Boy Scouts and Gay Rights Again.........

[Geek]

OUCH! Why blame the Bible for people's screw ups? That's like saying knives are at fault for all the stabbings in the world. It's people dear, and they will ALWAYS let you down. I have to agree with you, they do find "out of context quotes"...and use Jesus name to hurt others.

I left for the same reason Geek but, again, don't blame the Bible for it. And, Matthew 7 v 13 says that it is a narrow road and only a few find it so, as long as you don't push Jesus out of the picture, you'll be there.

Now you're blaming me? Go back where? It sounds like you were really disgusted with the catholic church as I was, but I didn't come off with this hatred for them. Wha's up wit that, lady? I just quote the words and you hate me for it? When a doctor quotes his medical books, do people hate him for it? (depends on the diagnosis I guess). Well, Jesus predicted that too in (John 15 v 18-21). Contrary to what you think, I don't hate anyone. If I hate anything it's not the people, it's what they do.

Answer me why my statement was dangerous?

 

[bcp]

I think he must take more issue with the way you said it vs what you said.

at least I think.

as far as the Bible and homosexuality goes,
the old testament speaks against it, it is mentioned in the mosaic laws as a violation of Gods laws.
however, as with stoning the sinner, or cutting off their hands or plucking out their eyes as so perfectly described in the old testament, The way things are dealt with changed in the new.

When Jesus Christ died on the cross he took not only the sins from man, but also the responsibility of punishment.
no longer did man have to stone the homosexual or any thing else.
people are expected to point out that homosexuality is a sin and try to show the homosexual the right path to take.
as far has hating the homosexual goes, I dont think that is a requirement in the Bible. One should "love" the sinner but hate the sin. this tells me that although the homosexual as a being of God is to be respected, the homosexual actions should not be tolerated by me.
By not tolerated I mean to say that I am not to endorse, or accept as ok, or knowingly embrace homosexuality.

The boyscouts have it right if what they want is a true Christian based organization. What I wonder is, If someone came to them and said they where homosexual, or had dabbled in the gay arts, but are now seeking a life with christ,, would the boyscouts still turn them away? if so, I would take that as a violation of Gods will and Gods law as far as treatment of homosexuals go.

but thats just my take.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Answer me why my statement was dangerous?

Because the Bible contains many of God's own words. Some of it is historical facts and some of it is things yet to come, but none of it is "a lot of crap". Much of those words are what God is going to judge ALL of us with. Now whether you believe that or not doesn't change what it is. Can you specify what "crap" you found in it? Just curious

 

[ItalianScallion]

I think he must take more issue with the way you said it vs what you said.
at least I think.
as far as the Bible and homosexuality goes,
the old testament speaks against it, it is mentioned in the mosaic laws as a violation of Gods laws.
however, as with stoning the sinner, or cutting off their hands or plucking out their eyes as so perfectly described in the old testament, The way things are dealt with changed in the new.

When Jesus Christ died on the cross he took not only the sins from man, but also the responsibility of punishment.
no longer did man have to stone the homosexual or any thing else.
people are expected to point out that homosexuality is a sin and try to show the homosexual the right path to take.
as far has hating the homosexual goes, I dont think that is a requirement in the Bible. One should "love" the sinner but hate the sin. this tells me that although the homosexual as a being of God is to be respected, the homosexual actions should not be tolerated by me.
By not tolerated I mean to say that I am not to endorse, or accept as ok, or knowingly embrace homosexuality.

I agree. In the OT, God was harsh and there were no two ways about it. He had to be, in order for evil to be purged from society and for people to realize and accept that He is God and His way was the "highway". We see today what happens when law enforcement and punishment becomes relaxed. Crime & evil increases. God was harsh because He knew this and the liberals didn't. (They still don't know today)

The boyscouts have it right if what they want is a true Christian based organization. What I wonder is, If someone came to them and said they where homosexual, or had dabbled in the gay arts, but are now seeking a life with christ,, would the boyscouts still turn them away? if so, I would take that as a violation of Gods will and Gods law as far as treatment of homosexuals go. but thats just my take.

Tough call bcp. They should take them in to help them with their recovery BUT, they still need to be concerned for the safety of the kids.

