Article: "Lying in Islam"

[Starman3000m]

You have fallen into the same trap as 2ndAmendment. Instead of actually taking the time to find out about a different religion, you rely on others to interepret it for you.

If you are going to take the verses out of context, imagine how much fun could be made with the Christian Bibles verses. (and no 2a i dont take them out of context, typically i will post the ENTIRE verse, not a paraphrase like you will)

I'm not defending JPC and his Christianity and Islam are sister religions, but i am refuting your mischaracterization of a different religion.

You have fallen into the same trap as 2ndAmendment. Instead of actually taking the time to find out about a different religion, you rely on others to interepret it for you.

With all due respect, Nucklesack, I have taken the time to find out about many different religions after questioning the interpretations and half-truths that others claim to be true. Read the Qur'an in its entirety as well as several Ahadith (sayings of Muhammad) that are widely accepted in fundamental Islamic theology.

If you are going to take the verses out of context, imagine how much fun could be made with the Christian Bibles verses. (and no 2a i dont take them out of context, typically i will post the ENTIRE verse, not a paraphrase like you will)

You are engaging in the obvious cop-out by claiming that what I have presented are verses taken "out-of-context." Therefore, I leave it up to you to please provide the accurate context of what has been submitted:

If you or anyone else cannot provide the accurate and true context of the following text, then the claims made herein stand as presented:

Preface: "Yahweh" = the Deity of Judeo-Christian faith as written in The Holy Bible;

"Al'lah" = the Deity of Islamic theology as written in the Qur'an and Ahadith.


Please provide the accurate context of the following claims:

Yahweh NEVER commanded His angels to bow down prostrate to Adam.
Al’lah Did: Qur’an: (002.034) (007.011) (015.028 - .030)

Yahweh NEVER authorized mankind to honor and kiss a stone. (Ka'ba)
Muhammad Did and Muslims still do to this day as a prescribed ritual during their pilgrimage (hajj) to Mecca.
(Sunan Muslim, Book 007, Number 2912 - 2916)
(Malik’s Muwatta: Book 20, Number 20.34.116)
(Qur’an: 022.027-.030)


Yahweh NEVER authorized men to beat their wives.
Al’lah Did: Qur’an: (004.032)

Yahweh NEVER authorized His prophets to have multiple wives- as many as the prophet desired, nor did Yahweh authorize men to have up to four wives.
Al’lah Did: Qur’an: (033.050) (004.003)

Yahweh NEVER promised a “paradise” filled with dark-eyed voluptuous women (virgins) as a “reward” to the “righteous.”
Al’lah Did: Qur’an: (037.040-.049) (056.035-.036) (078.031-.033)

Yahweh NEVER said the women were second-class citizens and comprised the greatest amount of residents in hell.
Muhammad Did: (Sahih Bukhari: Vol. 7, Book 62, No. 126)

If Muhammad is a prophet of Al'lah, Muhammad definitely cannot be a prophet of Yahweh.

Conclusion: Al'lah Is Not Yahweh and when Islamic theology says they are the same, (Qur'an 029.046) it is another lie that has been permitted in order to deceive unsuspecting and theologically un-informed non-Muslims; Christians and Jews.

I'm not defending JPC and his Christianity and Islam are sister religions, but i am refuting your mischaracterization of a different religion.

No problem Nucklesack. Thank you for refuting. Now please do some homework and prove to us that there has been a "mischaracterization of a different religion" in what I have submitted.

 

[Starman3000m]

Uh, Not so fast Nucklesack. Your original claim is that I had "mischaracterized another religion" and quoted its verses "out of context."

Your responses are based on an apologetics approach but did not support your claim that I had based the conclusions "out of context." What's more, your responses even agree for example that Allah commanded angels to bow down to Adam and that Allah directly allowed Muhammad to have as many wives as he wanted and that the rest of the Muslim men could have up to four (4) wives. Then you accuse me of being "jealous." lol

Your responses show that Islam teaches exactly what was posted and that by exposing those verses it in no way "mischaracterized that religion" nor were the verses presented "out of context."

My posts presented the Truth for what has been written and accepted to be true by Muslims. Your attempted rebuttal did not prove me wrong it only added your personal "spin" against Christianity as a red herring and avoided the real issue which was: Did Allah say bow down to Adam? The answer: YES ! Did Yahweh? The answer: NO! etc.

