see.) I really think that is what is happening today. Until we turn back to God and start teaching virtue and morals we will slowly decay as a nation.

The line that got me was the one involving absolute truth. So I asked her to define "absolute truth" since I have been told many times by many different people of many different beliefs that what I believe is wrong.

Here is what I believe.
1. I believe in God.
2. I believe there is a heaven and a hell.
3. I believe that heaven can be many different things to many different people. It can be the happiest moment of your life and you are in that moment for eternity. It can be as an angel-any type, take your pick. It can also be you want to be reincarnated for another life.
4. I believe that hell isn't fire and brimstone. Hell is the worst moment of your life and you are there for an eternity. To me, that would be hell. Not having my soul burn for an eternity because I broke one of the 10 commandments-one of which I do on almost a daily basis (THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.').

So, I pose this question to everyone who cares to answer. What is absolute truth?

And, no, I am not asking to be a jerk. I just want to know how many different versions of absolute truth people have.

...before we get to 'absolute truth' let's examine your theory about the timeline, late 1800's, the end of virtue and morals, the founders and their writings and the downward spiral, shall we?

Do you think any of them were sent to hell by God and, if so, why?

Specifically, when morals and virtue were taught, did people still do things that qualified them for hell?

Even more specifically, did enslaving another human being doom a person to hell? Why or why not?

If not, what do virtue-less and immoral people do today that is worse than owning another human being?

If it is an absolute truth that things were better spiritually and morally back in the day, can you see how objections might be raised in comparing today as worse and on what basis?

Lastly, the Bible, as I understand it, accepts slavery. Doesn't that mean that either God approves of slavery or, if He does not, doesn't that mean the Bible is mans interpretation of His word and, thus, virtue and morality based on mans interpretation can not be absolute truth?

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

So, I pose this question to everyone who cares to answer. What is absolute truth?

There is no "absolute truth" as there is only "truth" and no more.

Trying to sieze an "absolute truth" is equivalent to wanting to put God under a microscope.

 

[Roughidle]

There is no "absolute truth" as there is only "truth" and no more. Trying to sieze an "absolute truth" is equivalent to wanting to put God under a microscope.

"Truth" in itself is absolute. It cannot be altered, only hidden or ignored.

 

[This_person]

"Truth" in itself is absolute. It cannot be altered, only hidden or ignored.

Ignoring truths is Jimmy's strong point.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

"Truth" in itself is absolute. It cannot be altered, only hidden or ignored.

The Apostle Paul gave an example when Paul declared that God "cannot lie" per Titus 1:2, link HERE.

God cannot lie is seen as a "truth" and could be deemed an "absolute truth" except some people say that God could lie if God wanted to, and therefore it is not a correct statement at all - not even true, and yet it is true.

The fact (in religion) is that if God did lie then He would be sinning and thus God would die because the wages of sin is death link HERE even death for God if He sins.

So a truth of God could be altered if we equate things on a human level, and if not then it could be deemed as an "absolute" truth that God can not lie because it is never going to happen.

There is also the position that in a situation that God says some thing which at first was not true but since God says it then it instantly becomes true just because His word is absolute as in the creation per Genesis 1:3 link HERE "Let there be light" and there was light.

So when God says some thing untrue it simply becomes true and thus never a lie.

 

[Roughidle]

What was true yesterday remains true for yesterday but may not be what is true today or tomorrow. Yet what is true is absolute.
How does that scramble yer omelet.

 

[ewashkow]

...before we get to 'absolute truth' let's examine your theory about the timeline, late 1800's, the end of virtue and morals, the founders and their writings and the downward spiral, shall we?

Do you think any of them were sent to hell by God and, if so, why?

Specifically, when morals and virtue were taught, did people still do things that qualified them for hell?

Even more specifically, did enslaving another human being doom a person to hell? Why or why not?

If not, what do virtue-less and immoral people do today that is worse than owning another human being?

If it is an absolute truth that things were better spiritually and morally back in the day, can you see how objections might be raised in comparing today as worse and on what basis?