 

[Geek]

I think he must take more issue with the way you said it vs what you said.

at least I think.

as far as the Bible and homosexuality goes,
the old testament speaks against it, it is mentioned in the mosaic laws as a violation of Gods laws.
however, as with stoning the sinner, or cutting off their hands or plucking out their eyes as so perfectly described in the old testament, The way things are dealt with changed in the new.

When Jesus Christ died on the cross he took not only the sins from man, but also the responsibility of punishment.
no longer did man have to stone the homosexual or any thing else.
people are expected to point out that homosexuality is a sin and try to show the homosexual the right path to take.
as far has hating the homosexual goes, I dont think that is a requirement in the Bible. One should "love" the sinner but hate the sin. this tells me that although the homosexual as a being of God is to be respected, the homosexual actions should not be tolerated by me.
By not tolerated I mean to say that I am not to endorse, or accept as ok, or knowingly embrace homosexuality.

The boyscouts have it right if what they want is a true Christian based organization. What I wonder is, If someone came to them and said they where homosexual, or had dabbled in the gay arts, but are now seeking a life with christ,, would the boyscouts still turn them away? if so, I would take that as a violation of Gods will and Gods law as far as treatment of homosexuals go.

but thats just my take.

What about the other sins you outlined from the O.T. i.e. mixing fabric, not touching a woman during her period and the like? Do we still have to seek out those types as sinners as well?

Because the Bible contains many of God's own words. Some of it is historical facts and some of it is things yet to come, but none of it is "a lot of crap". Much of those words are what God is going to judge ALL of us with. Now whether you believe that or not doesn't change what it is. Can you specify what "crap" you found in it? Just curious

The eating of fat is prohibited forever. (Lev 3:17)
You cannot round the corners of your beard or the hair on your temples. (Lev 19:27)
Witches should be killed. (Ex 22:18)
The congregation was to be a bastard free zone. The Bible was so dead set against bastards that their children, even to the tenth generation, could not enter the assembly of the Lord. (Duet 23:2) This is in keeping with God's principle of punishing children for the wrongdoings of their parents.
Handicapped people could not approach God. Their presence would profane his sanctuary. (Lev 21:16-23) This scripture single-handedly offends almost every category of handicapped persons you can name. The blind, lame, injured, hunchbacks and dwarfs are specifically named. If anyone is left out, the catchall phrase "anyone with a blemish" is thrown in to cover them. I guess in Israel, the handicapped parking stalls were at the far end of the parking lot.
Entrance into the assembly of the Lord was granted only to those with complete testicles. (Duet 23:1) Now, I will admit that keeping one's testicles in tact is a pursuit worthy of some attention, but I have to ask: What went on in the "assembly of the Lord" that required a complete and full set of testicles? And, since testicles are usually not on display, was there someone at the gate assigned to check?
Anyone working on the Sabbath is to be killed. (Ex 35:2) This law was to protect the sanctity of Sunday afternoon football. Unfortunately, any player that touched the ball would have to be killed after the game, because he had touched a dead pig. (Lev 11:7,8) That would certainly make it easier to play defense.
Menstruating women and everything they touch are unclean. The only cure for this uncleanness was for the priest to kill a couple of pigeons. (Lev 15:19-30) What could be more logical?
If a couple has sex during the woman's period, the two are to be cut off from their people. (Lev 20:18) Once again, how would anyone know that this had happened? The couple is obviously not going to tell. Maybe the genital inspector from the temple made house calls.
Women were officially second class citizens. They were considered possessions that were owned, (Prov 12:4) and were officially subordinate (1 Cor 14:33,34).
Homosexual men were to be executed. (Lev 20:13) No mention is made of homosexual women.
If a woman grabs a man's privates during a fight, her hand is to be cut off. (Duet 25:11,12) Now, is it really necessary to have this law on the books? You get the impression that the person who was writing the laws had recently experienced this and was still a little pissed off.
False prophets are to be killed by their own parents. (Zech 13:3)
Stubborn children were to be stoned, and the stoning was to be instigated by their parents. (Duet 21:18-21)


quoted from Bible Justice

 

[bcp]

I disagree. Our place in world is to be good people and share positive energy with others. I don't believe you a have to be a member of a certain group that follows a book of guidelines. Be a good person. Challange yourself everyday to add love and worth to the world. God won't care what your religon is if your heart is pure. That's what I am taking out of 12 years of Catholic School.