Nice try anyway.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Allah directly allowed Muhammad to have as many wives as he wanted and that the rest of the Muslim men could have up to four (4) wives.

That concept actually comes from our Christian Bible in the references to the Patriarch Jacob that had 4 wives (or 2 wives plus 2 other women) and so the Muslims get that info of "4 wives" from the Bible book of Genesis, see link HERE.

 

[Starman3000m]

That concept actually comes from our Christian Bible in the references to the Patriarch Jacob that had 4 wives (or 2 wives plus 2 other women) and so the Muslims get that info of "4 wives" from the Bible book of Genesis, see link HERE.

The Truth is that the Bible also indicates the problems that the Patriarchs got into with the wives that they took for themselves out of God's Will.
Had God intended for man to have more than one (1) wife, God would have created Eve, Betty, Joann, and Darlene to be Adam's "helpmates." lol

The God of the Holy Bible NEVER authorized men to have more than one wife and it is supported by New Testament Scripture. Men became polygamous out of their own doing and out of the will of God.

1.) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (1 Timothy 3:2)

2.) Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. (1 Timothy 3:12)

3.) If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. : For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;(Titus 1:6-8)


BTW: Ever really notice that all of Muhammad's "revelations" came via another spiritual source? Yahweh did not speak directly to Muhammad as is the case with the True Prophets that were sent by Yahweh. Hmmm...

Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. (Jeremiah 14:14)

You are still in my prayers, JPC sr, and now I have added Nucklesack to the prayer list.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. (Jeremiah 14:14)

This saying of Jeremiah was written many years before Jesus and long before the Quran was ever written.

It is talking about the false prophets in the Bible.

You are still in my prayers, JPC sr, and now I have added Nucklesack to the prayer list.

I say no secret prayers for you or anyone else.

I believe if one has some thing to say then say it and if something to do then do it.

The modern concept of prayer is so very wrong.

 

[Starman3000m]

Not so fast yourself, you did attempt to mischaracterize the religion, most likely its a lack of understanding of its beliefs. But its nice of you to gloss over the salient points that refute your anti-Islam diatribe.

• Notice you ignored the whole stone issue, get a little uncomfortable having a like example of Stone worship?

• 
  
  Actually, Nucklesack, I thought you were already aware that "stone worship" has always been an abomination before Yahweh. And not only stone; there is to be no golden idols, wooden idols, alabaster idols, plastic idols, etc. that people are to bow down and pay reverence to:
  
  Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 19:4)
  
  Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.(Leviticus 26:1)
  
  (Just a few of many verses forbidding idolatry)
  
  

  [*]Does the Q'uran say its ok to beat your wife? No as a matter of fact the verse you said proclaims that actually tells you not to Covet what another has earned. The Q'uran does state, verse 2:228,
  
  Seems Allah, treats women in a higher regard than you portray.

  
  Hmmm, thought you said you had read the Qur'an. Which version? Here are three widely accepted versions of .004.034)
  
  Men are permitted to beat their wives for being disobedient.
  
  “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).” (The Qur’an: 004.034)
  (Two other Qur’anic translations permitting the “beating” of wives:
  “…banish them to beds apart and scourge them” Translation by Pickthal, and;
  “…leave them alone in the sleeping places and beat them.” Translation by Shakir)
  
  

  [*]Does the Q'uran say to treat a woman as a second class citizen? No but the Christian Bible, both the Prequel and Sequel, tells you Women are the cause of all sins, not smart enough to understand, and must Submit to their husband. (as the verses in Timothy 2:xx, 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 , Ephesians 5:22-24 , Colossians 3:18 , 1 Peter 3:1, explain), so which one has Women Rights issues? (and before you try, both religions have bastardized the verses, we are talking about the scripture, not the practice of men)

  
  Jesus elevated the status of women in society. As far as their role in the household, yes, there are certain assignments given but this makes the women no lesser of a person in regard to the husband. Also, Jesus saw it fit to forgive a woman caught in adultry (John 8:5-11) while the "Mosaic laws" said that the woman should be stoned to death. Muhammad found no forgiveness for adulterous women and, per Al'lah's command, had them stoned to death. This practice was one of the four forms of capital punishment in Judaic Laws which Muhammad incorporated in Shari'a and continues to be practiced to this day.
  