Lastly, the Bible, as I understand it, accepts slavery. Doesn't that mean that either God approves of slavery or, if He does not, doesn't that mean the Bible is mans interpretation of His word and, thus, virtue and morality based on mans interpretation can not be absolute truth?

Are you asking me(ewashkow) these questions or the person who I quoted(mominsmc) who was talking about the 1800's and absolute truth?

 

[Larry Gude]

I must have...

Are you asking me(ewashkow) these questions or the person who I quoted(mominsmc) who was talking about the 1800's and absolute truth?

...misread what was you, what was someone else and where it all comes together, so, just for conversations sake, anyone who wants to jump in.

 

[ItalianScallion]

There is no "absolute truth" as there is only "truth" and no more...

Where are you from, Neptune? God and His Word ARE absolute truth. If there was no absolute truth then NO ONE could make any statements, right or wrong, because there is no standard with which to compare them to.

 

[ItalianScallion]

To be quite honest with you, I have trouble believing most of what the bible has written. There are so many different versions, written by so many different people that I wonder what might have been lost or omitted during translations. But yes, I do believe that Jesus was God's son.

Don't let that deter you friend. That is what proves that the Bible is CLEARLY from God. The fact that it was written by @ 40 different people from many different countries, backgrounds, time periods and languages and yet they all speak the same "essential" message: Salvation through belief in the one true God. Nothing was omitted or lost or else God wouldn't be all powerful. The version problem is mostly a variation in the language at the time it was printed. The KJV was done when people spoke Shakespearean English and the NIV was a much needed version of the changing English language of the 20th century. Some are less understandable than others and some are too liberal in their wording but all of the "contending" Bibles clearly teach the salvation message which is the main point anyhow.

 

[foodcritic]

Not that complicated

To be quite honest with you, I have trouble believing most of what the bible has written. There are so many different versions, written by so many different people that I wonder what might have been lost or omitted during translations.

But yes, I do believe that Jesus was God's son.

Don't be dismayed by diffrent versions. Most "versions" are an attempt to make a readable Bible translation. Since we do not read Greek it makes sense to "translate" to our own language. This is not a simple task. It is quite complicated really. Imagine trying to translate greek to chinese for example. It's impossible to translate a word for word from Greek to another language becasue of definitions and in some cases the language does not even have words to translate to. Each translation gives up some thing to make it readable. The only perfect text was written by the original writers . These texts were copied almost exactly and they were compared to the same texts that were found in other places. This confirmed there authenticity for the most part. This is much to read about this topic.

 

[foodcritic]

Truth=

Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines truth this way:


TRUTH, n.


1. Conformity to fact or reality; exact accordance with that which is, or has been, or shall be. The truth of history constitutes its whole value. We rely on the truth of the scriptural prophecies.

My mouth shall speak truth. Prov.8.

Sanctify them through thy truth; thy word is truth. John. 17.

2. True state of facts or things. The duty of a court of justice is to discover the truth. Witnesses are sworn to declare the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

3. Conformity of words to thoughts, which is called moral truth.

Shall truth fail to keep her word?

4. Veracity; purity from falsehood; practice of speaking truth; habitual disposition to speak truth; as when we say, a man is a man of truth.

5. Correct opinion.

6. Fidelity; constancy.

The thoughts of past pleasure and truth.

7. Honesty; virtue.

It must appear

That malice bears down truth.

8. Exactness; conformity to rule.

Plows, to go true, depend much on the truth of the iron work. [Not in use.]

9. Real fact of just principle; real state of things. There are innumerable truths with which we are not acquainted.
10. Sincerity.


God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. John 4.
11. The truth of God, is his veracity and faithfulness. Ps.71.


Or his revealed will.

I have walked in thy truth. Ps.26.
12. Jesus Christ is called the truth. John 14.

13. It is sometimes used by way of concession.


She said, truth, Lord; yet the dogs eat of the crums-- Matt 15.

That is, it is a truth; what you have said, I admit to be true.

In truth, in reality; in fact.

Of a truth, in reality; certainly.
To do truth, is to practice what God commands. John 3.