Article: "Lying in Islam"

[Starman3000m]

Peace terms do not need much cooperation at all.

Except 100% effort. Have you ever heard of a successful peace plan that was not accepted by 100% of those involved? Dissention, unrest and struggle flare up among those who were not 100% in agreement.

In fact the Islamic people are asking for reletively little.

Hmmm... destruction of the little nation of Israel? Expulsion of Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula as commanded by Muhammad?

"It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim."
(Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4366)

Justice in Palestine and military out of Holy lands, while the USA has no real peace plan except for total surrender and servitude without even an offer of justice or truth.

Article (19) Armed struggle is a strategy and not a tactic, and the Palestinian Arab People's armed revolution is a decisive factor in the liberation fight and in uprooting the Zionist existence, and this struggle will not cease unless the Zionist state is demolished and Palestine is completely liberated.

Article (22) Opposing any political solution offered as an alternative to demolishing the Zionist occupation in Palestine, as well as any project intended to liquidate the Palestinian case or impose any international mandate on its people.

Article (24) Maintaining relations with all liberal forces supporting our just struggle in order to resist together Zionism and imperialism.

Source: : http://www.fateh.net/e_public/constitution.htm

And, excerpts from HAMAS Covenants:

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

Article Eight: “Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.”
Source: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm

I agree with that second part, but that first line is not correct because God is on both sides and every side of every event.

He was on Adolf Hitler's side helping Hitler to lose for Hitler's own benefit.

We must not limit God to one sided.

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. (Matthew 12:30)
-Words of Jesus

Jesus Christ called it like a two edged sword that cuts both ways.

Actually, that is a reference to God's Word: The Sword of Truth is what divides Truth from Error:

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

Regarding the literal sword, Jesus said:
"Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." (Matthew 26:52)

By Comparison, Muhammad commanded his followers to take up the sword:

"...let it be known to you that Paradise is under the shades of swords." He then said,, "O Allah! The Revealer of the (Holy) Book, the Mover of the clouds, and Defeater of Al-Ahzab (i.e. the clans of ), defeat them infidels and bestow victory upon us."
(Sahih Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 52, Number 210, Narrated Salim Abu An-Nadr)

Those are just translations into the Aramaic language.

Allah is not for YahWeh / Jehovah - Allah comes from Elohim that english translate as God.

The name of Jesus is translated from the Hebrew Yeshua and in Aramaic it is Isa.

So the Muslims of Islam do know what they are talking about.

1. Al'lah is Arabic for "The God"

2. Aramaic translations of a "name" translated from Hebrew, Latin or Greek is not the difference I am referring to. The difference is the theological interpretations when comparing Islam to Judeo-Christian teachings of the Biblical Prophets and Patriarchs.

3. Muslims do not believe Jesus is The Son of God and teach that He is a lesser prophet than Muhammad. Therefore, Muslims do not believe in the same Jesus of the New Testament.

4. Muslims do not believe in the same "Creator God" as Judeo-Christian faiths
by the very teaching that Al'lah commanded angels to bow down to Adam.
Yahweh NEVER commanded the angels to bow to Adam, therefore, Muslims do not follow the same God of the Holy Bible.

"It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who prostrate." (Qur'an: 007.011)

And as for Moses, Islamic theology teaches that his clothes were "stolen by a stone" while Moses was bathing in a lake. So you see, even the Islamic Moses is not the same Moses of The Holy Bible.

Is that what you believe?

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Except 100% effort. Have you ever heard of a successful peace plan that was not accepted by 100% of those involved? Dissention, unrest and struggle flare up among those who were not 100% in agreement.

That is far from correct. The USA civil war ended with surrender and peace terms and many people did not like the situation on both sides. There are still people today that do not 100% accept our civil war as being settled.

The islamic people will celebrate the day that the USA finally turns back to God.