  In regard to the context of how the New Testament deals with husbands and wives working together as one:
  
  (Ephesians, Chapter 5)
  21: Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
  22: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
  23: For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
  24: Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
  25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
  26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
  27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
  28: So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
  29: For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
  30: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
  31: For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
  32: This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
  33: Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
  
  and:
  Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. (Colossians 3:19)
  
  

  [*]Wives issue, who cares? Once again it was common practice in Biblical times for a man to have more than one wife, as long as that man could afford them. And even the Christian Bible, in many verses (Gen.4:19 , Gen.31:17 , Gen.32:22 , Ex.21:10 , Deuteronomy 21:15 , Judges 8:30 , 1 Samuel 1:1-2 , 2 Samuel 12:7-8 , 2 Chronicles 11:21 , 2 Chronicles 24:3 , I'm going to save Mathew 25:1) has no issue with husbands with multiple wives and even praises both the men, and the fact they have multiple wives. So tell us, whats the difference?

  
  The difference being that mankind has been disobedient to Yahweh in many things such as carrying on by taking multiple wives. Yahweh did not sanction it while Al'lah did.
  
  

  [*]Kneel before Adam Yes the Q'uran does say that, but once again, So? The parable was how Allah put Mankind above his Angels, and Iblis took issue with it, its a story about the rise of Islams Satan.

  
  Thanks for agreeing that there is no mischaracterization here nor conclusion based on verses taken "out of context." That is one of the examples pertaining to the fact that Islam lies when it claims that Al'lah and Yahweh are the same deity. Even you are seeing this while there are many theologically uninformed Christians and Jews and Moderate Muslims who have been led to believe they are the same.
  
  
  

  The Christian Satan’s fall, occurred somewhere after the time the angels were created and before he tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (scripture does not specifically say when he fell). So there isnt a corrolary between the 2 religions.

  
  Satan was cast out of Heaven when he gathered one-third of the angels and attempted a mutiny against Yahweh in an effort to be "like the Most High." This fall from Grace was caused by pride.
  
  BTW: According to Islamic teaching, Allah is a "prideful God."
  "On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said: Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said: Pride is my cloak and greatness My robe, and he who competes with Me in respect of either of them I shall cast into Hell-fire. It was related by Abu Dawud (also by Ibn Majah and Ahmad) with sound chains of authority." (Hadith Qudsi 19)
  
  
  

  But once again, there isnt any verses about men (or women) submitting in the Bible?

Of course:

Rom:10:3: For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (Romans 10:3)

Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
(Hebrews 13:7)

Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. (1 Peter 5:5)

 

[Starman3000m]

This saying of Jeremiah was written many years before Jesus and long before the Quran was ever written.

It is talking about the false prophets in the Bible.

Yes, and Jesus spoke of the may false prophets who would come after His earthly ministry.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:11-14)

I say no secret prayers for you or anyone else.

I believe it is no secret that I am praying for you. Also, sincere prayers to The True God are not secret to Him; God hears and answers according to His Will.

I believe if one has some thing to say then say it and if something to do then do it.
The modern concept of prayer is so very wrong.

Depends on what you mean by "modern concept of prayer." Here is what Jesus said in regard to prayer:

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet* and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking...
Complete context: (Matthew 6:6-15)

"...and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me." (Mark 7:6)


* My personal belief for the meaning of the term "closet" in Matthew 6:6 is the spiritual inner-being of an individual who is in private worship to Yahweh, shutting out distractions of the surroundings so as to be in tune with the One and Only Almighty Creator.

You and Nucklesack are in my prayers.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Yes, and Jesus spoke of the may false prophets who would come after His earthly ministry.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:11-14)

I see that you believe that the 1.4 billion Muslims are all wrong,

and that Islam is wrong and the Quran is wrong and Muhammed too,

but I see you as being wrong.

 

[kwillia]

I see that you believe that the 1.4 billion Muslims are all wrong,

and that Islam is wrong and the Quran is wrong and Muhammed too,

but I see you as being wrong.

Dur, if he is a believer in Jesus and the word of God, then "Yes" to all of the above.

Do you even know what the definition of "christianity" is...

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Do you even know what the definition of "christianity" is...

Not everyone defines "Christianity" as intolerant bigots, only some of them are.

The original name of Christianity (Greek = Christos) came from the Romans of Antioch as a taunt or name calling of the followers of Christ, link HERE.

 

[Starman3000m]

The Bible and Q'uran Agree,..

