Amber Frey claims to read the Bible

[SmallTown]

As far as me being a sinner who reads the Bible and Amber being a sinner who reads the Bible, we are the same. I don't have sex out of marriage, so we are different there. Also I am not promoting any book other than the Bible so there is another difference. If she has accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord, then she is forgiven just as I am. Forgiveness is open to everyone.

Since I am not a celebrity like Amber has become, I doubt that the discussion would have been quite so intense.

So some sinners are better than others?

 

[Christy]

The trooper of course. Apples and oranges.

 

[crabcake]

My experiences with Christianity never felt like that to me. Even when I was a little boy, the religion always seemed like it demanded absolute, unforgiving perfection, like one mistake and I would be doomed to hell. It always seemed like asking for forgiveness was an invitation for God to laugh in my face. It always seemed to present a view of God's love as conditional.

I completely relate to that! My grandparents used to tote my brother, cousins and I along to church (Catholic) and it was absolute pure hell! We were kids at the time, and if we so as much giggled at something (as kids every once it a while happen to do), we got the evil eye. I have been to several catholic churches and have never felt 'comfortable'. The closest I've ever found to some place I could feel comfortable enough to be somewhat receptive was a Lutheran Church out in Arizona. It wasn't overly-"preachy", if you were divorced, you weren't chastised; if you had a child out of wedlock, you weren't scorned. It was a very 'welcoming' place to go if you chose to. It basically preached the same thing 2A is saying (but in a much milder, more acceptable tone -- no offense, 2A): seek forgiveness and accept Jesus as your savior. Some call it "watered down" but for those like me who aren't quite sure what they believe and are searching for the answers, it's the best bet for getting me in the door!

 

[vraiblonde]

So some sinners are better than others?

Yeah, actually. Sinners who are at least trying not to sin and make amends when they do are infinitely preferable to sinners who keep on doing it and couldn't care less.

 

[2ndAmendment]

My experiences with Christianity never felt like that to me. Even when I was a little boy, the religion always seemed like it demanded absolute, unforgiving perfection, like one mistake and I would be doomed to hell. It always seemed like asking for forgiveness was an invitation for God to laugh in my face. It always seemed to present a view of God's love as conditional.

Sorry.

I was confused as to what the Bible said and what God wants until I read it for myself. There is a lot more in the Bible than what you get on Sunday morning. I know the pastor at the Baptist church I used to go to told me he had never read the whole Bible. Now if pastors don't read the whole Bible how can you expect to get all of the Bible on just 5-10 minutes which is about how long most sermons last in most churches on just Sunday mornings. It takes the average reader 90 hours to read the Bible from cover to cover. It takes a little longer if you read the apocryphal books. If a pastor read the Bible from cover to cover to the congregation using only his sermon time it would take over ten years. Some pastors and churches repeat the same set of sermons every year. Some Catholic Bibles (maybe all - I don't know) have a list of the readings from the Bible for each Sunday; they don't change. At least that is what I was told by a guy who used to be a Catholic. He showed me the list in his Catholic Bible.

The only way to know what is in the Bible is to read it.

God's love for us is the love of the best father you can imagine. He has rules, but He forgives us when we ask.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So some sinners are better than others?

No. Some sinners are forgiven and some have not accepted God's gift of salvation.

I think you are just trying to pick a fight.

 

[SmallTown]

Yeah, actually. Sinners who are at least trying not to sin and make amends when they do are infinitely preferable

As if those actually exist

There are 2 types of people. People who just sin, and people who sin and believe the bible. Really is no middle ground there.

 

[SmallTown]

No. Some sinners are forgiven and some have not accepted God's gift of salvation.

I think you are just trying to pick a fight.

No, no fight. I'm just a little fuzzy on the whole good/bad sin stuff.

 

[vraiblonde]

As if those actually exist

Maybe you're just not hanging with the right crowd.

 

[Tonio]

I completely relate to that! My grandparents used to tote my brother, cousins and I along to church (Catholic) and it was absolute pure hell!

My mother came from a Baptist background. Her family believed that all pleasure was sinful and that women were of no account, which I think influenced her self-esteem. They later switched to Lutheran, and when I was a kid we went to a Lutheran church for a while. One day after Sunday school was over, I wandered into the church itself and saw a preacher talking about Job, I think. The story was about Job's enemies putting his son's eye out and cutting out his daughter's tongue. He called up a boy and a girl and had the boy put his hand over his eye and had the girl put her hand over her mouth. I saw this and was scared by the thought of possibly losing my eye or my tongue.

 

[Christy]

My experiences with Christianity never felt like that to me. Even when I was a little boy, the religion always seemed like it demanded absolute, unforgiving perfection, like one mistake and I would be doomed to hell. It always seemed like asking for forgiveness was an invitation for God to laugh in my face. It always seemed to present a view of God's love as conditional.

Grow up Catholic?

I grew up small town Methodist, no fire and brimstone, just your regular old sermons. It was just nice and peaceful, and it's where everyone in town came together on Sundays to socialize and help each other out. :shrug: But those were the days before the Methodist Church went all fruity.

 

[Christy]

Then don't. The point the author was trying to make is that Amber Frey is NOT the Snow White that the media is trying to make her out to be.

