Affirmative Action

[JustinB]

...if law enforcement, nationwide, has a national security function of and companies have a means to focus on compliance then there is pressure on illegals to...comply.

It's not 'papers' it's a national ID card. Just a card. Get one or pay a fine and, ultimately, get thrown out for not complying.

No need for fences. No need for storm trooper tactics. Just a damn card.

No I like the automated gun turrets I got enough ID cards

 

[This_person]

...if law enforcement, nationwide, has a national security function of and companies have a means to focus on compliance then there is pressure on illegals to...comply.

It's not 'papers' it's a national ID card. Just a card. Get one or pay a fine and, ultimately, get thrown out for not complying.

No need for fences. No need for storm trooper tactics. Just a damn card.

Again, not a problem for me - I think it's a good idea.

I just see how many people on here argue their "points".

 

[Larry Gude]

...

No I like the automated gun turrets I got enough ID cards

...will you like them when they are defeated? Will you like them when they are turned on you? Or will you be like the French when the Maginot line failed and marvel at how you never saw that coming?

 

[Larry Gude]

...

Again, not a problem for me - I think it's a good idea.

I just see how many people on here argue their "points".

...so, argue back. The great ally of the GOP and controlling the borders is second and third generations Mexican Americans who want rule of law just like you and me. The GOP, because of whatever mental deficiency we suffer, did not utilize them to win the argument.

NO one supports uncontrolled, ILLEGAL immigration. Keep the argument THERE.

That was never gonna happen with Bush or McCain.

 

[JustinB]

...will you like them when they are defeated? Will you like them when they are turned on you? Or will you be like the French when the Maginot line failed and marvel at how you never saw that coming?

Thats an odd comparison.. but Ok

 

[Larry Gude]

...

Thats an odd comparison.. but Ok

Odd how? It didn't work. It never could. Fences in specific places help, some, but, they do NOT address the problems and more than locking your doors addresses the problem in a crime ridden neighborhood. They are ugly symbols for the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Do we address the problems or hide behind fences and locked doors?

 

[bcp]

Odd how? It didn't work. It never could. Fences in specific places help, some, but, they do NOT address the problems and more than locking your doors addresses the problem in a crime ridden neighborhood. They are ugly symbols for the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Do we address the problems or hide behind fences and locked doors?

It might help the argument if you were to describe what you thought the problem or problems were that we need to be fixing to keep them out of our country.

 

[bcp]

and, since they are already supposed to have a card, and be registered, that does not seem to be an issue with them.
they will still take the chance to come here, even if it means a possible free ride back.
they go back, visit with family, then come back over using a different name.

 

[Larry Gude]

...

It might help the argument if you were to describe what you thought the problem or problems were that we need to be fixing to keep them out of our country.

...the goal is not to keep anyone out. The goal is to manage immigration in a rational fashion.

There is a reasonable number of immigrants that should be coming in each year on a permanent basis. What is that number? Per state?

There is a reasonable number of temporary workers that should be coming in and out. What is that number? Per state?

That reasonable number is NOT the free for all that has been allowed to happen.

Each and every US citizen should have a national ID card that simply states DOB, place of birth, current employment, employment history, residency and a residency history and citizen status; native born, naturalized, new immigrant, temporary worker, where you are a citizen of, etc.

Require business to simply verify with the issuing agency, INS, the new worker.

Each state can argue for their quota; how many people their industries are clamoring for. Let the citizens of the state argue amongst themselves if they want more or less. Are companies being to cheap and just won't pay enough? Are there simply not enough workers?

It is a very simple question; Should we control and manage who gets to come and under what conditions or should we not? The rest is details that either support control or management or not and therein lies the debate.

 

[Larry Gude]

...

and, since they are already supposed to have a card, and be registered, that does not seem to be an issue with them.
they will still take the chance to come here, even if it means a possible free ride back.
they go back, visit with family, then come back over using a different name.

...finger print. DNA sample. Retina. Not a problem.

 

[bcp]

Decent Ideas, and Im not too concerned with having that information on hand, as a matter of fact, I most likely carry it all now anyway in one form or another, but if we cant even pass laws that require proof of citizenship to vote without the ACLU claiming that the law is oppressive and not constitutional, how are you suggesting that anything could be passed like what you offer?

I see the problem in a different way.
South America sucks. there, thats it.
the people are poor, the governments are rich. No business to speak of that will support the people. Education is low.

however, I stop short at the next liberal offering of pumping billions into those countries to build for them what they should have built for themselves in the first place.

The problem is not OUR government, the problem is THEIR government, and the people are too weak and lazy to fight for their rights in their own country.

 

[Larry Gude]

...

Decent Ideas, and Im not too concerned with having that information on hand, as a matter of fact, I most likely carry it all now anyway in one form or another, but if we cant even pass laws that require proof of citizenship to vote without the ACLU claiming that the law is oppressive and not constitutional, how are you suggesting that anything could be passed like what you offer? Fight for it. Argue logic and reason. Argue national security. Offer to get rid of the stupid Patriot Act in exchange for a national ID card and system. Win the argument. WIN.