Sorry, Nucklesack, but the Holy Bible and Qur'an Do Not Agree on many many points. And if there are any "agreements" or "similarities" it is only because they were plagiarised by Muhammad and incorporated into the Qur'an; in other words they were not "New Revelations" at all.

That said, I do find that you are finally realising that the Qur'an of Islam cannot be equated with that of the Holy Bible of the Judeo-Christian faiths. We can go round and round on an endless debate arguing verses point by point but in the final analysis There Is Only One Truth to this matter.

Conclusion: The Islamic Deity “Allah” is NOT the same Deity of the Holy Bible.

Thus, if Muhammad is a prophet of Al'lah, Muhammad definitely cannot be a prophet of Yahweh.

Muhammad's Deception (LIE) to "the People of The Book"

"…We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."
(The Qur'an, 029.046)

Al'lah Is Not Yahweh and when Islamic apologists say they are the same, (Qur'an 029.046) it is another lie that has been permitted in order to deceive unsuspecting and theologically un-informed non-Muslims; Christians and Jews.

As far as the origination of Muhammad's "Revelations," the Qur'an mentions from whence they came:

YUSUFALI: (This is) the Revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt,- from the Lord of the Worlds.
PICKTHAL: The revelation of the Scripture whereof there is no doubt is from the Lord of the Worlds.
SHAKIR: The revelation of the Book, there is no doubt in it, is from the Lord of the worlds. (Qur’an 032.002)

Any idea about who could possibly be "the Lord of the worlds" ?

Hint:

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Corinthians 4:3-6)

“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:14-15)

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” (Galatians 1:8-10)

It's your decision to continue to trust your faith in what Muhammad said; as for me, I believe in what Jesus said:

"...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14;6]

 

[Starman3000m]

I see that you believe that the 1.4 billion Muslims are all wrong,

and that Islam is wrong and the Quran is wrong and Muhammed too,

but I see you as being wrong.

My post (above) to Nucklsack should pretty well sum this up. No need in posting the info twice.

You and Nucklesack are still in my prayers.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

My post (above) to Nucklsack should pretty well sum this up. No need in posting the info twice.

You and Nucklesack are still in my prayers.

I think you are just a religious bigot,

and ol' Bin Laden has scared the crap out of you.

 

[Starman3000m]

"There Is Only One Truth to this matter" to you and other followers of your faith, to Muslims there is a Different Truth, and its not the same as you believe.

Totally Agree!!!!
If There Is Only ONE GOD, There is ONLY ONE TRUTH.

Apparently you and JPC sr believe Muhammad:

According to Islam, only Muhammad, not Jesus, can open the doors to Paradise:
"Jesus (peace be upon him) would say: I am not in a position to do that (open Paradise)
So they would come to Muhammad (may peace be upon him). He would then be permitted (to open the door of Paradise)."(Sahih Muslim Book, Book 001, Number 0380)

Muhammad claims that all mankind will be gathered at his feet:

“Jubair b. Mut'im reported on the authority of his father that he heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I am Muhammad and I am Ahmad, and I am al-Mahi (the obliterator) by whom unbelief would be obliterated, and I am Hashir (the gatherer) at whose feet mankind will be gathered, and I am 'Aqib (the last to come) after whom there will be no Prophet." (Sahih Muslim, Book 030, Number 5810)

Muhammad's advice about young girls and women in "paradise":

“When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, ‘What type of lady have you married?’ I replied, ‘I have married a matron.’ He said, ‘Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?’ Jabir also said: ‘Allah's Apostle said, ‘Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?’’’
(Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17, Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah)

"As to the Righteous (they will be) in a position of Security, Among Gardens and Springs; Dressed in fine silk and in rich brocade, they will face each other;
So; and We shall join them to fair women with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes." (Qur'an." 044.051 - 044.054)

"Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfillment of (the heart's) desires;
Gardens enclosed, and grapevines; And voluptuous women of equal age;"
(Qur'an: 078.031 - 078.033)

I'm banking my faith and eternity on what Jesus had to say on this matter:

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."(John 14:6)




(Starman exits shaking the dust from his feet)

 

[Starman3000m]

I think you are just a religious bigot,

and ol' Bin Laden has scared the crap out of you.

