Archaeologists, scholars dispute Jesus documentary

[2ndAmendment]

Do you read your scripture before you post it ? maybe you should spend less time accusing people of Cherry Picking :shrug:

the whole tangent of what we are talking about is predetermination, you feel man's path is his own to choose, i post Bible scripture that states otherwise (and you have not shown where i was wrong, 2 Thessalonians states that God determine who was going to be wicked, sent delusions so they believe the lie and damned them.) and you then post more scripture that i missed proving God has determined mans fate.

and i quote (from 2A's scripture)

I was pointing out that the ones that are deluded at that time had already made their decision and were not being allowed to change their mind in the face of God since the time of repentance and salvation was over and the time of judgment is at hand. If you can't see that in that scripture, then you are indeed blind.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Do you read your scripture before you post it ? maybe you should spend less time accusing people of Cherry Picking :shrug:

the whole tangent of what we are talking about is predetermination, you feel man's path is his own to choose, i post Bible scripture that states otherwise (and you have not shown where i was wrong, 2 Thessalonians states that God determine who was going to be wicked, sent delusions so they believe the lie and damned them.) and you then post more scripture that i missed proving God has determined mans fate.

and i quote (from 2A's scripture)

But you know what. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you do not have a choice. I think you do, but I will tell you this, if there is no choice and God chose me from the beginning for salvation, I'm glad. If you are not, and from your post, I would say at this point you are not, I am sorry for you.

But I am violating my own rule on trying to debate someone into believing. I try to present scripture as the Truth of God. You and wx have a great time together. Glad you know some scripture. Hope you are not just cutting a pasting from some atheist site. But satan knows the scripture better than any human.

 

[wxtornado]

But you know what. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you do not have a choice. I think you do, but I will tell you this, if there is no choice and God chose me from the beginning for salvation, I'm glad. If you are not, and from your post, I would say at this point you are not, I am sorry for you.

So your God, knowing I wouldn't believe, created me anyway, to be damned to hell?

 

[2ndAmendment]

So your God, knowing I wouldn't believe, created me anyway, to be damned to hell?

Maybe. Good luck with that.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Or as more likely I was baptised, did the First Communion, and Confirmation. Then through reading the Bible and finding "issues with it" (in both the prequel and sequel), and started thinking "outside the church" realized the "Way" wasnt for me, and lost any sense of meaning.

But its much easier to believe I cherry picked passages out of the Bible than to believe i've read it (and the book of other faiths) and can show you contradictory and mistaken statements.

Ah. Got your name erased.

Maybe you will truly see the light some day and have your name written back in. I can only hope that for you.

 

[PsyOps]

So your God, knowing I wouldn't believe, created me anyway, to be damned to hell?

If you so choose.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Reading in context reconciles it every time. Not hard. Just do it. Most seminaries, as I understand them, really don't teach the Bible. They teach the business of church. According to the information I have read on seminaries of the main stream denominations, the graduates have not read the entire Bible by the time they graduate. That's like trying to teach higher math and not ever studying calculus.

Mormon Seminary that every High school mormon goes too reads the whole Bible. One year is dedicated to the Old Test. One to the New Test as well as years dedicated to the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. I read the Bible cover to cover and studied it. It didn't make sense.

Some friends of mine who wen't on and took seminary classes at BYU try to pull me back in. They say in those classes they are taught to reconcile the inconsistancies. If you have to be taught to reconcile them, then that proves they are there.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Mormon Seminary that every High school mormon goes too reads the whole Bible. One year is dedicated to the Old Test. One to the New Test as well as years dedicated to the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants. I read the Bible cover to cover and studied it. It didn't make sense.

Some friends of mine who wen't on and took seminary classes at BYU try to pull me back in. They say in those classes they are taught to reconcile the inconsistancies. If you have to be taught to reconcile them, then that proves they are there.

I sympathize. I tried to read the Bible many times and could never get past the first chapter of Genesis. It flew in the face of what my teachers were teaching me. Then Jesus became my personal Savior, and all of a sudden it was clear as day or mostly. As the Bible says things of the Spirit are not understood by those not of the Spirit. I wasn't and couldn't; I was and could. I was blind but now I see.

Maybe one day for you, too. WX, knuckle, and all who are on the other side of the fence. I'll keep praying. Did today. I really don't want anyone I come in contact with to not find their way to Jesus.