I see the problem in a different way.
South America sucks. there, thats it. So? All them people come here for a reason!
the people are poor, the governments are rich. No business to speak of that will support the people. Education is low.

however, I stop short at the next liberal offering of pumping billions into those countries to build for them what they should have built for themselves in the first place. They don't need to be built up. They are free to stay stupid.

The problem is not OUR government, the problem is THEIR government, and the people are too weak and lazy to fight for their rights in their own country.

SO???

We spend far too much time finding OUR national interest in changing other nations which sounds good but we can neither do nor particularly influence. It ain't none of our business, let's not make it our problem.

Do what we always used to do; attract other peoples best and brightest and to bad for the nation they left behind.

Think about it this way; we have all the motivated resourceful people from Mexico. Think of what that means for what is left. You actually wanna get involved with the dregs?

Best thing we can do for Mexico and ourselves is to legalize drugs. Wipe out the money and the corruption and the violence. Over night. Then, they have a chance. Us, too. if nothing else, just soften the penalties to civil and wipe out the profit motive. Harsh penalties are the driving force of profitability in drugs.

 

[JustinB]

...the goal is not to keep anyone out. The goal is to manage immigration in a rational fashion.

There is a reasonable number of immigrants that should be coming in each year on a permanent basis. What is that number? Per state?

There is a reasonable number of temporary workers that should be coming in and out. What is that number? Per state?

That reasonable number is NOT the free for all that has been allowed to happen.

Each and every US citizen should have a national ID card that simply states DOB, place of birth, current employment, employment history, residency and a residency history and citizen status; native born, naturalized, new immigrant, temporary worker, where you are a citizen of, etc.

Require business to simply verify with the issuing agency, INS, the new worker.

Each state can argue for their quota; how many people their industries are clamoring for. Let the citizens of the state argue amongst themselves if they want more or less. Are companies being to cheap and just won't pay enough? Are there simply not enough workers?

It is a very simple question; Should we control and manage who gets to come and under what conditions or should we not? The rest is details that either support control or management or not and therein lies the debate.

It can't be that hard for a business to do a simple background check. They're simply not doing it. There's a legal way to get in this country but they choose not to take that route. So we hand out all these cards and that's supposed to change things?

 

[Larry Gude]

...

It can't be that hard for a business to do a simple background check. They're simply not doing it. There's a legal way to get in this country but they choose not to take that route. So we hand out all these cards and that's supposed to change things?

...WHY SHOULD BUSINESS BE REQUIRED TO PERFORM GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS???

Should I hire a detective to see if a guys drivers license is real or not? Or if they actually live where they say they do? Or if their SS # is real? Or talk to his neighbors, teachers, classmates in kindergarten?

National ID; Hire someone, enter it into the national data base, it comes back clean or some agent comes out to pick the guy up. States don't wanna deal with it. Hell, why should Maryland deal with some dude who came in through Arizona, spent some time in San Fran and then came here a few years later?

National ID. Viola.

 

[Larry Gude]

...

It can't be that hard for a business to do a simple background check. They're simply not doing it. There's a legal way to get in this country but they choose not to take that route. So we hand out all these cards and that's supposed to change things?

...as it is now, I do a new hire registration and enter their social when I do my quarterly unemployment report. To Maryland. What then?

 

[JustinB]

...WHY SHOULD BUSINESS BE REQUIRED TO PERFORM GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONS???

Should I hire a detective to see if a guys drivers license is real or not? Or if they actually live where they say they do? Or if their SS # is real? Or talk to his neighbors, teachers, classmates in kindergarten?

National ID; Hire someone, enter it into the national data base, it comes back clean or some agent comes out to pick the guy up. States don't wanna deal with it. Hell, why should Maryland deal with some dude who came in through Arizona, spent some time in San Fran and then came here a few years later?

National ID. Viola.

You can't tell if someone has a fake ID?! They're simply not checking!!!

 

[Larry Gude]

...

You can't tell if someone has a fake ID?! They're simply not checking!!!

...you don't read much, do you?

Illegal aliens are getting legitimate documents because governments are giving them to them. Do you have any idea how easy it is to get a drivers license in Maryland?

I have to do a change of address at school for my daughter. They will NOT accept a Maryland drivers license as proof. Will NOT.

Think about that.

 

[JustinB]

...you don't read much, do you?

Illegal aliens are getting legitimate documents because governments are giving them to them. Do you have any idea how easy it is to get a drivers license in Maryland?

I have to do a change of address at school for my daughter. They will NOT accept a Maryland drivers license as proof. Will NOT.

Think about that.

Fine Larry we do the national ID the Mexicans are still going to be coming and they'll find work because people will hire them whether they're on the books or not. It shouldn't be as easy as it is to get a Maryland drivers license, another tip off would be how well they speak English, that should raise some suspicion.

 

[Larry Gude]

...

Fine Larry we do the national ID the Mexicans are still going to be coming and they'll find work because people will hire them whether they're on the books or not. It shouldn't be as easy as it is to get a Maryland drivers license, another tip off would be how well they speak English, that should raise some suspicion.

...and you solution would be...?

 

[JustinB]

...and you solution would be...?

I have no solution you have won your argument.