Plus Islam like every other religion on earth respects Jesus Christ.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Starman3000m,
Don't waste your time with JPC, Sr. He understands very little about the Bible or much of anything except from his own bewildering point of view. Logic is foreign to his processing ability.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Starman3000m,
Don't waste your time with JPC, Sr. He understands very little about the Bible or much of anything except from his own bewildering point of view. Logic is foreign to his processing ability.

If you had some thing to add to the thread topic,

then I think that is the point.

 

[This_person]

If you had some thing to add to the thread topic,

then I think that is the point.

He did add something. Something of great value. Hopefully Starman will follow the advice.

 

[2ndAmendment]

If you had some thing to add to the thread topic,

then I think that is the point.

You post falsehoods and miss-lead people. You lie. You are ignorant of the Bible and the legal system. The only reason anyone reads what you post is to see how stupid you are going to make yourself this time. You are tolerated for your "entertainment value" and that is wearing out for all but the new and those that are addicted to watching train wrecks.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

You post falsehoods and miss-lead people. You lie. You are ignorant of the Bible and the legal system. The only reason anyone reads what you post is to see how stupid you are going to make yourself this time. You are tolerated for your "entertainment value" and that is wearing out for all but the new and those that are addicted to watching train wrecks.

Allah is God, and God is Allah.

 

[Starman3000m]

Allah is God, and God is Allah.

Hmmmm.... actually, Al'lah may be your god but Al'lah is Definitely NOT Yahweh:

Herein is the Difference:

- Yahweh NEVER commanded His angels to bow down prostrate to Adam.

- Yahweh NEVER authorized mankind to honor and kiss a stone. (Ka'ba)

- Yahweh NEVER authorized men to beat their wives.

- And, Yahweh NEVER stated that Jesus would have 1000 wives as taught in Islamic theology:

"Allah, the Highest, revealed to Jesus:
'O Jesus, travel from one place to another
least you should be known and harmed
by My Might and My Glory.
I will let you marry a thousand Houris
and I will make a feast for four hundred years for you.'

Translated from Aramaic into Arabic by al-Ghazali (505/1111)
Translated from Arabic into English by Shaykh Ahmad Darwish
Source: The Mosque of the Internet
http://www.mosque.com/jesusays.html

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Hmmmm.... actually, Al'lah may be your god but Al'lah is Definitely NOT Yahweh:

Allah is translated from the Hebrew word Elohim and not from Yahweh.

So is the english word "God" comes from Elohim and not from Yahweh.

The name Yahweh is very special while Elohim is more general in usage.

Translated from Aramaic into Arabic by al-Ghazali (505/1111)
Translated from Arabic into English by Shaykh Ahmad Darwish
Source: The Mosque of the Internet
http://www.mosque.com/jesusays.html

That is not the Quran and it is a text from 505 - 1111 A.D. so it is meaningless.

We could compare it to Christian writings during the first Crusade into the Arab held Holy lands if we just want to smear religions.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Maybe before you jump on one belief, because of passages in their instruction manual, you should make sure yours doesnt have similiar passages.

Excuse it all you want, the Christian Bible has almost the EXACT same passages as the Muslim bible, as such if your going to use one to belittle the religion, then you need to make the same criticisms about Christianity.

I do agree, and I would add that the Quran was very much based on the old and new Testiments of our Bible.

Muhammed in the Quran referenced the old Testiment and the New Testiment throughout the Quran.

This is why many people call the Quran the last book of the Bible.

A website that quotes the Quran as granting the Jews and Christians the same status with Islam is Link click HERE.

Islam is our sister religion.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Nucklesack and JPC, Sr. allied in their religious opinion. Now there is a pair to pay attention to.

 

[Starman3000m]

I do agree, and I would add that the Quran was very much based on the old and new Testiments of our Bible.

Muhammed in the Quran referenced the old Testiment and the New Testiment throughout the Quran.

This is why many people call the Quran the last book of the Bible.

A website that quotes the Quran as granting the Jews and Christians the same status with Islam is Link click HERE.

Islam is our sister religion.

Hmmm... let's take a closer look at one observation:

"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus."