What about the gay lifestyle do you detest?

I personally believe that the way to salvation is through Jesus Christ.
thats what Im going for.
you do as you wish. regardless, there is no reason for anyone to not get along based on their belief concerning the method to get to heaven.
I would like to think you are right, however, the teaching from my Bible tell me differently.

 

[Geek]

I personally believe that the way to salvation is through Jesus Christ.
thats what Im going for.
you do as you wish. regardless, there is no reason for anyone to not get along based on their belief concerning the method to get to heaven.
I would like to think you are right, however, the teaching from my Bible tell me differently.

Why would God create other cultures? He created them just to ban them from heaven? What about the people in my life that are Jewish? Are they going to Hell? They live a good life and are not interested in Jesus.

I heard a catholic mother tell the mother of a Jewish boy "too bad he is going to hell, he wasn't Catholic" This statement was made at the little boy's funeral. He was four years old when he died of cancer. #### that.

 

[bcp]

What about the other sins you outlined from the O.T. i.e. mixing fabric, not touching a woman during her period and the like? Do we still have to seek out those types as sinners as well?





The eating of fat is prohibited forever. (Lev 3:17)
You cannot round the corners of your beard or the hair on your temples. (Lev 19:27)
Witches should be killed. (Ex 22:18)
The congregation was to be a bastard free zone. The Bible was so dead set against bastards that their children, even to the tenth generation, could not enter the assembly of the Lord. (Duet 23:2) This is in keeping with God's principle of punishing children for the wrongdoings of their parents.
Handicapped people could not approach God. Their presence would profane his sanctuary. (Lev 21:16-23) This scripture single-handedly offends almost every category of handicapped persons you can name. The blind, lame, injured, hunchbacks and dwarfs are specifically named. If anyone is left out, the catchall phrase "anyone with a blemish" is thrown in to cover them. I guess in Israel, the handicapped parking stalls were at the far end of the parking lot.
Entrance into the assembly of the Lord was granted only to those with complete testicles. (Duet 23:1) Now, I will admit that keeping one's testicles in tact is a pursuit worthy of some attention, but I have to ask: What went on in the "assembly of the Lord" that required a complete and full set of testicles? And, since testicles are usually not on display, was there someone at the gate assigned to check?
Anyone working on the Sabbath is to be killed. (Ex 35:2) This law was to protect the sanctity of Sunday afternoon football. Unfortunately, any player that touched the ball would have to be killed after the game, because he had touched a dead pig. (Lev 11:7,8) That would certainly make it easier to play defense.
Menstruating women and everything they touch are unclean. The only cure for this uncleanness was for the priest to kill a couple of pigeons. (Lev 15:19-30) What could be more logical?
If a couple has sex during the woman's period, the two are to be cut off from their people. (Lev 20:18) Once again, how would anyone know that this had happened? The couple is obviously not going to tell. Maybe the genital inspector from the temple made house calls.
Women were officially second class citizens. They were considered possessions that were owned, (Prov 12:4) and were officially subordinate (1 Cor 14:33,34).
Homosexual men were to be executed. (Lev 20:13) No mention is made of homosexual women.
If a woman grabs a man's privates during a fight, her hand is to be cut off. (Duet 25:11,12) Now, is it really necessary to have this law on the books? You get the impression that the person who was writing the laws had recently experienced this and was still a little pissed off.
False prophets are to be killed by their own parents. (Zech 13:3)
Stubborn children were to be stoned, and the stoning was to be instigated by their parents. (Duet 21:18-21)


quoted from Bible Justice

did you read what I posted or just stop at the one point?

again, we do not have to worry about any of that now, Jesus carried the responsibility of that with him.

perhaps you are mistaking me for Jewish?

however since we are playing the all or none game.

homosexuality is normal because it is found in the rest of the animal kingdom.

questions for you now.

will you let your neighbor come in and feast on your new born child?
is it ok that the man across the street kills your husband to get the bag of food from him?
would you get upset if I stuck my ass in your face to say hello?
If you go out for the day, can I move in to your house and then kill you when you try to get back in?

all of the above are found natural in the animal kingdom, and at a higher rate than homosexuality. therefore, we must embrace those that are compelled to act in this manner.

