Bush haters rejoice...

[UrbanPancake]

I think you hit the conservative butt licker with that jab!!!!!!LOL

 

[sleuth]

Healthcare... is not a right.

I don't care how you spin it.
A doctor is a professional just like anyone else. The cost of his services are determined by supply and demand.

Under a national healthcare system, all doctors would be forced to give healthcare at whatever prices the government set.

You can't force a doctor to give care if he doesn't want to. Just like you can't force me to be a salesman if I don't want to. And who in the hell are you, to even try to force a doctor to do something. He is not a slave. He is a free human being just like you or me.

Doctor's spend 8 years in school, and by the time they graduate, they are swamped in student loans and debt. Then they have their residencies they have to complete before they can really take advantage of all that hard work and education.

And you want the government to regulate how they take advantage of it.

I don't care why a doctor goes into the practice. I don't care if it's because he wants to make a million a year, or because he genuinely cares about helping people, just so long as he does a good job when I need him.

The moment you make healthcare a "right" rather than a "privilege", doctors will no longer have control over who and how they practice. It will be government mandated. And that is not the doctor I want treating me.

I pay good money for my healthcare insurance. I scrounged and paid my way through college to have a job where I would be offered good benefits, rather than working 2 minimum wage jobs to scrape my way through life.

Why should someone who didn't go to all the pains that I went to have a comparable or better healthcare plan than I, when they're not paying for it. You think that it's not fair that poor people don't have great healthcare benefits. I don't think it's fair that I have to pay for mine with my hard-earned dollar and they get off scot-free.

 

[T.Rally]

I guess that's why all those Canadians are trying to get to our healthcare system?...haha. Must be why they're all so sick up there in the north huh?

Canada is currently experiencing a doctor shortage and it is only growing worse. The doctor shortage is hurting the economies of small towns seeking to attract businesses.

The truth of the matter is Canada is in real trouble. Not only their health care but their entire economy as well. To use Canada as an example is a sure way to turn people against a national system. Come to think of it, keep touting it.

 

[UrbanPancake]

Healthcare... is not a right.

I don't care how you spin it.
A doctor is a professional just like anyone else. The cost of his services are determined by supply and demand.

Under a national healthcare system, all doctors would be forced to give healthcare at whatever prices the government set.

You can't force a doctor to give care if he doesn't want to. Just like you can't force me to be a salesman if I don't want to. And who in the hell are you, to even try to force a doctor to do something. He is not a slave. He is a free human being just like you or me.

Doctor's spend 8 years in school, and by the time they graduate, they are swamped in student loans and debt. Then they have their residencies they have to complete before they can really take advantage of all that hard work and education.

And you want the government to regulate how they take advantage of it.

I don't care why a doctor goes into the practice. I don't care if it's because he wants to make a million a year, or because he genuinely cares about helping people, just so long as he does a good job when I need him.

The moment you make healthcare a "right" rather than a "privilege", doctors will no longer have control over who and how they practice. It will be government mandated. And that is not the doctor I want treating me.

I pay good money for my healthcare insurance. I scrounged and paid my way through college to have a job where I would be offered good benefits, rather than working 2 minimum wage jobs to scrape my way through life.

Why should someone who didn't go to all the pains that I went to have a comparable or better healthcare plan than I, when they're not paying for it. You think that it's not fair that poor people don't have great healthcare benefits. I don't think it's fair that I have to pay for mine with my hard-earned dollar and they get off scot-free.

You ding bat most Government run Healthcare systems operate with subsidies also. That would counter the lower cost of healthcare. Plus with John Kerry's help we will make College more affordable for American's, meaning that becoming a Doctor will be more attainable for most American's, and more affordable, I thought I should mention that twice.

Since you want to argue I suggest you tell me what George Dumbya's policy is on Healthcare?

 

[UrbanPancake]

Healthcare... is not a right.

I pay good money for my healthcare insurance. I scrounged and paid my way through college to have a job where I would be offered good benefits, rather than working 2 minimum wage jobs to scrape my way through life.

Why should someone who didn't go to all the pains that I went to have a comparable or better healthcare plan than I, when they're not paying for it. You think that it's not fair that poor people don't have great healthcare benefits. I don't think it's fair that I have to pay for mine with my hard-earned dollar and they get off scot-free.