- Thomas Jefferson
( in a letter to W. Canby, September 18, 1813)
Source: The Great Thoughts by George Seldes, Ballantine Books, NY (Page 230)


Indeed, Muhammad adopted and included the Old Testament Judaic laws of punishment and developed them into what is now meted out through Shari'a.
This was a total DISREGARD of the teachings of Jesus so it amazes me how Islam can claim it "reveres the prophet Isa' " when it teaches the contrary to what He said:

Jesus said, "...Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(Matthew 22:37-40)

"...Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (Matthew 26:52)

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
...
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you" (Matthew 5:38-44)

Islam wants to wipe Israel off the map and aspires to establish a worldwide theocratic rule of a Caliphate. That is not a "smear" or a "belittlement" toward the religion of Islam; that is stating the facts and EXPOSING what has been proclaimed by Islamic leaders, both theologically and politically.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I can do it too, 2A and JPC Sr allied in their Abortion opinion, Now there is a pair to pay attention to

But we all know your agenda when it comes to Christianity. Down Christians and Christianity and post anything you can to be derogatory. So, I take what post for what it is worth ... nothing. You always post the same thing. Not worth my time to read.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Islam wants to wipe Israel off the map and aspires to establish a worldwide theocratic rule of a Caliphate. That is not a "smear" or a "belittlement" toward the religion of Islam; that is stating the facts and EXPOSING what has been proclaimed by Islamic leaders, both theologically and politically.

Your point WAS that Islam lies but you keep using quotes references that are cold honest and straight forward.

If the USA keeps following the ignorant path of our great Christian leader then we will face the wrath of God - and rightly so.

And the Israel Jews started the hostilities with the Palestinians and now they reap the fruit of their injustices.

The USA could learn from Israel and make peace now while it is still possible.

But our big Christian leader can not make peace, their is no peace plan.

The USA is being honest too, the administration wants more war and demands that we capture, torture or kill all the enemy and so the little war of Bin Laden is escalating out of the Christian control.

I agree with the Muslims that we need peace with justice. They offer a peace plan.

 

[Starman3000m]

Nucklesack:

Regarding all those Thomas Jefferson quotes that you posted:
Yes, I have seen them all before and this is PROOF POSITIVE that Thomas Jefferson was very much a politician, eh?
Spoke to all sides telling them what they each wanted to hear. LOL.
That's exactly what is going on in Washington today with most ALL Politicians.!!!

BTW: I am confident in my relationship with my Creator and am also for each
individual choosing what they wish to believe or not believe in regard
to a Supreme Being. I cannot judge nor am I called to be the judge; can
only share of my personal experiences. Throughout the years, I have
listened to countless religious denominational messages and studied
various doctrines of faith and Atheistic ideologies that it really leads to one conclusion. There Is Only One Truth:

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

 

[Starman3000m]

Your point WAS that Islam lies but you keep using quotes references that are cold honest and straight forward.

No, JPC sr, you missed the point somewhere. The original point is that "telling a lie" is permitted if it aids a Muslim in advancing the religion of Islam. Muhammad taught that deception was permitted, according to the Ahadith.

In other words, Islam does not mean "peace" as many Islamic Public-Relations groups want the American people to believe; Islam means "Submission."

It is the intent of Islam to cause all other ideologies, whether by deceptive persuasion or by force, to submit to Al'lah, accept Muhammad as a prophet and be ruled by Shari'a Laws. While you boast about peace under Islam you forget that all non-Muslims including women, atheists, agnostic will all lose their rights.

Are the Maryland voters aware of your support for Islamic Laws instead of the U.S. Constitution? The two are non-compatible, you know.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

In other words, Islam does not mean "peace" as many Islamic Public-Relations groups want the American people to believe; Islam means "Submission."

Islam means submission as submission to God, not to Islam.

And we are not fighting against the religion of Islam and its 1.4 Billion members.

If you want to expand the war as a religious war against the Muslims of Islam then you will not find many people that will agree with it.

