Bumper sticker rant
- Thread starter Tonio
- Start date
label on it.
tirdun
staring into the abyss
Bustem' Down said:
For anyone who is curious:
The flag currently associated with the CSA is the Confederate Navy Jack, which is a rectangular version of the square Confederate Battle Flag. Given the modern fondness for rectangular flags, it isn't unexpected that the Navy Jack is the recognized banner.
The battle flag is also a component of a number of major army flags, including the legendary Army of Northern Virginia under General Lee. Also the last 2 of the 3 official CSA flags have incorporated the battle flag. The second CSA flag is a white banner with the battle flag in the upper left (where the USA flag has the blue field with stars), the last flag added a thick red vertical stripe to the right side. The first CSA flag is similar to the USA flag, and was apparently changed for that reason.
Essentially, the current flag is a central component of the most important flags of the CSA: the national flag, the naval flag and the flag of the most important army of the war. It was not, as generally shown, the national flag of the CSA, but it is an accurate banner of the South of the Civil War.
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tirdun said:
I made no such claim. I posted the Declaration after another poster indicated that was the “flag of traitors and insurgency.” I agree, I was just pointing out that our founding fathers also were indeed traitors.
tirdun said:
Again, I never dismissed it as “popular opinion” and/or “majority”. Those are your words.
tirdun said:
I admittedly and unfortunately are guilty of the same. However, you are not following through with your:
“People gather information and make judgments based on the information presented, updating those judgments as they go. People change their opinion when the content of a person's character is revealed.”
You are not gathering any other information. “You fly/display the flag you’re a racist” seems to be your MO. I tend (I’m not perfect) to try the “content of character” route first, and as a last resort revert to external attributes, and only then with a grain of salt. If a symbol is carried specifically at a “hate” rally, I don’t judge the intimate objects at the rally, I judge the content and character of those people participating in that rally. If I see a bumper sticker on someone’s car, I don’t judge the content or character of that person, the best I can do is comment on their driving.
However you do not call it “prejudiced” when you label someone a racist base on any fact of that person other than what they are wearing/displaying.tirdun said:
tirdun said:
Let me see if I understand this. You are saying that there is “no wonderful Southern Heritage to claim”? I’d like to know what are wonderful heritages that someone could claim, why they are legitimate, and why those south of the Mason Dixon out of luck. (Do we also need majority opinion on this also?)
And while we’re on that, I have yet to defend and/or claim any “heritage”. I will however, defend that no one should be called a racist simply because they are proud to be from a certain part of the country. Or, that their great grandfathers fought in a war, however grotesque is part of the history of this Great Nation, and if they want to display some tribute to those fathers, Union or Confederate, they should not be afraid to do so. Least they offend “said majority” because of some preconceived notion.
I find it a tribute, to both sides, that this Country survived (albeit with great pangs) after such a civil rift. That Sir, is the Heritage that I claim.
Cali Transplant
Have boat will travel
tirdun
staring into the abyss
Then we agree.awg9tech said:
You being unable to accept that the flag is understood to represent an ugly and unsupportable moral position is not my problem.awg9tech said:
YOUR words in post 38 of this thread suggest some popularity contest.
You are sarcastically suggesting that a popular poll be taken to determine the meaning of symbols.awg9tech said:
If a person displays a recognized symbol of hate, it is not my responsibility to ensure that I have delved into his every reasoning. If I see a US/CSA flag setup, I can assume historical significance. If I see the CSA battle flag, I am fully justified in taking at face value what that person is advertising. If I wear a burning cross shirt and people take offense, I am at fault, not the people who interpreted it.
Oh absolutely there is, but it has no association with that banner.awg9tech said:
Then don't fly the Battle Flag of the Confederate States of America. There's a wealth of other, more accurate banners.
Then frame the flag of their regiment. Or find their grave. Or learn what else they did besides fight a war. Or find out who else in your family served in for other armies or other wars. None of that is represented by that flag.
Again, your inability to understand or unwillingness to believe that the flag has achieved the level of symbolism in the country that it has is beyond my powers to change.
Then fly the correct banner or stop defending those who won't.
