Absolute Truth

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Ummmmm... yeah. Whatever you just said.

:shrug: So are you implying (since you said nothing),

that your version of truth is the only truth?

and that the truths of others that are different then your truths are not true?

or yes the other people have truths of their own that happen to be different?

Those are the questions - like do you see your own truths as being absolutely true? and yours as the only truth?

Mine are flexible.

 

[PsyOps]

:shrug: So are you implying (since you said nothing),

that your version of truth is the only truth?

and that the truths of others that are different then your truths are not true?

or yes the other people have truths of their own that happen to be different?

Those are the questions - like do you see your own truths as being absolutely true? and yours as the only truth?

Mine are flexible.

Since you seem to have many versions of the truth, how could you possible know?

 

[Marie]

:shrug: So are you implying (since you said nothing),

that your version of truth is the only truth?

and that the truths of others that are different then your truths are not true?

or yes the other people have truths of their own that happen to be different?

Those are the questions - like do you see your own truths as being absolutely true? and yours as the only truth?

Mine are flexible.

Those who say that there are no absolutes are often very adamant about their belief. If they say that they are absolutely sure, then they are wrong because their own statement is an absolute. If they are not 100 percent sure, then there is a chance that they are wrong and they are risking their eternal salvation by trusting in a wrong belief. God tells us that there is an objective, absolute truth that is not subject to man’s interpretations or whims, on which we can base our eternity. That truth is the Word of God (John 17:7).

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Those who say that there are no absolutes are often very adamant about their belief. If they say that they are absolutely sure, then they are wrong because their own statement is an absolute. If they are not 100 percent sure, then there is a chance that they are wrong and they are risking their eternal salvation by trusting in a wrong belief. God tells us that there is an objective, absolute truth that is not subject to man’s interpretations or whims, on which we can base our eternity. That truth is the Word of God (John 17:7).

When I give my beliefs then I give the possibility of error too.

I believe firmly through much research that the Orthodox version of a "Hell" is completely false and everyone gets saved.

But I say and have said that - if I am not correct - then I will defy that monster tyrant of a God if that Orthodoxy is our true fate.

So I use the double edged sword too, as I cut both ways against the evil.

 

[PsyOps]

When I give my beliefs then I give the possibility of error too.

Now here's something we can agree on.

But I say and have said that - if I am not correct - then I will defy that monster tyrant of a God if that Orthodoxy is our true fate.

So I use the double edged sword too, as I cut both ways against the evil.

Are you saying there is possibility that God is evil?

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Are you saying there is possibility that God is evil?

The so-called God that burns people in fire for all eternity is indeed evil,

but that is the false God of Orthodox creation and not the God of the Bible.

The concept of burning people in fire (Hell) is a man-made violent ideology, and if there were such an evil tyrant God then I would defy him to the pits of his Hell.

I do not really agree that the possibility of that evil God existing, but since other people believe in that evil version of a God then I give my reply that if their evil does God exist then I will defy it.

 

[PsyOps]

The so-called God that burns people in fire for all eternity is indeed evil,

but that is the false God of Orthodox creation and not the God of the Bible.

The concept of burning people in fire (Hell) is a man-made violent ideology, and if there were such an evil tyrant God then I would defy him to the pits of his Hell.

I do not really agree that the possibility of that evil God existing, but since other people believe in that evil version of a God then I give my reply that if their evil does God exist then I will defy it.

Rewriting the Bible. You must feel pretty good about having such authority. Can't wait to see what you rewrite when you get a Congressional seat.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Rewriting the Bible. You must feel pretty good about having such authority. Can't wait to see what you rewrite when you get a Congressional seat.

I am not re-writing the Bible - it is re-writing the wrong interpretations of Orthodoxy.

I show how "hell" only means the common grave for dead bodies, and that is not changing the Bible - it is correcting the wrong of Orthodoxy.

We all have the authority to chose right and to reject wrongs.

And if I go to the US Congress then I will correct the wrongs there too.

 

[PsyOps]

I am not re-writing the Bible - it is re-writing the wrong interpretations of Orthodoxy.

I show how "hell" only means the common grave for dead bodies, and that is not changing the Bible - it is correcting the wrong of Orthodoxy.

We all have the authority to chose right and to reject wrongs.

And if I go to the US Congress then I will correct the wrongs there too.

Look, folks call it hell because that is the term they use. Call it whatever you want: hell, lake of fire, pit of fire, whatever. You refuse to acknowledge what is written.

You believe that even Satan gets saved even though it says here:

The Devil who had led them astray was thrown into the pool of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever… Revelation 20:10

You’re wrong on this. You also refuse to acknowledge that some don’t get saved even though it is written here:

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire… Revelation 20:15

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast… Ephesians 2:8-9

And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna… Matthew 10:28

I tell you, everyone who acknowledges me before others the Son of Man will acknowledge before the angels of God. But whoever denies me before others will be denied before the angels of God… Luke 12:8-9

"There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man's table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames. 'Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented… Luke 16:19-25

I could provide so much more, but you will dismiss it. The proof is in the same Bible you claim to believe for your own purposes. So, you are rewriting the Bible to suit your own agenda. Not sure what that agenda is; the only thing I can come up with is you have a lot of skeletons in your closet and you want to make you are covered.