 

[Geek]

did you read what I posted or just stop at the one point?

again, we do not have to worry about any of that now, Jesus carried the responsibility of that with him.

perhaps you are mistaking me for Jewish?

however since we are playing the all or none game.

homosexuality is normal because it is found in the rest of the animal kingdom.

questions for you now.

will you let your neighbor come in and feast on your new born child?
is it ok that the man across the street kills your husband to get the bag of food from him?
would you get upset if I stuck my ass in your face to say hello?
If you go out for the day, can I move in to your house and then kill you when you try to get back in?

all of the above are found natural in the animal kingdom, and at a higher rate than homosexuality. therefore, we must embrace those that are compelled to act in this manner.

DO you know any gay people at all?


And Jesus carried the responsibility, but yet in your post you mention that we have to hate the sin but love the sinner. If Homosexuality is an old testement sin, then so is all the other crap I listed. And the crap is also deserving of love/hate relationship in this, the modern age. But people don't get all torn up about eating fat. They don't mention that they hate fat eaters. They drag out that stupid homosexuality quote to give some sort of weak base to stand on while they spew hatred.

 

[bcp]

DO you know any gay people at all?


And Jesus carried the responsibility, but yet in your post you mention that we have to hate the sin but love the sinner. If Homosexuality is an old testement sin, then so is all the other crap I listed. And the crap is also deserving of love/hate relationship in this, the modern age. But people don't get all torn up about eating fat. They don't mention that they hate fat eaters. They drag out that stupid homosexuality quote to give some sort of weak base to stand on while they spew hatred.

just for the record
I dont base my dislike for homosexuals on the bible.

I for some reason have an aversion to them, I don't know why. Its natural.
I mean, they can be gay and act normal and I have no problem, but its the little fem ones that actually make my stomach turn.

and as far as fat goes, yes, people are up in arms over it, have you not noticed the push to trim away all fat from meat?
I do think however now that you do mention it many of those rules, or laws came about because of health issues, maybe there was a big parasite issue with fat? maybe trichinosis is why pork was considered unclean?

but, you didnt really answer my questions about nature and what you are willing to accept as normal.

can the fat lady next door feast on your newborn?
will you be a good neighbor and point out that the 15 year old would make a better meal?
In the name of acceptance, will you offer her your last bottle of BBQ sauce to go with her meal.

 

[bcp]

DO you know any gay people at all?

forget to mention this.
no, I do not as far as I know, however, it would not surprise me to find out that one person I know is.

 

[Geek]

forget to mention this.
no, I do not as far as I know, however, it would not surprise me to find out that one person I know is.

People are a lot of things we don't know about. Not every gay person wears purple lame and snaps in letters.

 

[ItalianScallion]

JUST about being good to others???? That is what this life is about. If your religon is about being one of the very few to get a "key" into heaven, then have at it.

Your beef is with God and you can't change His requirements. And no, life isn't only about being good to others. It should be, but what about people who are good to others and yet don't believe in the true God. They are warned of in the Bible in a number of places. Paul said: "beware of people preaching a different Jesus other than the true one" (2 Corinthians 11 v 3, 4). He didn't say: don't worry about a different Jesus, just be good to everyone. Sorry Geek. God Himself said this in the OT & NT and if someone doesn't like it, it's not likely to change God's mind.
As for your friend saying that someone won't get to heaven because they're not catholic; I would advise them that the same fate might await them, because that is NO WHERE in the Bible.
And, sad to say, a person can be Jewish and not make it to heaven but I can't speak for that 4 year old child. If they believe in and follow the teachings of Jesus (as Messianic Jews do) they'll get to heaven. I'm sorry if you don't like or accept that but it isn't my rule, it's God's.

