Amber Frey claims to read the Bible

[dems4me]

This is a point of misunderstanding, but not discussed but only from example in the Bible. A baby is christened which involves no decision on their part. It is a blessing of the child. Baptism requires a decision of the person being baptized. It is a conscience decision to repent of sin and accept God's gift of salvation. There is no case of babies being baptized in the Bible, only adults.

Are you saying John the Babtist never babtized babies.... just adults I find that hard to believe if you ask me, but I'll look into it tonight

 

[Kain99]

Are you saying John the Babtist never babtized babies.... just adults I find that hard to believe if you ask me, but I'll look into it tonight

2A is right.... There is a fundamental difference. In the Penecostal World *My world* Christening doesn't count.

I have been "Baptized" twice... Thinking I need to go for three!

 

[dems4me]

2A is right.... There is a fundamental difference. In the Penecostal World *My world* Christening doesn't count.

I have been "Baptized" twice... Thinking I need to go for three!

Well that would explain it... as 2A and I have discussed in the past.. I'm NOT Pentacostal. It's more clear cut... you get baptized when you are a baby or whatever age if you have not been baptized before.

 

[Kain99]

Well that would explain it... as 2A and I have discussed in the past.. I'm NOT Pentacostal. It's more clear cut... you get baptized when you are a baby or whatever age if you have not been baptized before.

The idea is..... that being sprinkled as a baby is sweet but meaningless. The decision to live for God must be made by each individual. This gets into arguments about doctrine and I hate those. Just wanted you to understand the differences.

 

[dems4me]

The idea is..... that being sprinkled as a baby is sweet but meaningless. The decision to live for God must be made by each individual. This gets into arguments about doctrine and I hate those. Just wanted you to understand the differences.

I completely understand now... different demoniations = different interpretations

 

[2ndAmendment]

I would like to think the same is true. But to the best of my knowledge the bible doesn't give an exact answer. If a child sinned right before death or was a rotten disobiedent kid because he was allowed to get away with such things then would that child be rejected. I have a hard time swallowing the fact that ANY child would be rejected but to look at what the bible says in plain black and white one could/would come up with that assumption.



I don't think that a child who has little to no knowledge of God can really rebell against him. As adults we have that comprehension. What about people with mental disabilities that have the mindset of a child and don't have the capacity to repent.

I'm not condoning sinners in the least nor am I saying that I don't repent for my sins. What I do question is the bible being so "black and white".

I can't find it right now, but I believe I read in the Bible that if someone had not heard they would be judge on what they were given. There is also the concept of being of age. A person, even though born in sin, was not responsible until they were of age. A Jew becomes and adult at 12.

It is my personal opinion that God does not condemn children that are not of age and people that cannot properly reason, but this is only my opinion. I will see if I can find the scripture I think I read.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Well I belive its a trinity like the shamrock... when you have sinned against one.. you have sinned against all three. Blasphemy is blasphemy

I didn't say it, Jesus did.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Well that would explain it... as 2A and I have discussed in the past.. I'm NOT Pentacostal. It's more clear cut... you get baptized when you are a baby or whatever age if you have not been baptized before.

Matthew 3:1-6
1Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying,


2"Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."


3For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said,
"THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
'MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT!'"


4Now John himself had a garment of camel's hair and a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey.


5Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan;


6and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins.

If the children are not of age and not able to confess their sins (a parent can't do it for you), then how can a baby be baptized?

 

[vraiblonde]

If he were standing before God would he be told "sorry, your mom screwed up by not getting you baptized so you go straight to hell."?

Yep, and it would be all your fault.

It was always my understanding that infant baptism was two-fold: a precautionary measure in case the kid dies and a kind of introducing the baby to God.

Infant baptism doesn't protect you any more from hell's fires as an adult than false baptism does (i.e. getting the blessing but not intending to try and be a good Christian). Just because some minister pronounces you saved doesn't mean you really are. The only way to salvation is through your own thoughts, words and deeds.

 

[Kain99]

I can't find it right now, but I believe I read in the Bible that if someone had not heard they would be judge on what they were given. There is also the concept of being of age. A person, even though born in sin, was not responsible until they were of age. A Jew becomes and adult at 12.

It is my personal opinion that God does not condemn children that are not of age and people that cannot properly reason, but this is only my opinion. I will see if I can find the scripture I think I read.