 

[This_person]

And if I go to the US Congress then I will correct the wrongs there too.

This thread isn't about you, narcissist.

 

[Xaquin44]

Rewriting the Bible. You must feel pretty good about having such authority. Can't wait to see what you rewrite when you get a Congressional seat.

Everyone else is doing it


hehehe

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Look, folks call it hell because that is the term they use. Call it whatever you want: hell, lake of fire, pit of fire, whatever. You refuse to acknowledge what is written.

You believe that even Satan gets saved even though it says here:

You’re wrong on this. You also refuse to acknowledge that some don’t get saved even though it is written here:

Lake of fire, pool of fire, fire of furnace, Holy Spirit fire, fire pit, these are not eternal torture in a "Hell" because fire cleans and purifies the person.

God and Jesus do not hurt and torture people - God and Jesus are in the salvation of everybody business.

The Orthodox claim that their "Hell" is the product of our loving Father God is absurd, and it is a contradiction by pretending that violent torture (hell) is some act of love or justice and it is not.

 

[PsyOps]

Lake of fire, pool of fire, fire of furnace, Holy Spirit fire, fire pit, these are not eternal torture in a "Hell" because fire cleans and purifies the person.

God and Jesus do not hurt and torture people - God and Jesus are in the salvation of everybody business.

The Orthodox claim that their "Hell" is the product of our loving Father God is absurd, and it is a contradiction by pretending that violent torture (hell) is some act of love or justice and it is not.

Yup... just as I knew you would, you completely dismissed everything.

It is not God and Jesus that are doing the harm. It is the one that refuses to accept Christ that is bringing judgment on themself.

The love that God extends to us is His plan for salvation. It is up to us to accept that plan or cut his loving hand off. It is not God that doing the damage, it is us refusing to accept Him. Just as a child leaves home because they are mad at their parents. The parents always leave the door open, but the kid refuses to come home. The kid can't make ends meet and ends up starving because of it. Was it the parents that did this to the kid? No! They did it to themselves. But the parents aren't going to force the kid to come back. It's the kid's choice.

Everything that goes against God has consequences. But we bring these consequences on ourselves. God gives us all we need to accept Christ and be saved. If we refuse to acknowledge this and accept Christ then we WILL face the consequences. This is not the result of a brutal and ruthless God. This is the result of a rebellious and sinful people.

So I ask you... specifically what verses in the Bible say this "lake of fire", "pool of fire", "fire of furnace" cleans and purifies "the person"?

 

[Marie]

Yup... just as I knew you would, you completely dismissed everything.
It is not God and Jesus that are doing the harm. It is the one that refuses to accept Christ that is bringing judgment on themself.
Everything that goes against God has consequences

Sorry I posted this in another thread but its revelant and maybe reading it more than once it will start to sink in. Its easier to embrace the false teachings of an occult than to see ourselves as we truley are and have to surrender our will to the God above rather than an idol created in our own minds
<DIR>2Pe 2:1 And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall bring in besides destructive sects, and the Master who bought them denying, bringing to themselves quick destruction,
2Pe 2:2 and many shall follow out their destructive ways, because of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of,
2Pe 2:3 and in covetousness, with moulded words, of you they shall make merchandise, whose judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction doth not slumber.
</DIR>

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

So I ask you... specifically what verses in the Bible say this "lake of fire", "pool of fire", "fire of furnace" cleans and purifies "the person"?

First Jesus baptises with spirit and fire link HERE and later people purified by fire link HERE.

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

The fire destroys the sinful works for each and all of us and each person gets saved.

 

[PsyOps]

First Jesus baptises with spirit and fire link HERE and later people purified by fire link HERE.

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

The fire destroys the sinful works for each and all of us and each person gets saved.

Yes JPC... TO THOSE THAT BELIEVE!

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

You have to believe, or you will be condemned; you will be left our of the book of life and condemned to the lake of fire. It's an action you must take. Not by merely being born human.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so no one may boast... Ephesians 2:8-9

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the pool of fire... Revelation 20:15

You completely misinterpret the meaning of this "fire". It is not purifying everyone. In fact it's not purifying anyone. This "fire" is purifying the earth. Cleansing it of the evil that lived here. Some will go on to live through this, some will not. It is already written, and I have already given this to you too many times, that not everyone's name is in the book of life. For those that are not, they do not survive this cleansing. They will be purged from the earth.

You can't just extract from the bible that which falsely supports your position. There are parts you leave out and refuse to acknowledge as part of God's plan.