 

[ItalianScallion]

What about the other sins you outlined from the O.T. i.e. mixing fabric, not touching a woman during her period and the like? Do we still have to seek out those types as sinners as well?
The eating of fat is prohibited forever. (Lev 3:17)
You cannot round the corners of your beard or the hair on your temples. (Lev 19:27)
Witches should be killed. (Ex 22:18)
The congregation was to be a bastard free zone. The Bible was so dead set against bastards that their children, even to the tenth generation, could not enter the assembly of the Lord. (Duet 23:2) This is in keeping with God's principle of punishing children for the wrongdoings of their parents.
Handicapped people could not approach God. Their presence would profane his sanctuary. (Lev 21:16-23) This scripture single-handedly offends almost every category of handicapped persons you can name. The blind, lame, injured, hunchbacks and dwarfs are specifically named. If anyone is left out, the catchall phrase "anyone with a blemish" is thrown in to cover them. I guess in Israel, the handicapped parking stalls were at the far end of the parking lot.
Entrance into the assembly of the Lord was granted only to those with complete testicles. (Duet 23:1) Now, I will admit that keeping one's testicles in tact is a pursuit worthy of some attention, but I have to ask: What went on in the "assembly of the Lord" that required a complete and full set of testicles? And, since testicles are usually not on display, was there someone at the gate assigned to check?
Anyone working on the Sabbath is to be killed. (Ex 35:2) This law was to protect the sanctity of Sunday afternoon football. Unfortunately, any player that touched the ball would have to be killed after the game, because he had touched a dead pig. (Lev 11:7,8) That would certainly make it easier to play defense.
Menstruating women and everything they touch are unclean. The only cure for this uncleanness was for the priest to kill a couple of pigeons. (Lev 15:19-30) What could be more logical?
If a couple has sex during the woman's period, the two are to be cut off from their people. (Lev 20:18) Once again, how would anyone know that this had happened? The couple is obviously not going to tell. Maybe the genital inspector from the temple made house calls.
Women were officially second class citizens. They were considered possessions that were owned, (Prov 12:4) and were officially subordinate (1 Cor 14:33,34).
Homosexual men were to be executed. (Lev 20:13) No mention is made of homosexual women.
If a woman grabs a man's privates during a fight, her hand is to be cut off. (Duet 25:11,12) Now, is it really necessary to have this law on the books? You get the impression that the person who was writing the laws had recently experienced this and was still a little pissed off.
False prophets are to be killed by their own parents. (Zech 13:3)
Stubborn children were to be stoned, and the stoning was to be instigated by their parents. (Duet 21:18-21)

This could take a week to answer but I'll take a few for you. As I said earlier to "bcp", a lot of what God did in the OT days was to show the purity of God and to purge evil from society. You can't compare homosexuality to eating fat. Cities weren't destroyed for eating fat.
Bastard children were only punished for the sins of their parents if they repeated the same sins. Read Ezekiel 18. The problem was that they DID in many cases so they were punished in future generations. You must take the Bible in it's entire context Geek. although it says one thing, you can't always let a verse stand alone or you will misunderstand the meaning.
Bastard kids & eunuchs were NOT allowed in the "Assembly of the Lord" that's true, but then neither were a lot of other people. Only a "high priest" was allowed in the Holy of Holies and no one else. Why? Because of the holiness of being in God's presence back then. This didn't mean that God hated them IN ANY WAY. It was a show of reverence for Him. He loved these people and never stopped them from believing in Him, but they were not to come into the "Holy Places". God even told Moses to take off his shows before coming onto the "Holy Ground" and if any animal touched the mountain, they would die. God was very strict with His laws in the OT.
Yes the Sabbath was to be kept holy, not like it is defiled today. Why? God saw how mankind would use the Sabbath (now Sunday) to become greedy and disregard God, so He made it a serious offense.
Women on their period were losing blood and blood was VERY sacred back then. It was a symbol of the blood of Christ that would be shed later and is very precious in God's eyes. How many men today love to have sex with a woman on her period? (How many can handle the emotions that come from it?) No offense ladies. God bless you for what you go through each month.
There probably weren't any lesbians back then because of the way women were watched & limited in what they could do, so there was nothing to write about.
About the "private parts": ya know, an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth and hand for a doo dad... Don't know about this one. Maybe because she wasn't married to him and they weren't hers to touch.
False prophets were very dangerous and would lead people away from God. That's why we say today to watch out for these false teachers. Remember, when you die, it's over. You can't change your eternal home once you cross over, so a false teacher is an eternal killer in a sense.
Finally, the stoning of a "son" by the parents. You need to read this correctly and carefully. He is not a 9 year old child, he is an adult. The verse says: "he was stubborn, rebellious, won't obey, is profligate (reckless) and a drunkard". Hardly sounds like a child. The parents had to, again, purge evil from their towns even if it meant their own kids. And the men of the town were to stone him so that others would see the consequences of acting like he did.
Geek, one thing I know is that if God says something that seems harsh to you, always continue reading and you'll see that He'll say that everyone is precious to Him an that He gets no pleasure in the death of anyone. (Ezekiel 18 v 23, 32). In the flood He was sad that He had to destroy His people but they were evil! If God only loves everybody and renders NO justice, then He would be evil too. So you see (I hope) that when you read the entire Bible, you'll get the answers. It might look like God is hateful but, when He creates people and they turn bad, then He provides a way to Heaven (by dying in their place) for those bad people, how can you look at it as God being hateful? There is always a punishment for sin, either now or later or both. I'm going to bed; my fingers and eyes are worn out. Love to everyone, especially Geek, whom I think is WELL worth keeping me up late in the hopes that she'll see what is really happening in the Bible.

