Absolute Truth

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

So I guess you changed your mind from when you wrote this:

No, we might still use the term of "absolute" but it is my point that the concept of there must be an "absolute truth" is not real.

Of course if some others can not understand the simple truths and keep demanding some "absolutes" then I will play along as I try to respect those that are less learned.

The words "absolute truth" is not the problem - it is the concept that is wrong.

I like that one: "Incorrect truths". What is that exactly, anyway? :shrug:

We have incorrect truths all around, being some are convinced of certain truths and being completely wrong.

I give others the benefit of believing them as they are honestly wrong and thus their truths are incorrect.

 

[Giantone]

No, we might still use the term of "absolute" but it is my point that the concept of there must be an "absolute truth" is not real.

Of course if some others can not understand the simple truths and keep demanding some "absolutes" then I will play along as I try to respect those that are less learned.

The words "absolute truth" is not the problem - it is the concept that is wrong.

We have incorrect truths all around, being some are convinced of certain truths and being completely wrong.

I give others the benefit of believing them as they are honestly wrong and thus their truths are incorrect.

........you're an idiot.

 

[PsyOps]

:We have incorrect truths all around, being some are convinced of certain truths and being completely wrong.

I give others the benefit of believing them as they are honestly wrong and thus their truths are incorrect.

I can’t believe I even have to write this… If something is incorrect it is not the truth.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

I can’t believe I even have to write this… If something is incorrect it is not the truth.

Well many people hold "truths" that are completely wrong.

Iraq having weapons of mass destruction - not.

People burning in a Hell under our loving Father God - NOT.

Perhaps the pompous claim to "absolute truths" is just a way of refusing to face the simple truths that tell persons that they are wrong.

 

[PsyOps]

Well many people hold "truths" that are completely wrong.

Iraq having weapons of mass destruction - not.

People burning in a Hell under our loving Father God - NOT.

Perhaps the pompous claim to "absolute truths" is just a way of refusing to face the simple truths that tell persons that they are wrong.

Well you are oblivious to anything you've even said. As I provided before, you wrote:

Some hard truths are absolute but most truths are not.

This is YOUR statement claiming there are absolute truths. Now you are saying it is pompous to believe this. I can only surmise that you are a pompous individual, but only on certain occasions that support your point (whatever that is).

Point being, you have no solid stance on anything. You take whatever stance will support your argument for the moment.

Truth: Saddam Hussein DID have WMD. He admitted to a CIA interrogator that he destroyed them all but lied to all of us making us believe he did. He also admitted that is had full intentions of reconstituting his WMD arsenal.

Lie: Insinuating that Bush lied about this.

Truth: IF you believe in the Bible (which I don't believe you do) then you know that the second death means that some will be sent to the "Lake of Fire" to suffer in eternity. But you have to believe what the Bible says about this; which you don't.

Bottom line for you JPC... whichever way the JPC wind blows for the moment is the where JPC goes.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Well you are oblivious to anything you've even said. As I provided before, you wrote:

This is YOUR statement claiming there are absolute truths.

The tread and the question is about the claim to "absolute truth" and that is what I was refering to.

The word "absolute" is fine by me as if it were snowing outside then it is absolutely snowing.

But the question is about a religious concept termed as being "absolute truths" and it is like saying "Truth" with a capital "T" link HERE.

So claiming your truth is absolute and the truths of others is not absolute, does not quite add up.

Therefore I can refer to "absolute truths" while me being tolerant of others.

 

[PsyOps]

The tread and the question is about the claim to "absolute truth" and that is what I was refering to.

The word "absolute" is fine by me as if it were snowing outside then it is absolutely snowing.

But the question is about a religious concept termed as being "absolute truths" and it is like saying "Truth" with a capital "T" link HERE.

So claiming your truth is absolute and the truths of others is not absolute, does not quite add up.

Therefore I can refer to "absolute truths" while me being tolerant of others.

You're only proving my point. You wrote earlier that believing in an "absolute truth" is "pompous", now you are saying it's okay with you. You're all over the place. You have no real foundation for what you believe.

I don't claim there is any such thing as an absolute truth. I have always maintained there is just simply the truth. I'm just trying to point out your complete hypocrisy on every subject you debate. You're only purpose is to stir the pot. Not enlighten anyone to the truth or the facts, but just disagree and stir the pot. Whatever point will get you there, you make.

And that's the absolute truth!

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You're only proving my point. You wrote earlier that believing in an "absolute truth" is "pompous", now you are saying it's okay with you. You're all over the place. You have no real foundation for what you believe.

I don't claim there is any such thing as an absolute truth. I have always maintained there is just simply the truth. I'm just trying to point out your complete hypocrisy on every subject you debate. You're only purpose is to stir the pot. Not enlighten anyone to the truth or the facts, but just disagree and stir the pot. Whatever point will get you there, you make.