 

[wxtornado]

I sympathize. I tried to read the Bible many times and could never get past the first chapter of Genesis. It flew in the face of what my teachers were teaching me. Then Jesus became my personal Savior, and all of a sudden it was clear as day or mostly. As the Bible says things of the Spirit are not understood by those not of the Spirit. I wasn't and couldn't; I was and could. I was blind but now I see.

So we need this special "spirit" or whatever you're talking about before the bible makes sense to us and we can "see"? Do you not see a problem with this?

 

[2ndAmendment]

So we need this special "spirit" or whatever you're talking about before the bible makes sense to us and we can "see"? Do you not see a problem with this?

I see a problem with you always trying to bait me and others into a debate when you are not interested in any opinions other than your own. Have a great day. Just said a prayer for you.

 

[Penn]

So we need this special "spirit" or whatever you're talking about before the bible makes sense to us and we can "see"? Do you not see a problem with this?

Please do not tell us that you have never heard of the Spirit of the Father?

Where I go does not use the word trinity. I think many churches don't but they do recognize the Father, Jesus (God the Father come as man), and the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of the Father), but emphasize ONE GOD. The concept of trinity was not part of the original church (body of believers) and the word trinity is not in the Bible. The concept or expression of trinity was not brought to prevalence until after the First Council of Nicaea. But even with the concept of trinity, there is only one God.

You see, many of us have asked the Holy Spirit to come into our hearts and souls, to show us the way to understanding and salvation. We've tried to go through life following our own paths, but we realise that it just wasn't working out the way we had hoped.

I don't know the mind of God, and everything He says in the Bible; however some questions I had, (the ones I just couldn't figure out no matter which way I read a particular piece of scripture) became clearer after I asked Him to come into my heart.

I realise I'm never going to understand everything I read in the Bible, while I'm here on this earth. Heck, a fellow named Nicodemus had a conversation with Jesus, way back then. He was a member of the Pharisees, a very learned religious man indeed, and even he could not see.

That is what 2nd A meant when he said "I was blind, but now I see."

 

[PsyOps]

So we need this special "spirit" or whatever you're talking about before the bible makes sense to us and we can "see"? Do you not see a problem with this?

From a textual and historical standpoint no, the bible is relatively easy to understand. From a spiritual standpoint, once you accept Christ, it opens your eyes to things in a completely different way. It makes no sense trying to explain it to someone that rejects this kind of thinking. It also makes not sense to try and make sense out of things spiritual. From that point of view I do see a problem with trying to reason with a committed non-believer. How can you understand something that you reject? If you are trying to convince believers that they are wrong in their beliefs, only because this is your opinion, all you do is solidify their beliefs.

 

[Penn]

From a textual and historical standpoint no, the bible is relatively easy to understand. From a spiritual standpoint, once you accept Christ, it opens your eyes to things in a completely different way. It makes no sense trying to explain it to someone that rejects this kind of thinking. It also makes no sense to try and make sense out of things spiritual. From that point of view I do see a problem with trying to reason with a committed non-believer. How can you understand something that you reject?

If you are trying to convince believers that they are wrong in their beliefs, only because this is your opinion, all you do is solidify their beliefs.

I would say you are mostly correct here. When I first started reading the the Bible, I tried to be as open-minded as I thought I was able to. Most of the scripture was readily understandable it seemed, sometimes not. Maybe it was because the KJV is not necessarily an easy read, with verbs and adjectives often being reversed, etc.
I switched to a version called the New Living Translation, and it is, in fact, an easier read. Still though, I had questions that I had to run to my pastor, or the leader of a class I was taking, known as "Disciple", for their take on a certain passage, so I could try to get the message. Later, when I asked the Holy Spirit to come into me, I found the questions concerning certain passages less frequent, as if someone was guiding me through the stories and what they meant. Mind you, I do still see some ideas Jesus spoke of in the New Testament that still cause a now and then. Hey, maybe I just have to wait a little longer, until it becomes clearer; in this world or the next.

BTW I think your last statement is also true, if you substitute "non-believers" for the term believers.

 

[SMIB Sucks]

I have to say that I have read through most of this thread and while I do not believe in Chistianity; (I have my own thoughts and feelings that I do not want to get into on this thread) it's nice to know that people are comfortable and satisfied with their beliefs no matter what they are. There are always going to be people who will try to get into arguments over religion (I am guilty of that myself, and it is kind of fun). But if you are comfortable with what you believe and it makes you feel safe and content...that's all you need, IMHO.

On a side note about the bible...it was written by many different people who although had the same overall views and beliefs, they i'm sure had different takes on what jesus was saying. That's my take on it anyway...(Sorry about the no caps on jesus, but it just doesn't work for me.)