No fear at all. It is Osama bin Laden who should be in fear. (Hmmm guess he already is since he's hiding somewhere)

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
(Matthew 10:28) also Reference (Luke:12:4-5)

Thanks for calling me a "religious bigot" I have been called worse! lol

Actually, JPC sr, I am a sinner saved by the Grace of God through the Atoning Blood of Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour. Through this faith I and anyone else who believes by faith that Jesus Is The Son of God have become a "Child of God." My life changed - not through religion - but by God's Saving Grace and Mercy on my soul.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5)


"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? (Matthew 5:44-47)

You and Nucklesack are still in my prayers.

 

[Starman3000m]

Uh no actually i think all of you are delusional. Ask 2a, i'm a Christ punching atheist (i keed i keed)

And just as it is with Hindu's, Buddhists, Aztecs, Egyptians, Rock Worshippers and Pagans (i think) they all feel their God(s) is the ONE and the Truth.

The only issue i have is you saying they are wrong and you are right, its not because i'm a believer, its because to me you all are wrong (lol)

lol.
The funniest quote on religious ideology that I have heard was from the movie "Fiddler on the Roof" which stated something to this effect:
"If everyone lived by 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth' the whole world would become blind and toothless!"

As noted in an earlier post, Jesus thwarted that specific approach which Talmudic and Islamic teachings incorporate when in Matthew 5 He stated:

38: Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth
39: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40: And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41: And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42: Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43: Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45: That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46: For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47: And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

... do you tell your wife (if your married) that she better not talk or ask questions while in church? and to only go through to understand scripture?

Why not, you were instructed to.

The explanation I have heard about this problem was that during the 1st-Century church gatherings, men and women would sit in separate areas. During the sermons the women's group would engage in talking rather loudly as they discussed points of the sermon among themselves. This became rather disruptive and so the men were told to ask their wives/sisters, mothers, etc. to refrain from talking while the sermon was being delivered. And, if they had any questions to discuss it with their husbands. Apparently back then they did not have a "question and answer" period. Whether that explanation is true or not, I don't know, but something necessitated the order to have the women keep silent in an effort to keep order in the church and not having people talking out of line or being disruptive. The same is true of court systems when people talk out of line and disrupt the proceedings. The judge often must call for order.

Do you always talk in the third person?

Hmmm.... Must have been an out-of-body experience! lol

BTW, Nucklesack, I have no doubt that you are an intelligent individual and you are right to question everything that someone tells you. I like your thought-provoking comments and wish I could respond at length to each one, but then, you wouldn't agree with my responses anyway! lol Therefore, I answer sparingly, because as you have rightly stated, what is true for me is not true for another person. It all hinges on indoctrinations and whether a person is given the opportunity to investigate and challenge other ideologies in order to find Truth.

Remember that the beginning of this topic dealt with how Muslims are permitted to lie in order to advance the ideology of Islam. Although we have traveled into side discussions throughout these threads the fact remains that Muslim leaders and PR groups lie to Western Societies, Jews, Christians, Hindus, and, yes, even Atheists when they declare that Islam is a religion of peace. I believe you are intelligent enough to know that your future and that of America's future generations is at risk if the Islamic agenda is allowed to succeed in attaining the 7th-Century lifestyle as so ordered by Al'lah and Muhammad.

Conclusion: Islam DOES NOT Mean Peace and Al'lah IS NOT the same Deity of the Judeo-Christian faiths.

So, It Is A Lie when non-Muslims are expected to accept and believe that Muhammad was a peaceful guy and that he prayed to the same God that the "People of The Book" pray to.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
I've read (and yes 2a understand) the Bible, the Q'uran, the Talmud and read some from the "bibles" of other religions. It doesnt mean i agree with any of them, but i am able to talk to or about them.

...

You may be able to talk about the Bible, but you do not understand it. If you did, you would not talk about it the way you do. The Bible clearly states that things of the Spirit can only be understood by those of the Spirit. You, by your very posts, admit that you are not of the Spirit, therefore you cannot understand the Bible. You my understand the words you read, but you do not understand the Spiritual meaning of those words.

Of course you won't agree that you don't understand the Spiritual nature of the Bible, but that is part of your Spiritual blindness. I've been there. I know from experience. Hope that God removes the scales from your Spiritual eyes.

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

You may be able to talk about the Bible, but you do not understand it. If you did, you would not talk about it the way you do. The Bible clearly states that things of the Spirit can only be understood by those of the Spirit. You, by your very posts, admit that you are not of the Spirit, therefore you cannot understand the Bible. You my understand the words you read, but you do not understand the Spiritual meaning of those words.