And that's the absolute truth!

Well then we agree with each other on this.

I am pleased and proud of my flexibility in discussions and in beliefs.

I see the opposite of flexibility as being "inflexibility" and that as being the result of claiming and believing in "absolute truths" because that is what the inflexible narrow minded ones do as they stick to their one side claims.

When it snows then "it is snowing" and that is an absolute truth but when the snow stop it is no longer truth at all.

The great tree that refuses to bend will snap just by the blowing of wind.

There is simply the truth and it is flexible, so we do agree even if I do stir the pot anyway.

 

[PsyOps]

Well then we agree with each other on this.

I am pleased and proud of my flexibility in discussions and in beliefs.

I see the opposite of flexibility as being "inflexibility" and that as being the result of claiming and believing in "absolute truths" because that is what the inflexible narrow minded ones do as they stick to their one side claims.

When it snows then "it is snowing" and that is an absolute truth but when the snow stop it is no longer truth at all.

The great tree that refuses to bend will snap just by the blowing of wind.

There is simply the truth and it is flexible, so we do agree even if I do stir the pot anyway.

You don't seeem to know the difference between being flexible and not having firm principles.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

You don't seeem to know the difference between being flexible and not having firm principles.

And I suppose no matter how many times I keep trying to bring us back to the subject of "absolute truth" that you are just not going to go there.

 

[PsyOps]

And I suppose no matter how many times I keep trying to bring us back to the subject of "absolute truth" that you are just not going to go there.

Here is the "absolute truth"... The reason I don't go there is because it's impossible to discuss it with someone that manipulates the truth to suit his purpose.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Here is the "absolute truth"... The reason I don't go there is because it's impossible to discuss it with someone that manipulates the truth to suit his purpose.

The truth is flexible as it is like a two edged sword that cuts both ways, link HERE.

This is the point of persons trying to demand one and only one "absolute truth" because they are narrow minded and want to dictate to others and to put God into their own limitations.

We all try to do it, and I tried to do it, but the honest people will give up that quest for "absolution" and accept the simple truths for what they are.

People must learn to accept our own shortcomings and our failings as being part of our own truths.

 

[PsyOps]

The truth is flexible as it is like a two edged sword that cuts both ways, link HERE.

This is the point of persons trying to demand one and only one "absolute truth" because they are narrow minded and want to dictate to others and to put God into their own limitations.

We all try to do it, and I tried to do it, but the honest people will give up that quest for "absolution" and accept the simple truths for what they are.

People must learn to accept our own shortcomings and our failings as being part of our own truths.

Give me an example where the truth is "flexible"?

 

[fredcaudle]

Is there absolute truth?

Is it ever right to rape someone... answer no, therefore Absolute truth is rape is wrong.
Is it is ever right to be angry with someone and so lie in wait for them to return home and kill them (premeditated)... answer no. Therefore Absolute truth - murder is wrong.

Do people disagree on religions? Answer: yes. Therefore it is absolutely true people do not agree on religion.

Absolute truth?
"there is no absolute truth" - really, then this statement is not true... and anything said is not true... but, then since there is no truth - that would not be true either...

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Give me an example where the truth is "flexible"?

Link HERE, and in this world the speed limit is 55 (that truth) but it is flexible.

 

[PsyOps]

Link HERE, and in this world the speed limit is 55 (that truth) but it is flexible.

The only "flexibility" in this is the police allow you to speed. They allow you to subvert the law. That does not detract from the TRUTH that the speed limit is 55. Because someone allows you to get away with breaking the law doesn't mean you didn't break the law.

Your link is nothing more than more . As usual, you're all over the place. God can lie except when he speaks it, then it becomes the truth, but at first it's a lie, unless it comes from God then it becomes the truth. So therefore a lie is the truth so therefore a lie, but also the truth. That's basically what I get out of that.

And that's the truth

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

The only "flexibility" in this is the police allow you to speed. They allow you to subvert the law. That does not detract from the TRUTH that the speed limit is 55. Because someone allows you to get away with breaking the law doesn't mean you didn't break the law.

That is what makes the law flexible in that the law enforcer (the police / and God) do not enforce the laws.

Therefore the speed limit is like the ten commandments in that the laws are not enforced by the law giver.

So the ten commandments are truths and could be seen as "absolute laws" but the reality is that the ten commandments are now flexible because people break them often and there is forgiveness for breaking the commands and the punishment is paid for by Jesus in full.

So the "truths" of the commandments are still "true" but they are not absolute because they are flexible so that some people must comply to the commands and others do not.

