BLM - "Don't pull it out!" gets somehow interpreted as "you said to get his ID out."

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Wishbone

New Member
I've got the perfect solution for this ####!

All the arm-chair lawyers who are sure the cops are all racist #######s out to kill every black man they can stop on the side of the road, can belly up to the bar and put their ass at the drivers window on EVERY ####ing traffic stop and repeat the instructions they are given. They can be all lackadaisical, apologetic and culturally sensitive and see how a thousand traffic stops go.

Then, if anyone gets shot it's gonna be someone unimportant, and the officer can respond in force where there is no doubt as to whether things went south.
 
black dog

black dog

Free America
Wishbone said:
I watched the video twice. His partner was on the opposite side, to the rear of the vehichle and I wouldn't be too certain of what he could and could not see.

Asking now: Would you as a LEO just take it laissez faire when the wallet and firearm are within a couple inches and you couldn't clearly see both or would you have changed the procedure?
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First, I find it hard to believe that the department in question procedure during a traffic stop when being told in a normal manner that I have a firearm is to start screaming at the person and lose control of the stop..

Having a valid permit / license instantly should tell a LEO that this person is not a convicted felon nor has been convicted of any misdemeanor that would take away their right to own a firearm.

I would have called the tag in before I pulled him over, and I then would have known if the owner of the car had a permit / license to carry a firearm.

Besides that, if I didn't know the had a permit and or firearm with him, when I was told I would have asked when it was located at and with seeing his permit and or told over the radio he had a valid permit / license I would have cared less about the firearm.
That's how it's normally handled in states where gun permits / licenses are incountered with LE everyday..
 
R

Restitution

New Member
Chris0nllyn said:
Claiming the guy "should have just listened" while all that happened in a relatively short amount of time is disingenuous...
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Disingenuous???

Please let us know how many seconds, minutes, hours, etc. should be allowed to pass before someone who is pulled over for a traffic violation needs to obey the orders of the law enforcement officer. :tap:

I know that if LEO tells me to not reach for something in my car that I will IMMEDIATELY put my hands on the wheel and await instructions. That is common sense for someone who has been driving for a while AND has nothing effecting their mental state (THC???)
 
W

Wishbone

New Member
black dog said:
First, I find it hard to believe that the department in question procedure during a traffic stop when being told in a normal manner that I have a firearm is to start screaming at the person and lose control of the stop.. -- Which is not what happened. From Your Post:

PC Sir, I have to teil you I do have a...
JY Okay.
PC ...firearm on me.
JY Okay.
PC I (inaudible)
JY Don't reach for it then.
PC I'm, 1,1 was reaching for...
JY Don't pull it out.
Click to expand...

Like I said before, this doesn't mean the cop bears no responsibility, just that there WERE issues on both sides contributing to this tragedy.
 
black dog

black dog

Free America
officeguy said:
Yanez did not know that Castille had a permit to carry when he told him that he had a firearm. I don't believe MN automatically flags license plates with CCW status the way othe states apparently do.

As to your question, the answer is probably close to Zero.

I inform the officer of my permit, pretty much the first thing I do. I also have license, CHP, insurance and registration in hand when he walks up to the window. Just requires some thinking ahead.
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And Minnesota is a do not have to inform State, so just maybe if the driver had kept his mouth shut, he would have saved his own life.
Sometimes what some think is the right thing to do... Is not the right thing to do.

Indiana residents are not required to inform LE, nor are we required to carry our permit with us while carrying. If LE calls in your name, DL number they are informed then of a permit to carry.
Very seldom do you hear about a firearm in a car being a problem with LE in most of the country.
You all have to remember that the major portion of the country doesn't have the scrutiny and rules that States like MD,DC,NJ, NY and California have with firearm ownership.
 
black dog

black dog

Free America
Wishbone said:
Like I said before, this doesn't mean the cop bears no responsibility, just that there WERE issues on both sides contributing to this tragedy.
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Let's remember that the driver and the passenger were telling the now screaming Officer that he wasn't going for a gun.
He was getting his license out like the officer had already told him to do.

JY You have your license and insurance?
(pause/background noise)
PC Sir, I have to teil you I do have a...
JY Okay.
PC ...firearm on me.
JY Okay.JY You have your license and insurance?
(pause/background noise)
PCJY You have your license and insurance?
(pause/background noise)
PC Sir, I have to teil you I do have a...
JY Okay.
PC ...firearm on me.
JY Okay.
PC I (inaudible)
JY Don't reach for it then.
PC I'm, 1,1 was reaching for...
JY Don't pull it out.
PC I'm not pulling it out.
DR He's not...
JY Don't puii it out.
(gunshots)
DR You just killed my boyfriend
PC I wasn't reaching ...
DR He wasn't reaching. ..
JY Don't pull it out!
DR He wasn't. | ^EXHI Sir, I have to teil you I do have a...
JY Okay.
PC ...firearm on me.
JY Okay.
PC I (inaudible)
JY Don't reach for it then.
PC I'm, 1,1 was reaching for...
JY Don't pull it out.
PC I'm not pulling it out.
DR He's not...
JY Don't puii it out.
(gunshots)
DR You just killed my boyfriend
PC I wasn't reaching ...
DR He wasn't reaching. ..
JY Don't pull it out!
DR He wasn't. | ^EXHI
PC I (inaudible)
JY Don't reach for it then.
PC I'm, 1,1 was reaching for...
JY Don't pull it out.
PC I'm not pulling it out.
DR He's not...
JY Don't puii it out.
(gunshots)
DR You just killed my boyfriend
PC I wasn't reaching ...
DR He wasn't reaching. ..
JY Don't pull it out!
DR He wasn't. | ^EXHI

The officer was informed that he had a firearm, and the officer replyed OK, the officer moved right past the fact he had a firearm and then told him to get his license and insurance information..
The officer was told more than a few times he was not getting the firearm.
But the officer had lost his cool and any since of reasoning shortly thereafter.
 