 

[RadioPatrol]

I think he must take more issue with the way you said it vs what you said.

at least I think.

as far as the Bible and homosexuality goes,
the old testament speaks against it, it is mentioned in the mosaic laws as a violation of Gods laws.
however, as with stoning the sinner, or cutting off their hands or plucking out their eyes as so perfectly described in the old testament, The way things are dealt with changed in the new.

When Jesus Christ died on the cross he took not only the sins from man, but also the responsibility of punishment.
no longer did man have to stone the homosexual or any thing else.
people are expected to point out that homosexuality is a sin and try to show the homosexual the right path to take.
as far has hating the homosexual goes, I dont think that is a requirement in the Bible. One should "love" the sinner but hate the sin. this tells me that although the homosexual as a being of God is to be respected, the homosexual actions should not be tolerated by me.
By not tolerated I mean to say that I am not to endorse, or accept as ok, or knowingly embrace homosexuality.

The boyscouts have it right if what they want is a true Christian based organization. What I wonder is, If someone came to them and said they where homosexual, or had dabbled in the gay arts, but are now seeking a life with christ,, would the boyscouts still turn them away? if so, I would take that as a violation of Gods will and Gods law as far as treatment of homosexuals go.

but thats just my take.

 

[toppick08]

To the red dog who wants a hard hittin' aids convict from L.A. to hurt me; all I can say is that it would take both of ya'll to stop me. Good day.

Thanks to all the "nameless" tough people talking behind "their" keyboards who showered me in glorious red.

 

[bcp]

Thanks to all the "nameless" tough people talking behind "their" keyboards who showered me in glorious red.

PSSST,,

reds a gay color.

 

[toppick08]

PSSST,,

reds a gay color.

 

[migtig]

I just want to make a statement, and then I'll leave you all to your religious bickering...a homosexual is not a pedophile. They are two totally seperate sexual "urges" (for lack of a better word on my behalf).

A homosexual is attracted to an adult of the same sex.

A pedophile is atracted to a child, sometimes regardless of gender.

I can understand the concern of any organization that works with children in allowing pedophiles around. However, homosexuality is not a "safety issue" for children. Homosexuals are NOT child predators any more than Heterosexuals.

Profile Of A Pedophile

 

[toppick08]

I just want to make a statement, and then I'll leave you all to your religious bickering...a homosexual is not a pedophile. They are two totally seperate sexual "urges" (for lack of a better word on my behalf).

A homosexual is attracted to an adult of the same sex.

A pedophile is atracted to a child, sometimes regardless of gender.

I can understand the concern of any organization that works with children in allowing pedophiles around. However, homosexuality is not a "safety issue" for children. Homosexuals are NOT child predators any more than Heterosexuals.

Profile Of A Pedophile

How 'bout them Catholic priests then ?