Your link is nothing more than more . As usual, you're all over the place. God can lie except when he speaks it, then it becomes the truth, but at first it's a lie, unless it comes from God then it becomes the truth. So therefore a lie is the truth so therefore a lie, but also the truth. That's basically what I get out of that.

And that's the truth

It was the Apostle Paul that said that God can not lie, and so that debate is against Paul more-so then mine.

Perhaps the Apostle Paul did not mean those words as a "truth" or as an "absolute truth" but just a random comment in a letter to a friend.

 

[PsyOps]

That is what makes the law flexible in that the law enforcer (the police / and God) do not enforce the laws.

Therefore the speed limit is like the ten commandments in that the laws are not enforced by the law giver.

So the ten commandments are truths and could be seen as "absolute laws" but the reality is that the ten commandments are now flexible because people break them often and there is forgiveness for breaking the commands and the punishment is paid for by Jesus in full.

So the "truths" of the commandments are still "true" but they are not absolute because they are flexible so that some people must comply to the commands and others do not.

This is just another example of you manipulating facts and God’s Word to suit your own purpose. The law is not flexible. The people that are charged with enforcing it are. The law is just what it is… the LAW. When the sign is posted 55 mph THAT is what the limit of your speed is supposed to be. Morally (as God sees it) it is your Christian duty to obey that speed limit. If you decided not to obey it, and a cop doesn’t pull you over, this does not mean aren’t disobeying that law. You are still in moral breach of that law.

Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves... Romans 13:1-2

Be subject to every human institution for the Lord's sake, whether it be to the king as supreme or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the approval of those who do good. For it is the will of God that by doing good you may silence the ignorance of foolish people. Be free, yet without using freedom as a pretext for evil, but as slaves of God. Give honor to all, love the community, fear God, honor the king... 1 Peter 2:13-17

The 10 Commandments are enforced by “the giver”, who is God. He will hold you accountable for not obeying His commandments. The forgiveness of these sins (of breaking God’s commandments) does not means it’s okay to continue breaking His commandments. You have so twisted this around so that you can continue your defiance of the law that you can’t even recognize the moral obligation you have in obeying the law and God’s commands as such.

You can’t even understand what it is you are trying to say… The commandments are true but not absolute? Some must comply but others do not? That’s the biggest fallacy I’ve seen from you yet. We ALL MUST obey God’s law. Not some… ALL. Does this mean we do? Absolutely not. The difference is, are you making a conscience effort to violate the law for your own selfish purposes (having the “it’s okay, God will forgive me” mentality) or do you sometimes make mistakes and stumble. You and God know where your heart is. THAT is where the sin lies, not in the actual act of breaking the law, but where your heart is.

Next you are going to tell me it’s just you that doesn’t have to obey because you have some higher purpose to question both our laws and God’s law.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

This is just another example of you manipulating facts and God’s Word to suit your own purpose. The law is not flexible. The people that are charged with enforcing it are. The law is just what it is… the LAW. When the sign is posted 55 mph THAT is what the limit of your speed is supposed to be. Morally (as God sees it) it is your Christian duty to obey that speed limit. If you decided not to obey it, and a cop doesn’t pull you over, this does not mean aren’t disobeying that law. You are still in moral breach of that law.

The 10 Commandments are enforced by “the giver”, who is God. He will hold you accountable for not obeying His commandments. The forgiveness of these sins (of breaking God’s commandments) does not means it’s okay to continue breaking His commandments. You have so twisted this around so that you can continue your defiance of the law that you can’t even recognize the moral obligation you have in obeying the law and God’s commands as such.

You can’t even understand what it is you are trying to say… The commandments are true but not absolute? Some must comply but others do not? That’s the biggest fallacy I’ve seen from you yet. We ALL MUST obey God’s law. Not some… ALL. Does this mean we do? Absolutely not. The difference is, are you making a conscience effort to violate the law for your own selfish purposes (having the “it’s okay, God will forgive me” mentality) or do you sometimes make mistakes and stumble. You and God know where your heart is. THAT is where the sin lies, not in the actual act of breaking the law, but where your heart is.

Next you are going to tell me it’s just you that doesn’t have to obey because you have some higher purpose to question both our laws and God’s law.

The question is if it were a "truth" or an "absolute truth" and I believe we are in agreement that it is simply "truth" and not "absolute".

Another example is the existance of God.

Since many of us see God as a fact and even as a proven "truth" while others challenge that truth.

So I say that if God wanted that to be an absolute truth then it would be so.

 

[PsyOps]

The question is if it were a "truth" or an "absolute truth" and I believe we are in agreement that it is simply "truth" and not "absolute".

Another example is the existance of God.

Since many of us see God as a fact and even as a proven "truth" while others challenge that truth.

So I say that if God wanted that to be an absolute truth then it would be so.

Ummmmm... yeah. Whatever you just said.