Of course you won't agree that you don't understand the Spiritual nature of the Bible, but that is part of your Spiritual blindness. I've been there. I know from experience. Hope that God removes the scales from your Spiritual eyes.

It certainly must help in winning any dispute by having a "holier than thou" advantage over anyone that disagrees with thee.

But since the "spirit" is invisible and can be seen by words of truth, then perhaps it is "Nuclesack" that is being moved by the spirit in this thread and the "holier than thou's" are not so holy as they pretend.

The spirit must be tested to see if it be true or false and not persume one person is holier than others.

 

[Starman3000m]

It certainly must help in winning any dispute by having a "holier than thou" advantage over anyone that disagrees with thee.

But since the "spirit" is invisible and can be seen by words of truth, then perhaps it is "Nuclesack" that is being moved by the spirit in this thread and the "holier than thou's" are not so holy as they pretend.

The spirit must be tested to see if it be true or false and not persume one person is holier than others.

C'mon, JPC sr, with your logic EVERYONE including you can be accused of having a "holier than thou advantage" over anyone who disagrees with you just by your responses!

The Truth is: 2A rightly stated what the New Testament speaks of when we are told that:

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

And consider more spiritual things:

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (John 15:26)

Additionally, the relationship and communication with God through Christ is through the Holy Spirit of God who indwells those who have trusted in Jesus as Lord and Saviour. This is the "born again" experience that Jesus spoke of:

John Chapter 3:

1: There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4: Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Regarding your point about "testing the spirits." This was a warning to those who were already believers in Jesus and the warning was to be cognizent about False Prophets who would come along and claim that they were of God when they were not from God at all! The testing of the spirit could not be done unless one had the indwelling Holy Spirit of God to detect Truth from Error.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)

So, with that in mind, let's do a little testing of Nucklesack's spirit which you have cordially defended:


Posted 07-19-2007, 02:33 PM Post #54

originally posted by Nucklesack:
2A and JPC Sr allied in their Abortion opinion, Now there is a pair to pay attention to

Posted 07-24-2007, 10:26 AM Post #95

originally posted by Nucklesack:
I'm not defending JPC and his Christianity and Islam are sister religions, but i am refuting your mischaracterization of a different religion.

Posted 07-26-2007, 04:11 PM Post #112

originally posted by Nucklesack:
And remember i stated i wasnt agreeing or talking to JPC's idiocy.
Just refuting some of your "points"

Posted 07-27-2007, 09:35 AM Post #115

originally posted by Nucklesack:
The only issue i have is you saying they are wrong and you are right, its not because i'm a believer, its because to me you all are wrong

Conclusion: There Is Still Only ONE TRUTH.

That Truth will exist whether I agree with it or not and whether you and Nucklesack agree with it or not. Since we know where Nucklesack stands in his belief: The Question Now Is: Do you believe what Jesus said:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

or, do you believe what Muhammad said:

"The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: I am commanded to fight with men till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is His servant and His Apostle, face our qiblah (direction of prayer), eat what we slaughter, and pray like us. When they do that, their life and property are unlawful for us except what is due to them. They will have the same rights as the Muslims have, and have the same responsibilities as the Muslims have." (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 14, Number 2635, Narrated Anas ibn Malik)

"The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: ' If anyone suppresses anger when he
is in a position to give vent to it, Allah, the Exalted, will call him on the Day of Resurrection over the heads of all creatures, and ask him to choose any of the bright and large eyed maidens he wishes.'" (Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4759)

"Verily for the Righteous there will be a fulfillment of (the heart's) desires;
Gardens enclosed, and grapevines; And voluptuous women of equal age;"
(Qur'an: 078.031 - 078.033)

"The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: 'He who does not join the warlike expedition (jihad), or equip, or looks well after a warrior's family when he is away, will be smitten by Allah with a sudden calamity. Yazid ibn Abdu Rabbihi said in his tradition: 'before the Day of Resurrection'".
(Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 14, Number 2497)

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

And the Peanut Gallery is heard from. Have you read any of your Child Support threads? your attitude is no different

No, I say not.

I do not say that I am holier than thou or others, what I say is that the commandment of thou shal not steal is holier then stealing for child support.

This is a big difference, like hate the sin but not the sinner.

That 2A and Starman are pretending that it is they themselves that is holier than we are and so their words are right no matter what crap they preach.

I am only saying my words (Bible command) is correct and I am not holy at all.

My attitude might look that way but my words do not.