I guess you think everyone is born into a strong family with love and happiness... Well your wrong. Some children come from farmers with little or no money for college and healthcare. So because they provide America with food they should suffer for their career decisions? Most farmers are born into the industry, they don't decide on it. Also some families hit hard times such drug and alcohol addiction. Those families deserve a second chance to contribute something to soceity. Also by the way, if it wasn't for those people making minimum wages you wouldn't be able to afford those McDonalds burgers for lunch everyday.

 

[sleuth]

You ding bat most Government run Healthcare systems operate with subsidies also. That would counter the lower cost of healthcare. Plus with John Kerry's help we will make College more affordable for American's, meaning that becoming a Doctor will be more attainable for most American's, and more affordable, I thought I should mention that twice.

Since you want to argue I sujest you tell me what George Dumbya's policy is on Healthcare?

It's a known fact that college tuition tends to increase the more it is subsidized.

That's just it. I don't want a healthcare or a college system run with subsidies. I want free market. Free markets breed competition and bring down prices.

And I don't want "most Americans" to become doctors. I want only the people who truly *want* to become doctors and are willing to put up with the hard work, long years of schooling, and tough times in the beginning of their careers. Because then, I know they really want it. I know they're probably good doctors.

You put every Tom, Dick, and Harry into medical school and that is what will drive up costs of college.

George W.'s policy on healthcare is to leave the actual "healthcaring" to the medical professionals, while working on helping American's to pay for it by reducing frivolous lawsuits, protecting doctors from bogus medical malpractice lawsuits, health savings plans, and other points which will in effect bring down the cost of healthcare and increase the quality at the same time.

 

[UrbanPancake]

George W.'s policy on healthcare is to leave the actual "healthcaring" to the medical professionals, while working on helping American's to pay for it by reducing frivolous lawsuits, protecting doctors from bogus medical malpractice lawsuits, health savings plans, and other points which will in effect bring down the cost of healthcare and increase the quality at the same time.

I agree on lowering the bogus medical malpractice lawsuits, but how will Doctors and insurance companies making terrible, life threatening judgements be held accountable for what they have done? Slap them on the hand? Tell them they've been bad?

Maybe it's because George protects the interest of Big Insurance Companies.

 

[T.Rally]

Since you want to argue I sujest you tell me what George Dumbya's policy is on Healthcare?

Since you wanted to know;

1.Association Health Plans (AHPs) will help small businesses provide affordable health insurance coverage to their workers. AHPs will give America's working families greater access to affordable health insurance by allowing small businesses to band together through trade groups and negotiate on behalf of their employees and their families.

2.Millions of Americans will get help with their out-of-pocket medical expenses through health savings accounts (HSAs).The Medicare bill that President Bush signed into law will enable people who purchase high-deductible health insurance coverage to establish health savings accounts. These tax-exempt, portable accounts will help families pay their routine medical expenses and provide a tax-preferred means of saving for future health care needs.

3.New health insurance deductions will make coverage more affordable to millions of Americans whose employers don't provide health benefits. The President's proposal will allow individuals who establish HSAs to deduct the premiums they pay for their high-deductible health insurance policies. This new deduction will be available to taxpayers whether or not they itemize. It will reduce the net cost of these policies and encourage the use of HSAs for making wise, cost-effective health care choices.

4.Refundable tax credits will make health insurance more affordable to millions of low-income Americans. The President has proposed to establish refundable tax credits of up to $1,000 for individuals and $3,000 for families to help low-income workers buy health insurance coverage.

5.Medical liability reform will help improve health care quality and slow the rise in health care costs. President Bush believes these needed reforms will increase access to quality, affordable health care for all Americans, while reducing frivolous and time-consuming legal proceedings against doctors and health care providers that are driving good providers out of communities across the country.

 

[sleuth]

I guess you think everyone is born into a strong family with love and happiness... Well your wrong. Some children come from farmers with little or no money for college and healthcare. So because they provide America with food they should suffer for their career decisions? Most farmers are born into the industry, they don't decide on it. Also some families hit hard times such drug and alcohol addiction. Those families deserve a second chance to contribute something to soceity. Also by the way, if it wasn't for those people making minimum wages you wouldn't be able to afford those McDonalds burgers for lunch everyday.

