BLM - "Don't pull it out!" gets somehow interpreted as "you said to get his ID out."

[black dog]

From what I have been reading it seems this Officer does not have the proper temperament to be a police officer.
It appears he was panic stricken.
Not sure he should have been convicted of murder, but am pretty sure I wouldn't want him as my partner.
IMO he needs to find another career, he isn't cut out for this one.

A panicky cop is never a good thing.

 

[black dog]

After watching the dash cam footage, reading the incident report and details of the autopsy findings I got to say this is a no win For either side. Just completely ####ed up.

Castille's was high and the officer was tense and I suspect when Castille wasn't listening and keeping his hands in plain sight it flip the switch on the officer.

I tend to agree with what was said with respect to the officers temperament, he does seem a little hi strung for that job, but he's not guilty of murder or manslaughter. Mr. Castille in his impaired state bears much responsibility here, and it cost him his life. Drunk or high is no way to be concealed carry.

Where did it say he was High?
It stated he had thc in his system, that doesn't mean he was High.

 

[Wishbone]

Where did it say he was High?
It stated he had thc in his system, that doesn't mean he was High.

I may be incorrect here as I'm not much of a pothead but the THC, as far as I know, is the chemical to get you high.

I don't know what levels produce what results, like blood alcohol levels, but I see this as a problem just as much as if it had been alcohol. His behavior at the stop would be a partial indicator of how sharp he was that day.

Like I said, all around ####ed up. You can get pissed off at the cop, and as someone who is strongly in favor of concealed carry I certainly don't want to see how much a jumpy cops out there, but The deceased here shares responsibility. Unfortunately instead of learning a lesson it cost him his life.

 

[glhs837]

I may be incorrect here as I'm not much of a pothead but the THC, as far as I know, is the chemical to get you high.

I don't know what levels produce what results, like blood alcohol levels, but I see this as a problem just as much as if it had been alcohol. His behavior at the stop would be a partial indicator of how sharp he was that day.

Like I said, all around ####ed up. You can get pissed off at the cop, and as someone who is strongly in favor of concealed carry I certainly don't want to see how much a jumpy cops out there, but The deceased here shares responsibility. Unfortunately instead of learning a lesson it cost him his life.

It is, but the problem is that your body also stores it in fat cells, enough to trigger a positive on a test, but since it's tied up there, it's not making you high.

 

[Clem72]

This was going south as soon as that Officer decided to pull this car over..

Couple of yutes in a '64 Buick Skylark? Anyone could have made that mistake.

 

[Restitution]

After watching the video (twice) I think the whole situation is F'd up.

However, I am another on the side of the police officer. Bottom line, the officer told the driver at least 3 2 times "Don't reach for it." That to me instantly means to STOP, make my hands visible, and don't move. The driver obviously continued on with his motion and either ignored or was not capable of hearing the officer.

Split second decision on the officer's part. What if the guy was going for the gun. So sad!

 

[black dog]

After watching the video (twice) I think the whole situation is F'd up.

Split second decision on the officer's part. What if the guy was going for the gun. So sad!

So is it ok to shoot someone that just didn't listen to you... But yet hasn't done anything threatening?
His partner didn't see any gun....
Why not just backup and deescalate the situation... Call for more Officers and start over again...

 

[stgislander]

So is it ok to shoot someone that just didn't listen to you... But yet hasn't done anything threatening?
His partner didn't see any gun....
Why not just backup and deescalate the situation... Call for more Officers and start over again...

Maybe they are not trained to disengage.

 

[Gilligan]

So is it ok to shoot someone that just didn't listen to you...

No. But I've sure felt like slappin' em a few times.

 

[black dog]

Maybe they are not trained to disengage.

Hes not a Marine... Should we not expect more from our civil servants?
We don't shoot our enemies until a threat has seen, or we have been shot at.
But somehow sometimes citizens are fair game?

 

[officeguy]

After watching the video (twice) I think the whole situation is F'd up.

However, I am another on the side of the police officer. Bottom line, the officer told the driver at least 3 2 times "Don't reach for it." That to me instantly means to STOP, make my hands visible, and don't move. The driver obviously continued on with his motion and either ignored or was not capable of hearing the officer.

Its much harder to listen if you are stoned.





The same district attorneys office that routinely prosecutes pot offenders now turned around and claimed that his intoxication was not relevant. Hypocrites.

 

[hotbikermama40]

It is, but the problem is that your body also stores it in fat cells, enough to trigger a positive on a test, but since it's tied up there, it's not making you high.