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Larry Gude
Strung Out
Bust...
They are different. One goes to the right and the other to the left. Can't remember which is which.
Bustem' Down said:
They are different. One goes to the right and the other to the left. Can't remember which is which.
willie
Well-Known Member
Larry Gude
Strung Out
I stand corrected again...
...I thought the Hindu peace symbol went the other way.
willie said:
...I thought the Hindu peace symbol went the other way.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Dear "unsigned..."
Bring it.
Bring it.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Oh thank God!
...not sure how I would deal with being wrong twice in the same week!
I give myself partial credit!
willie said:
...not sure how I would deal with being wrong twice in the same week!
I give myself partial credit!
OrneryPest
lower life form
There's a house on H.G.Trueman Road about perhaps a bit less than a mile or so north of Middleham Chapel that's got a Confederate Flag flying in the yard. I've bicycled past the place regularly and have never seen anything strangely amiss about the place, or anything like that, so I personally see no offense, but several of the folks in our church are really upset about it. I've never considered invading this family's privacy to demand any sort of explanation for their choice of flag, and I refuse to join a few of my fellow church members who are insistent upon accosting them about the presumed offense.
But then I'm a newcomer, having moved to Maryland from Nebraska in 1967. I just don't understand. I really don't know all about what a Confederate Flag is supposed to be a symbol of.
But then I'm a newcomer, having moved to Maryland from Nebraska in 1967. I just don't understand. I really don't know all about what a Confederate Flag is supposed to be a symbol of.
migtig
aka Mrs. Giant
Very accurate read about the true history of the swastika if anybody is interested in actually learning:willie said:
http://www.intelinet.org/swastika/swastika_intro.htm
Unfortunatly, Hitler and his gang of thugs, misused this beautiful rune meaning "life force" along with the SS symbol which was another rune used inappropriately. These runes were used by the Nazi party to perpetuate the myth of the "Ideal" Aryan race. Sad, since the symbols actually represent the good life force / energy that is within us and connects us to the gods and goddesses.
Is the Polish one technically a swastika? I thought a swastika had to have the ends of the Greek cross bent to the right at right angles. The Polish one bends to the left.willie said:
migtig
aka Mrs. Giant
My comments on the bumper sticker -
The uneducated are idiots, let it go.
My comments on the flag -
Below are attachments of the CSA flag - the first flag was changed since it caused confusion on the battlefield, 2nd flag was further revised into the 3rd flag which was the final flag for the CSA. The fourth flag is the Battle Flag. The last flag is the Rebel flag aka the Southern Cross aka the Navy Jack flag flown by ships. Anything else you see representing the CSA is either unit or state flags.
As for the flag being illegal - well it was - but only during the reconstruction period. At that time public display of any of the Confederate flags was illegal in the states occupied by Federal troops. However, that has since changed and many states have some part of one of the CSA flags as part of their state flag - ie Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi...
Civil War historian and southerner Shelby Foote, stated "The CSA flag traditionally represented the south's resistance to northern political dominance generally; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when protecting segregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance. A 1994 Harris poll showed that 68% of blacks nationwide did not find the flag offensive. That same poll showed 92% of southern people, of all races, did not find it offensive. "
The uneducated are idiots, let it go.
My comments on the flag -
Below are attachments of the CSA flag - the first flag was changed since it caused confusion on the battlefield, 2nd flag was further revised into the 3rd flag which was the final flag for the CSA. The fourth flag is the Battle Flag. The last flag is the Rebel flag aka the Southern Cross aka the Navy Jack flag flown by ships. Anything else you see representing the CSA is either unit or state flags.
As for the flag being illegal - well it was - but only during the reconstruction period. At that time public display of any of the Confederate flags was illegal in the states occupied by Federal troops. However, that has since changed and many states have some part of one of the CSA flags as part of their state flag - ie Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi...
Civil War historian and southerner Shelby Foote, stated "The CSA flag traditionally represented the south's resistance to northern political dominance generally; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when protecting segregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance. A 1994 Harris poll showed that 68% of blacks nationwide did not find the flag offensive. That same poll showed 92% of southern people, of all races, did not find it offensive. "
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