You know what... for thousands of years, not everyone has been born into families of love and happiness, but they made something of themselves.

You seem to think the world owes these people something. That you or I owe them something. I got news for ya... I don't owe anything to anybody except me and my family.

So don't rip the shirt off my back just so you have a blanket. I earn what I make through my own blood, sweat, and tears. My blood, sweat, and tears do not belong to you or anyone, except me.

 

[UrbanPancake]

Since you wanted to know;

1.Association Health Plans (AHPs) will help small businesses provide affordable health insurance coverage to their workers. AHPs will give America's working families greater access to affordable health insurance by allowing small businesses to band together through trade groups and negotiate on behalf of their employees and their families.

2.Millions of Americans will get help with their out-of-pocket medical expenses through health savings accounts (HSAs).The Medicare bill that President Bush signed into law will enable people who purchase high-deductible health insurance coverage to establish health savings accounts. These tax-exempt, portable accounts will help families pay their routine medical expenses and provide a tax-preferred means of saving for future health care needs.

3.New health insurance deductions will make coverage more affordable to millions of Americans whose employers don't provide health benefits. The President's proposal will allow individuals who establish HSAs to deduct the premiums they pay for their high-deductible health insurance policies. This new deduction will be available to taxpayers whether or not they itemize. It will reduce the net cost of these policies and encourage the use of HSAs for making wise, cost-effective health care choices.

4.Refundable tax credits will make health insurance more affordable to millions of low-income Americans. The President has proposed to establish refundable tax credits of up to $1,000 for individuals and $3,000 for families to help low-income workers buy health insurance coverage.

5.Medical liability reform will help improve health care quality and slow the rise in health care costs. President Bush believes these needed reforms will increase access to quality, affordable health care for all Americans, while reducing frivolous and time-consuming legal proceedings against doctors and health care providers that are driving good providers out of communities across the country.

Now be serious. How will poor American's who don't own Homes will be able to deduct these costs from there taxes when they can't itemize? These tax credits would only benefit the people that can already afford great Insurance, I'm talking about poor American's.

What about all the Contratual positions that have been created since Bush has taken office? They don't receive any Health Benefits at all, they wouldn't benefit from a single policy that Bush supports. (By the way most people providing contractual work are looking for full time employment but they can't find it, probably because their field has been outsourced to Asia)

 

[sleuth]

Now be serious. How will poor American's who don't own Homes will be able to deduct these costs from there taxes when they can't itemize? These tax credits would only benefit the people that can already afford great Insurance, I'm talking about poor American's.

What about all the Contratual positions that have been created since Bush has taken office? They don't receive any Health Benefits at all, they wouldn't benefit from a single policy that Bush supports. (By the way most people providing contractual work are looking for full time employment but they can't find it, probably because their field has been outsourced to Asia)

I fail to see where home ownership is a requirement for any of those 5 points.

And second... only 2% of the total jobs lost because of Clinton's policies were outsourced to other countries. 98% of the total jobs lost were right here in the homeland, because of layoffs and downsizing.

And third... what about all the foreign companies that do business in America? They or their subsidiaries supply jobs to a very significant percentage of Americans. If you want American companies to take their business out of foreign countries, i.e. if you want to shut down a free market and regulate it, then you have to play it both ways and kick the foreign companies out of America. Then we'll see how many jobs are lost. Get real, you support policies of smoke and mirrors.

 

[UrbanPancake]

I fail to see where home ownership is a requirement for any of those 5 points.

And second... only 2% of the total jobs lost because of Clinton's policies were outsourced to other countries. 98% of the total jobs lost were right here in the homeland, because of layoffs and downsizing.

And third... what about all the foreign companies that do business in America? They or their subsidiaries supply jobs to a very significant percentage of Americans. If you want American companies to take their business out of foreign countries, i.e. if you want to shut down a free market and regulate it, then you have to play it both ways and kick the foreign companies out of America. Then we'll see how many jobs are lost. Get real, you support policies of smoke and mirrors.

Smoke and Mirrors???? I don't think so. I said earlier in this forum, that I support tax cuts to companies that retain employees in the US. I said nothing about regulating the free market. Geez, read some of the past posts.