:

But I still think she's shady and stand by my conspiracy theory that she had Lacey offed and sent Scott out fishin.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I completely relate to that! My grandparents used to tote my brother, cousins and I along to church (Catholic) and it was absolute pure hell! We were kids at the time, and if we so as much giggled at something (as kids every once it a while happen to do), we got the evil eye. I have been to several catholic churches and have never felt 'comfortable'. The closest I've ever found to some place I could feel comfortable enough to be somewhat receptive was a Lutheran Church out in Arizona. It wasn't overly-"preachy", if you were divorced, you weren't chastised; if you had a child out of wedlock, you weren't scorned. It was a very 'welcoming' place to go if you chose to. It basically preached the same thing 2A is saying (but in a much milder, more acceptable tone -- no offense, 2A): seek forgiveness and accept Jesus as your savior. Some call it "watered down" but for those like me who aren't quite sure what they believe and are searching for the answers, it's the best bet for getting me in the door!

God provides the way to forgiveness. It is open to everyone. He has prescribed the path to get there. It is up to us what path to follow. Preaching the love of God and the gift of salvation is not watering down the Bible. Accepting people that have sinned in the past and teaching them God's ways is not watering down the Bible. When churches ignore the Bible and teach that some sin is OK no matter what it is, that is watering down the Bible. Sin is rebellion against God. Period. God loves us and has provided Himself as Jesus as the only sacrifice needed for our forgiveness. His only condition is that we accept His gift. Beyond that Christians, as we mature, strive to not sin at all. We fail; we ask forgiveness; we continue to strive. It is a continual process.

 

[vraiblonde]

But I still think she's shady and stand by my conspiracy theory that she had Lacey offed and sent Scott out fishin.

Hell hath no fury...

 

[2ndAmendment]

My mother came from a Baptist background. Her family believed that all pleasure was sinful and that women were of no account, which I think influenced her self-esteem. They later switched to Lutheran, and when I was a kid we went to a Lutheran church for a while. One day after Sunday school was over, I wandered into the church itself and saw a preacher talking about Job, I think. The story was about Job's enemies putting his son's eye out and cutting out his daughter's tongue. He called up a boy and a girl and had the boy put his hand over his eye and had the girl put her hand over her mouth. I saw this and was scared by the thought of possibly losing my eye or my tongue.

I think you must have misinterpreted what the pastor was saying or you have the wrong book of the Bible, but I do not recall events like that in any book of the Bible (not saying it absolutely isn't there - I don't have total recall).

This is the point. A misunderstanding of what someone thinks the Bible says as opposed to what the Bible actually says can cause someone to reject or question God.

 

[SmallTown]

Maybe you're just not hanging with the right crowd.

Could be. Guess I better make friends with all the non-sinners on here instead of hanging out with all of those catholic priests. And we all thought the kids' butts were sore from the spankings

 

[SamSpade]

As if those actually exist

There are 2 types of people. People who just sin, and people who sin and believe the bible. Really is no middle ground there.

There IS a difference. Let me illustrate:
If my wife sins against me, and repents and tries to make things right, I totally forgive her.

If YOU sin against me, I will totally kick your azz no matter how many crocodile tears you shed.

I had a friend explain it to me this way - to believe God is just gonna fry your butt for sinning against him no matter what you do, is like the relationship most people have with their employers - mess up, we kick you out, there's plenty of schmucks around to replace you. Jesus made the comparison of sheep, to hired hands. They don't give a crap about the sheep; they're just being paid to do a job. He said he was the good shepherd, because the sheep matter to him; *every* one of them.

My friend further explained that if you have a relationship with God, as your Father, he's not going to kick your azz out because you screwed up anymore than you'd kick your own kid out for spilling the milk by accident. *Mistakes* are easy to forgive, because they do not involve willful disobedience. People have weaknesses, and if their heart is in the right place, it's not hard to forgive.

People do this all the time, as I illustrated above - you forgive your friends; strangers, you kick their azz, because you don't know them. The relationship matters, as well as the heart behind it.

 

[Tonio]

I had a friend explain it to me this way - to believe God is just gonna fry your butt for sinning against him no matter what you do, is like the relationship most people have with their employers

It also sounds like the relationship that children of alcoholics or abusers have with their parents.

 

[pixiegirl]

Sin is rebellion against God. Period.

This statement I have a problem with. Take a child for instance. What if a kid steals a dollar out of his mother's purse to get some ice cream from the ice cream man and then gets hit by a car and dies on his way home. He has commited a sin (stealing) and has not repented for that sin. Would he even be mature enough to know how to repent for his sin. My son disobey's me on occasion (he's 3) is that not a sin as the bible tells it? Thou shall honor thy mother and thy father. If he were to die tomorrow would he be damned?

I'm not trying to pick a fight. It's just for certain reasons I can't view the bible as so black and white. I refuse to accepts that the hundreds o thousands of childrent that die every year are doomed because they have not had the time or knowledge to repent.

 

[vraiblonde]

What if a kid steals a dollar out of his mother's purse to get some ice cream from the ice cream man and then gets hit by a car and dies on his way home.

You're Catholic, aren't you?