It is the intent of Islam to cause all other ideologies, whether by deceptive persuasion or by force, to submit to Al'lah, accept Muhammad as a prophet and be ruled by Shari'a Laws. While you boast about peace under Islam you forget that all non-Muslims including women, atheists, agnostic will all lose their rights.

The Shia or Shiite part of Islam is the smaller group from the Sunni Islam, and the religions of Islam are not at war with the USA or with Christianity and not at war with anyone. Islam is a strict and disciplined and peaceful religion.

Islam does have some criminal elements in the religion but so does every body else.

They do not want hostilities or war, they like many of us want peace with justice.

 

[Starman3000m]

Islam means submission as submission to God, not to Islam.

Let's be completely truthful:

Islam means submitting to A'lah, the Islamic god which in turn means submitting to the tenets of the fundamental Islamic social/political/theological lifestyle as set forth by the Qur'an - which in turn means submitting to Shari'a laws as derived from the Qur'an.

And we are not fighting against the religion of Islam and its 1.4 Billion members.

Correct. It is the 7th-century fundamental ideology of Islam that is fighting against non-Muslim civilizations and the 21st century Freedoms that Western Societies live by today. Western societies are only defending the right to live in Freedom.

If you want to expand the war as a religious war against the Muslims of Islam then you will not find many people that will agree with it.

Ever heard of the Islamic terms of Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb? It is the Islamic obligation to war against non-Muslims until the end of the world as their "religious duty." Even Hamas agrees:

Article Fifteen, Paragraph 2: (HAMAS Covenants)
“It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Moslem generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis.”

The Shia or Shiite part of Islam is the smaller group from the Sunni Islam, and the religions of Islam are not at war with the USA or with Christianity and not at war with anyone. Islam is a strict and disciplined and peaceful religion.

Yes, Islam is strict; Yes, Islam is disciplined; but, "peaceful" ????
Shi'a and Sunni have been at odds with each other since the year 632 over which has the authoritative right of succession to rule the Muslims. Kinda like Democrats and Republicans who are in an ongoing struggle to attain leadership of the American government. Thank God (literally) that the differences between the two parties do not result in extreme violence against one another as is the case between Sunni and Shi'a.

Islam does have some criminal elements in the religion but so does every body else.

Of course there are criminal elements in all facets of the world societies; secular, atheistic, religious, agnostic - but the big difference is that fundamental Islam approves of Muslims to engage in criminal acts of "honor killings" against those who leave Islam; Persecutions against non-Muslims and striking terror in the hearts of societies who do not accept Islam as the "true religion".

“Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!” (Qur’an:003.151)

“Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.”
(Qur’an:047.004)


Muslims threatened with punishment by Allah if they do not fight:

“Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.” (Qur’an:009.039)

They do not want hostilities or war, they like many of us want peace with justice.

I believe this to be true of only the general population of "Moderate Muslims" who do not agree completely with the obligations placed upon them through the Qur'an and Sharia'. Problem is, they are targeted just as much by the fundamental Islamists for being an "apostate" and therefore are in danger of being threatened or killed as commanded by Muhammad.

"... I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, where-ever you find them, kill them, for who-ever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection."
Source: (Sahih Bukhari: Volume 9, Book 84, Number 64, Narrated 'Ali)

Sharia' mandates that any Muslim who leaves the Islamic faith is to be killed.

Do the voters in Maryland know that you favor and support the Islamic rule of Sharia' over the U.S. Constitution?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Starman3000m, You are stating facts, but JPC, Sr. ignores facts. He prefers his own miss interpretation of law, Bible, Qur'an, and virtually everything else. Fact means nothing to him unless it accidentally falls into his realm of belief. Convincing him with facts and logic is an exercise in futility.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

I see this as Bin Landen's doing and it is hard not to admire our opponent in such big accomplishments.

Bin has sent steady fear into the American heartland,

and this is our biggest threat - the fear - the terror,

now Bush and the USA has real enemies in our own homeland.

If the USA tries to comfront Islam then we will be putting 1.4 billion muslims under the rule of Bin Laden.

And it is done needlessly out of religious bigotry and mindless fear.