When you deduct something from your taxes that means you itemize... well it only benefits you to itemize if your going to get back more through itemization, then through the traditional route. That is why I mentioned homeownership. Most homeowners itemize their taxes because they can deduct the interest which is pretty substantial, and it benefits them. That said, low income earners usually don't own their own homes.

 

[T.Rally]

Now be serious. How will poor American's who don't own Homes will be able to deduct these costs from there taxes when they can't itemize? These tax credits would only benefit the people that can already afford great Insurance, I'm talking about poor American's.

What about all the Contratual positions that have been created since Bush has taken office? They don't receive any Health Benefits at all, they wouldn't benefit from a single policy that Bush supports. (By the way most people providing contractual work are looking for full time employment but they can't find it, probably because their field has been outsourced to Asia)

If a person works, they will benefit from President Bush's proposal. See number 3 - "available to taxpayers whether or not they itemize."

There has to be incentive to ascend in life. Senator Kerry's proposals not only eliminate that incentive but encourage people to do less.

I'm done talking about healthcare. All you democrats talk about is free health care but worldwide evidence shows it doesn't work. President Bush's proposals are the clear winner.

 

[sleuth]

If a person works, they will benefit from President Bush's proposal. See number 3 - "available to taxpayers whether or not they itemize."

There has to be incentive to ascend in life. Senator Kerry's proposals not only eliminate that incentive but encourage people to do less.

I'm done talking about healthcare. All you democrats talk about is free health care but worldwide evidence shows it doesn't work. President Bush's proposals are the clear winner.

It's kinda like them talking about how great Communism is but worldwide evidence shows it doesn't work, either. :shrug:

 

[UrbanPancake]

That sounds stupid. In Norway they have a national healthcare system and they make more per person then American's do. So your theory doesn't work here. People have a desire for material goods. Low paying jobs doesn't allow a person to consume as much. So the dream to better yourself will always be there. Give that some thought.

 

[2ndAmendment]

If you would leave your cute little subdivision and see the real world with real problems, (your biggest problem must be getting the Home Owners Association to cut the grass along the service road ) you would see that America could be better, and greater, like the superpower that it is.
Plus with all the money we waste on a war that the President lied to us about we could have had a National Healthcare System in place.

Do you have any concept of what the U.S. Constitution is? Is is the *ONLY* authority that the Federal government has to do anything. There is *NO* Constitutional authority for: health care, education, welfare in any form, NASA, Air Force, FEMA, and that is just the start of the list. As I pointed out, the Democrats being liberal has nothing to do with liberal thought. It has to do with a liberal interpretation of the Constitution so they can do what they please. Of course the Republicans are almost as guilty of expanding the Federal government. It is called *POWER OVER THE PEOPLE*.

And don't say times change or the Constitution is a living document. It is only "living" in that the writers included a way to amend it. I posted this elsewhere, but for your sake, here it is again.

"On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823. ME 15:449

 

[2ndAmendment]

Did I not here the President,

The word is "hear". Your intellect is showing.

 

[UrbanPancake]

Hold UP Bush supports BIG GOVERNMENT

Do you have any concept of what the U.S. Constitution is? Is is the *ONLY* authority that the Federal government has to do anything. There is *NO* Constitutional authority for: health care, education, welfare in any form, NASA, Air Force, FEMA, and that is just the start of the list. As I pointed out, the Democrats being liberal has nothing to do with liberal thought. It has to do with a liberal interpretation of the Constitution so they can do what the please. Of course the Republican are almost as guilty of expanding the Federal government. It is called *POWER OVER THE PEOPLE*.

And don't say times change or the Constitution is a living document. It is only "living" in that the writers included a way to amend it. I posted this elsewhere, but for your sake, here it is again.

Under Bush our Government Agency's have become bigger...... not smaller. He's the first President to be elected who hasn't reduced Government Agency's. That says a lot about his conservative values.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...and there half the cost,... then enough money to

Intellect showing. The words are "they're" (contraction of they are) and "than". "Then" is a point in time; "than" is used in comparisons. Of course you are not the only one that makes that mistake on this board.

 

[jlabsher]

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