Jesus dealt with the character of those who would enter the kingdom. Notice the words of Jesus: “Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” (Mt.18:3). If it is true that babies and young children are nothing more than wicked, grievous sinners, then all who desire to enter the kingdom must become such. Is this the make-up of the kingdom of God? Certainly not, for wicked, grievous sinners will not be allowed into the eternal abode of the faithful (Rev.21:8, 27).

The fact remains that we must become as little children if we are to enter into the kingdom of heaven. What does this mean? Jesus used the child to show the characteristics of the child of God. Little children manifest a simple, loving trust. They are humble, and so quick to forgive. They are innocent, and obedient. These attributes which so fittingly characterize a little child must be present in the lives of those who wish to enter the kingdom of heaven. If little babies are totally depraved, then this object lesson offered by our Lord makes no sense.

Many other passages could be offered to show the Bible truth that children are born pure and innocent, but I believe these will suffice. The damnable doctrine that man is born totally depraved is just another futile attempt on man’s part to place blame for his actions elsewhere. The Bible truth is that we are responsible for our own actions, and one day we will answer for the sins we have committed, not the sins of someone else.

Source

 

[dems4me]

If the children are not of age and not able to confess their sins (a parent can't do it for you), then how can a baby be baptized?

Could it be that he was baptizing adults because they were already born and older than Jesus at the time and baptism was unheard of at the time but then became a frequent custom from there on out

 

[Kain99]

Could it be that he was baptizing adults because they were already born and older than Jesus at the time and baptism was unheard of at the time but then became a frequent custom from there on out

John was baptizing adults under the theroy, that each must choose the Lord. Plus, he was baptizing by total immersion and that would have drowning to a baby.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Jesus dealt with the character of those who would enter the kingdom. Notice the words of Jesus: “Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” (Mt.18:3). If it is true that babies and young children are nothing more than wicked, grievous sinners, then all who desire to enter the kingdom must become such. Is this the make-up of the kingdom of God? Certainly not, for wicked, grievous sinners will not be allowed into the eternal abode of the faithful (Rev.21:8, 27).

Thanks.

I think the concept also goes even further. Like you say, little children are very trusting. They have faith in what they are told. I think Jesus is also saying we have to have faith like little children believing God and His word even when it flys in the face of our human understanding.

 

[dems4me]

I give up


emsslowlywalksaway:

 

[2ndAmendment]

Could it be that he was baptizing adults because they were already born and older than Jesus at the time and baptism was unheard of at the time but then became a frequent custom from there on out

Remeber that Jesus was even baptized by John.

Matthew 3:13-17
13Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.


14But John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?"


15But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him.


16After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,


17and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."

 

[vraiblonde]

Somewhere in Mark Jesus is approached by a man whose young daughter is dying. Jesus give the daughter life because of her father's faith. So I take that to mean that if YOU are a good Christian - and I mean a GOOD one, not some fake wannabe - then God will let your kid into Heaven based on your faith.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I give up


emsslowlywalksaway:

I love you in Christ. Do not take offense just because we disagree on this. "We see through a mirror dimly" with our own imperfect understanding of God's ways. We do our best to understand. If we disagree on this we do agree on Christ.

 

[dems4me]

Somewhere in Mark Jesus is approached by a man whose young daughter is dying. Jesus give the daughter life because of her father's faith. So I take that to mean that if YOU are a good Christian - and I mean a GOOD one, not some fake wannabe - then God will let your kid into Heaven based on your faith.

emsrushesback:

I do remember this teaching too!!! But I think it was more of an exception than the norm :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

But I think it was more of an exception than the norm :shrug:

No, because there was a mentally retarded person or something like that that was saved by Jesus, even though he didn't have the capacity to understand the concept of salvation.

It's not about getting sprinkled on - it's about what's in your heart. The sprinkling is only symbolic and Jesus made several exceptions for those who weren't capable of making decisions on theri own.

 

[dems4me]

No, because there was a mentally retarded person or something like that that was saved by Jesus, even though he didn't have the capacity to understand the concept of salvation.

It's not about getting sprinkled on - it's about what's in your heart. The sprinkling is only symbolic and Jesus made several exceptions for those who weren't capable of making decisions on theri own.

OIC... thanks!