 

[PsyOps]

Sorry I posted this in another thread but its revelant and maybe reading it more than once it will start to sink in. Its easier to embrace the false teachings of an occult than to see ourselves as we truley are and have to surrender our will to the God above rather than an idol created in our own minds
<DIR>2Pe 2:1 And there did come also false prophets among the people, as also among you there shall be false teachers, who shall bring in besides destructive sects, and the Master who bought them denying, bringing to themselves quick destruction,
2Pe 2:2 and many shall follow out their destructive ways, because of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of,
2Pe 2:3 and in covetousness, with moulded words, of you they shall make merchandise, whose judgment of old is not idle, and their destruction doth not slumber.
</DIR>

JPC is not a prophet. He is not part of any cult. He is simply a misinformed person whose only purpose is to stand contrary to what is considered accepted doctrine.

 

[Marie]

JPC is not a prophet. He is not part of any cult. He is simply a misinformed person whose only purpose is to stand contrary to what is considered accepted doctrine.

Actually he told me that he left here years ago to join Herbert W Armstrongs "Church of God" in California, that was the cult I was refering to.

This is from there own web page!

In the early 1930s, Herbert Armstrong began a ministry that eventually became the Worldwide Church of God. He had many unusual doctrines. These he taught so enthusiastically that eventually more than 100,000 people attended weekly services. After he died in 1986, church leaders began to realize that many of his doctrines were not biblical.
A Brief History of the Worldwide Church of God

Most people did not accept his unusual views, but he persuaded a few people that traditional churches were wrong, and that he had the truth.

Sounds like JPC
As the Worldwide Church of God criticized traditional Christianity, it also attracted criticism. Many people considered Herbert Armstrong to be the leader of a heretical cult.
This bias against traditional orthodoxy became part of the WCG culture, and it was an advertising hook that captured many people’s interest.
In addition to the weekly Sabbath, the WCG observed seven annual Sabbaths, based on Leviticus 23. Church members also avoided pork, shrimp and certain other meats

JPC dosent eat meat at all, its to violent.

 

[JPC sr]

Deadbeat child support resister.

Yes JPC... TO THOSE THAT BELIEVE!

You have to believe, or you will be condemned; you will be left our of the book of life and condemned to the lake of fire. It's an action you must take. Not by merely being born human.

On Judgement Day then everyone will believe and everyone will get saved then.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess and everyone saved.

You completely misinterpret the meaning of this "fire". It is not purifying everyone. In fact it's not purifying anyone. This "fire" is purifying the earth. Cleansing it of the evil that lived here. Some will go on to live through this, some will not. It is already written, and I have already given this to you too many times, that not everyone's name is in the book of life. For those that are not, they do not survive this cleansing. They will be purged from the earth.

You can't just extract from the bible that which falsely supports your position. There are parts you leave out and refuse to acknowledge as part of God's plan.

I believe it is you that is leaving parts out because I quoted the Bible and gave links accordingly.

It would be hard to give more decisive proof that fire purifies the sin from the sinner then I gave in this link HERE.

You are denying it while I am giving the facts to back it up.

 

[PsyOps]

On Judgement Day then everyone will believe and everyone will get saved then.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess and everyone saved.

Nope. As I provided for you, that you continue to ignore is some will not be written in the book of life. I think that is pretty plain and simple. They may become believers at that time because they will see the REAL work of God and perhaps His face, but it will be too late and their destiny is the “lake of fire”; eternal damnation; weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I believe it is you that is leaving parts out because I quoted the Bible and gave links accordingly.

It would be hard to give more decisive proof that fire purifies the sin from the sinner then I gave in this link HERE.

You are denying it while I am giving the facts to back it up.

I am leaving out nothing. The verses you gave are perfectly valid but not on their own, as you are trying to falsely report. I include what you provide and what I provide as all-inclusive. You are leaving out what I provided. You’re complete ignorance of 1 Corinthians 3 is obvious. That chapter is speaking to believers; those that have already made the commitment to Christ. Paul is writing to an established church in Corinth:

Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, to the church of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be holy, with all those everywhere who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours… 1 Corinthians 1:1-2

As to chapter 3 Paul is still speaking to believers:

For we are God's co-workers; you are God's field, God's building. If anyone (a believer) builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one's work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire… 1 Corinthians 3:9-15

What this means, JPC, is if a believer tries to build on the work of God but does not stand up to the standard God has set (thus being revealed by the purging of evil from this earth through fire) they still remain as one of God’s children. God does not recognize their work as God’s work but still recognizes their faith and belief in Christ.

But here is the part you left out:

If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy that person; for the temple of God, which you are, is holy… 1 Corinthians 3:17

Your premise would assume no one falls into this category. And it would be a wrong and arrogant assumption that somehow some people can escape this.

But the big verse you refuse to acknowledge is:

Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God… John 3:18

YOU MUST BELIEVE!