It is a fat-soluble drug, like glhs says. What causes the 'high' however, is the ingestion into the lungs that enables it to get into the brain, breaking the blood brain barrier. I'm guessing that a tox screen was done on his body and I'd be curious (if I were on either legal team, that is) what his THC levels were. If someone did smoke pot but is not smoking pot daily/currently, their levels should drop fairly significantly each day. However, if it was used heavily and/or recently, that would cause significantly high numbers. And of course other things could be observed/discovered in autopsy, such as blood vessels, the throat, the lungs, etc.

If he was under the influence, it could explain why he was not registering and responding to the multiple commands from the officer to stop.

 

[black dog]

Its much harder to listen if you are stoned.





The same district attorneys office that routinely prosecutes pot offenders now turned around and claimed that his intoxication was not relevant. Hypocrites.

Please cite where it says he was stoned....

 

[hotbikermama40]

I'd like to know what the officer's training was for the instance he realizes he's dealing with someone, seated in a vehicle, carrying a firearm.

My thinking is I can't very well reach for my ID when the officer knows I have a concealed weapon and is telling (yelling at) me not to reach for it. I'm thinking that if there's any confusion, both my hands go back on the steering wheel so the officer sees I'm not a threat.

Exactly. In the video, the officer initially asks for the DL & reg. It was immediately after that, presumably while reaching for his wallet to get the ID, that he (the driver) informs he has a CCL and has a gun on him. Right then, the officer tells him not to reach for it - so who cares what "it" is? But the driver apparently doesn't stop and you hear the cop repeating multiple times to stop. Some comments on this thread have been about the cop's temperament and that could very well be true. None of us could know one way or the other, so we just have to rely on our individual feelings about it. But it seems to me that as each slow second happened in this situation, he (the cop) saw only that the man had told him he was carrying a gun and then proceeded, against multiple clear directives to stop doing so, to reach into whatever pocket he was going for. This is where, as stgislander stated, it would be nice to know more about the training, because just how long does the officer wait to see if his life is really in danger? Seems more like a massive hit of adrenaline that simply "panicky". And his behaviors afterwards led me to believe he was devastated by having to take a life.

Seriously. If this was a white guy the NRA would have paid for his legal team and he would be a martyr for the cause.

But because he was black its just one more case of a cop getting away with using poor judgement and another innocent victim being killed.

No, you slimy little skid-marked bigot...The NRA would have nothing to do with him, regardless of color, because he didn't follow the officer's directives.

 

[Wishbone]

If he was under the influence, it could explain why he was not registering and responding to the multiple commands from the officer to stop.

It's kind of what I was thinking as well. It's what would explain his hesitancy to cooperate, if he was somewhat under the influence and not understanding The situation as well as he should.

 

[black dog]

Exactly. In the video, the officer initially asks for the DL & reg. It was immediately after that, presumably while reaching for his wallet to get the ID, that he (the driver) informs he has a CCL and has a gun on him. Right then, the officer tells him not to reach for it - so who cares what "it" is? But the driver apparently doesn't stop and you hear the cop repeating multiple times to stop. Some comments on this thread have been about the cop's temperament and that could very well be true. None of us could know one way or the other, so we just have to rely on our individual feelings about it. But it seems to me that as each slow second happened in this situation, he (the cop) saw only that the man had told him he was carrying a gun and then proceeded, against multiple clear directives to stop doing so, to reach into whatever pocket he was going for. This is where, as stgislander stated, it would be nice to know more about the training, because just how long does the officer wait to see if his life is really in danger? Seems more like a massive hit of adrenaline that simply "panicky". And his behaviors afterwards led me to believe he was devastated by having to take a life.



No, you slimy little skid-marked bigot...The NRA would have nothing to do with him, regardless of color, because he didn't follow the officer's directives.

He waits until he actually see's that there is a threat or his partner let's him know there is a threat. But yet his partner didn't shoot... Hummmmmmm..
And in the land that you can carry a firearm LE generally don't Kirk out when told you have a permit / License or are carrying a firearm.
Folks are pulled over in Free States with firearms everyday and arn't shot dead.
His partner had a view from the other side of the car and he saw no threats.

And I'm glad you are not representing the NRA, if he had been a member he most certainly would have received​ legal representation.
And how do you know that didn't comply with the Officer?


And again I will say, his partner didn't understand why he shot this man.



Last of all have you ever been pulled over while carrying a firearm?
Do you have a permit to carry a firearm?

 

[hotbikermama40]

I'd like to know what the officer's training was for the instance he realizes he's dealing with someone, seated in a vehicle, carrying a firearm.

My thinking is I can't very well reach for my ID when the officer knows I have a concealed weapon and is telling (yelling at) me not to reach for it. I'm thinking that if there's any confusion, both my hands go back on the steering wheel so the officer sees I'm not a threat.

Seriously. If this was a white guy the NRA would have paid for his legal team and he would be a martyr for the cause.

But because he was black its just one more case of a cop getting away with using poor judgement and another innocent victim being killed.