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W

Wishbone

New Member
black dog said:
Let's remember that the driver and the passenger were telling the now screaming Officer that he wasn't going for a gun.
He was getting his license out like the officer had already told him to do.
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OK... The Police can't see the Halo hovering over their heads. So expecting them to take their word for a questionable motion isn't reasonable.

When the cop said "Don't reach for it then" followed by "Don't Pull it out" tells me whatever Mr Castille thought he was doing should have come to a stop.

The cop can't read his mind to know he's just impaired or whatever... The officers sentences tell me that he was under the impression, REGARDLESS of what Mr Castille thinks he's doing, that the suspect is pulling out the firearm.

Now if you are saying Police should be required to treat everybody as ZERO potential for harm, you're gonna get a lot of vacancies in the ranks.
 
Chris0nllyn

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Wishbone said:
OK... The Police can't see the Halo hovering over their heads. So expecting them to take their word for a questionable motion isn't reasonable.

When the cop said "Don't reach for it then" followed by "Don't Pull it out" tells me whatever Mr Castille thought he was doing should have come to a stop.

The cop can't read his mind to know he's just impaired or whatever... The officers sentences tell me that he was under the impression, REGARDLESS of what Mr Castille thinks he's doing, that the suspect is pulling out the firearm.

Now if you are saying Police should be required to treat everybody as ZERO potential for harm, you're gonna get a lot of vacancies in the ranks.
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Not sure about you, but I'd actual prefer police don't treat every citizen as if they are criminals.
 
W

Wishbone

New Member
Chris0nllyn said:
Not sure about you, but I'd actual prefer police don't treat every citizen as if they are criminals.
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And at the beginning of that stop it was calm voice, cool demeanor and polite.

Treating it like a normal traffic stop. ( You cant see that? )

It went south WHEN the officer heard the remainder of Mr Castiles statement that he had a firearm and was reaching for Whatever simultaneously.

Again, when the cop said "DON'T REACH FOR IT" EVERYTHING SHOULD HAVE STOPPED.

You want to put everything on the cop, like he was out to get himself a trophy ###### kill!

That isn't what happened.
 
R

Restitution

New Member
Wishbone said:
And at the beginning of that stop it was calm voice, cool demeanor and polite.

Treating it like a normal traffic stop. ( You cant see that? )

It went south WHEN the officer heard the remainder of Mr Castiles statement that he had a firearm and was reaching for Whatever simultaneously.

Again, when the cop said "DON'T REACH FOR IT" EVERYTHING SHOULD HAVE STOPPED.

You want to put everything on the cop, like he was out to get himself a trophy ###### kill!

That isn't what happened.
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Exactly!!!

I'm still waiting for Chris to answer my question about how long should the cop have given the suspect :tap:
 
R

Restitution

New Member
Chris0nllyn said:
To do what? Get his wallet?
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No. To follow the order/instructions he gave him..... twice in fact..... that is clearly seen and heard on the video.

You know... the part where he says "Don't pull it out!"

Should he have waited until the suspect pulled out his firearm and pointed it at him?

When should he have acted exactly? I'll wait... :tap:
 
W

Wishbone

New Member
Chris0nllyn said:
To do what? Get his wallet?

I guess I'm in a minority that believes a cop shouldn't shoot someone unless they are in imminent danger.
Click to expand...

PC Sir, I have to teil you I do have a...
JY Okay.
PC ...firearm on me.
JY Okay.
PC I (inaudible)
JY Don't reach for it then.
PC I'm, 1,1 was reaching for...
JY Don't pull it out.
 
Chris0nllyn

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Restitution said:
No. To follow the order/instructions he gave him..... twice in fact..... that is clearly seen and heard on the video.

You know... the part where he says "Don't pull it out!"

Should he have waited until the suspect pulled out his firearm and pointed it at him?

When should he have acted exactly? I'll wait... :tap:
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Do we have body cam footage?

Do we any evidence that the guy didn't stop when asked?

The officer's reaction DIRECTLY afterward is indicative of someone who knows they ####ed up.
 
R

Restitution

New Member
Chris0nllyn said:
The officer's reaction DIRECTLY afterward is indicative of someone who knows they ####ed up.
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That is NOT what I saw. It looked like someone who had gallons of adrenaline running through their bodies and had just killed a suspect that did not comply with a simple order. It looked like someone who was fearful of their life and had to make a horrible decision. Them or me.

If the kid had just put his hands on the wheel, the cop could have had him exit the vehicle while his partner located and secured the firearm. He would have been issued his ticket, given back his firearm, and been sent on his way. PERIOD!
 
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