2lazy2P
nothing unreal exists
Ok, Ok... It was the dessert that did it.
Your Choice: Angel Food Cake or Devil's Food Cake.
Ok, Ok... It was the dessert that did it.
Your Choice: Angel Food Cake or Devil's Food Cake.
Not sure why you believe he intended for us not to ever understand.So you think God's original creation was "silly". After all, he did create us without the knowledge of evil, and the obvious intent that he never wanted us to understand it. If there must be an understanding of evil to appreciate good, why were Adam and Eve ejected from the Garden?
So there is no Evil in the new Heaven after the second coming. How does one know that Heaven is Good since there is no Evil?
One has been exposed to evil to understand the difference.
Not sure why you believe he intended for us not to ever understand.
But, the tree from which mankind ate was not tree of the knowledge of evil, it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (see Genesis 2:9 and 2:17). :shrug: Seems obvious to me they understood neither until they understood both.
SO God intentions all along were to banish us from the Garden of Eden and know death?
Actualy, it appears that God's intention was to see how well we could follow His Instructions. (Free will) Adam and Eve were in a perfect environment to begin with. Had they first eaten of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden (which they were allowed to eat from) they would have remained in an eternal fellowship with God and there would have been no sin.
But, oh no, along comes Satan and tells Eve that it's Okay to take a bite of the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and that they would not die as God warned but that they could become as gods themselves.
So, the test was one of obedience. Adam and Eve believed in God but they did not believe God. That's the case today. People can say that they "believe in God" but when the test comes through for following His Will, they don't believe God.
But...sin and evil would have to exsist for the tree of knowledge to exsist in the first place right?
Also, it's not exactly free will when someone is ignorant to the consequences of their actions.
What reason did they have not to trust Satan when they didn't know what evil was or how to identify it? Other than Gods' threat about things they had no comprehension of, they had no clue.
I know you're going to play your game of semantics and technicalities ("That doesn't mean what it obviously means, as long as you view it from a certain point of view."), but I will not get into a 20-page tennis match with you like UNA.Not sure why you believe he intended for us not to ever understand.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
So why were they put in the Garden to begin with? If they HAD to know evil to understand good, what was the purpose of the Garden? Further, why was eating of the tree considered a sin? God could have tested their obedience in other ways independent of the knowledge of good and evil that would have made much more sense. :shrug:Seems obvious to me they understood neither until they understood both.
This is quite the paradox: they HAD to know evil to understand good, but God told them not to do so. Did he truly want us to know and be good or to simply follow orders? Satan existed, but why allow Satan to set up shop - via the tree - in the Garden?But...sin and evil would have to exsist for the tree of knowledge to exsist in the first place right?
Satan was already the representative of sin and evil as a result of his prior disobedience and defiance of God in Heaven. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil could be considered as having a "poisonous and mind altering affect" that would result in conscious awareness of right and wrong and, ultimately, death if eaten. That was why God warned Adam and Eve not to partake of that tree.
It's called disobedience that results from "free-will" to take an action contrary to a warning. For example: You tell your child not to touch the hot-plate on a stove because if he/she does it will burn their fingers. They are ignorant of what it means to get their fingers burned. So, they defy your warning, touch the hot-plate and then find out what BURN means. .
That's the whole point. Adam and Eve were cognizant of what God had warned them about but still chose to believe that Satan was telling them the truth rather than God. Same is true today with Satan's spiritual deceptions. People are deceived by Satan into thinking that there really is no God, or that Hell does not exist, or leads them into following the "wrong Jesus," etc.
I know you're going to play your game of semantics and technicalities ("That doesn't mean what it obviously means, as long as you view it from a certain point of view."), but I will not get into a 20-page tennis match with you like UNA.
You referenced Genesis 2:17 but want to put your spin on it.Per your interpretation, when God said, "... you must not eat from the tree...," he was not trying to prevent them from eating from it. Right.
So why were they put in the Garden to begin with? If they HAD to know evil to understand good, what was the purpose of the Garden? Further, why was eating of the tree considered a sin? God could have tested their obedience in other ways independent of the knowledge of good and evil that would have made much more sense. :shrug:
Maybe teaching them what loss was first on a smaller scale would have made more sense to me
To take a tip from "A Christmas Carol", if God had given them a glimpse of the future and allowed them to momentarily experience sadness, pain, death, shame, doubt, etc. I'm sure they would have obeyed him (for a while, anyway ).
Again, this is why the human parent/child analogy is insufficient. Any parent who reprimanded their young child by kicking them out of the house and locking the door would be considered a grade A azzhole and put in jail.
Starman3000m said:SO God intentions all along were to banish us from the Garden of Eden and know death?
Actualy, it appears that God's intention was to see how well we could follow His Instructions. (Free will) Adam and Eve were in a perfect environment to begin with. Had they first eaten of the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden (which they were allowed to eat from) they would have remained in an eternal fellowship with God and there would have been no sin.
But, oh no, along comes Satan and tells Eve that it's Okay to take a bite of the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and that they would not die as God warned but that they could become as gods themselves.
So, the test was one of obedience. Adam and Eve believed in God but they did not believe God. That's the case today. People can say that they "believe in God" but when the test comes through for following His Will, they don't believe God.
Wirelessly posted
"But, oh no, along comes Satan..."
Where does it say the serpent was Satan?
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Revelation 12:9)
...When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:44)
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
(2 Corinthians 11:14)
So by your account, evil will always continue to exist, even after the second coming?
SO God intentions all along were to banish us from the Garden of Eden and know death?
He absolutely was trying to prevent it. No two ways about it.You referenced Genesis 2:17 but want to put your spin on it.Per your interpretation, when God said, "... you must not eat from the tree...," he was not trying to prevent them from eating from it. Right.
A place for mankind to exist. If the tree was the knowledge of good and evil, did they know either beforehand?So why were they put in the Garden to begin with? If they HAD to know evil to understand good, what was the purpose of the Garden?
More sense to whom? I don't have the arrogance to question God's methods. When I can create an entire universe including the concept of time, I may begin to get a little cocky, but until then I won't presume to make such judgements out of a combination of ignorance and arrogance.Further, why was eating of the tree considered a sin? God could have tested their obedience in other ways independent of the knowledge of good and evil that would have made much more sense. :shrug:
This is quite the paradox: they HAD to know evil to understand good, but God told them not to do so. Did he truly want us to know and be good or to simply follow orders? Satan existed, but why allow Satan to set up shop - via the tree - in the Garden?
It's a cute story, but it falls apart in so many ways. I think it's easier to admit that people are flawed from the start... the way nature made us.