He waits until he actually see's that there is a threat or his partner let's him know there is a threat. But yet his partner didn't shoot... Hummmmmmm..
And in the land that you can carry a firearm LE generally don't Kirk out when told you have a permit / License or are carrying a firearm.
Folks are pulled over in Free States with firearms everyday and arn't shot dead.
His partner had a view from the other side of the car and he saw no threats.

And I'm glad you are not representing the NRA, if he had been a member he most certainly would have received​ legal representation.
And how do you know that didn't comply with the Officer?


And again I will say, his partner didn't understand why he shot this man.



Last of all have you ever been pulled over while carrying a firearm?
Do you have a permit to carry a firearm?

He didn't "kirk out" when the guy told him he had one. He went on alert when the guy wouldn't stop reaching for whatever it was he was reaching for.
I concede to being mistaken on the part of what the NRA would do or not do, if he were a member. As for the rest of it, after watching the video it is my opinion that the cop was not off the rails. And based on what I could hear in the video, everything was going fine until he told the guy to stop and his repeated commands to do so were not heeded. That suggests that his directive was not being complied with. Unless I missed something in that video, his partner was no where near the car during this whole thing.

And last of all, I was licensed to carry in my home state. No, I never got pulled over while carrying. If I did, I would have told the officer I had a gun and waited for whatever the next instruction was. Have you ever been sworn in as an officer of the law and had to make a split second decision?

 

[black dog]

He didn't "kirk out" when the guy told him he had one. He went on alert when the guy wouldn't stop reaching for whatever it was he was reaching for.
I concede to being mistaken on the part of what the NRA would do or not do, if he were a member. As for the rest of it, after watching the video it is my opinion that the cop was not off the rails. And based on what I could hear in the video, everything was going fine until he told the guy to stop and his repeated commands to do so were not heeded. That suggests that his directive was not being complied with. Unless I missed something in that video, his partner was no where near the car during this whole thing.

And last of all, I was licensed to carry in my home state. No, I never got pulled over while carrying. If I did, I would have told the officer I had a gun and waited for whatever the next instruction was. Have you ever been sworn in as an officer of the law and had to make a split second decision?

Yes I have been, as a young man after 6 years in the Marines and then 5 years working in the private security industry ( 3 in Africa and 2 in South America ) I went to work for Baltimore City PD.. I worked there for 2 years, it wasn't enough money....
So yes I have made more than one split second decision..
And I've carried a firearm since 81 or 82.. I have been pulled over a few times in my 42+ years of driving with a firearm on my person, a backseat full of Automatic weapons and the ever present trunk gun. Some stops excellent and others not so much, sometimes I have informed the officer if required by law and sometimes not when the law allows.
And I'm not dead...
And he absolutely kirked out when he was informed about a firearm.
It went from a mild pullover to a screaming panicking cop.. for nothing more than citizen with a permit and a firearm. The same thing he had on his Sam Browne belt.

I find it interesting that a officer can get upset that you are legally carrying a firearm but yet he carry's one everyday and it doesn't bother anyone...

And he was unnecessarily screaming at a man that had just told him he was carrying a firearm.. also know this,
In Minnesota, permit holders are NOT REQUIRED to tell law enforcement that they are carrying a firearm. He was being very cooperative by telling the officer he had a firearm.

 

[hotbikermama40]

Yes I have been, as a young man after 6 years in the Marines and then 5 years working in the private security industry ( 3 in Africa and 2 in South America ) I went to work for Baltimore City PD.. I worked there for 2 years, it wasn't enough money....
So yes I have made more than one split second decision..
And I've carried a firearm since 81 or 82.. I have been pulled over a few times in my 42+ years of driving with a firearm on my person, a backseat full of Automatic weapons and the ever present trunk gun. Some stops excellent and others not so much, sometimes I have informed the officer if required by law and sometimes not when the law allows.
And he absolutely kirked out when he was informed about a firearm.
It went from a mild pullover to a screaming panicking cop.. for nothing more than citizen with a permit and a firearm. The same thing he had on his Sam Browne belt.

I find it interesting that a officer can get upset that you are legally carrying a firearm but yet he carry's one everyday and it doesn't bother anyone...

Well without a doubt, thank you for your service, in the USM and in the civilian sector of LE. And I'm glad that you're here to talk about it, even if we have different opinions about the situation - lol!
Respectfully, I maintain my opinions about what I saw/heard and perceived overall after watching the video. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it may very well be that he was not mentally fit enough to handle himself and the situation. But what I don't see is a cop who lost it when the guy said he had a gun on him and a license. I also admit that I only watched the video once...and I'm not watching it again. It brought me to tears the first time and that was plenty.

 

[black dog]

You're welcome.... And that's fair...

I'm a ogre, Thank you for your service.