Bush haters rejoice...

[SamSpade]

I really don't understand why Republicans get so Frustrated when some one who doesn't agree with them challenges their belief system. (Example like Bush in the Debate with Kerry, those faces killed me; I wonder if that is how he acts around foreign leaders when they question him? )

You don't understand that someone might *show a face* when someone disagrees with them? Geez. You're telling me you never demonstrate *anything* when someone disagrees with you?

If you think those faces are such an impediment, you must have LOVED Gore's sighs and sounds of exasperation during HIS first debate with Bush. Most people believe that bit of adolescent behavior cost him the debate.

But it ain't Republicans who really don't tolerate dissent. Around the nation, Democrats are getting *violent* over Bush/Cheney.

 

[aps45819]

Why?

Because I already pased good karma to him and the forum rules won't allow me to give him any more for a while dur

 

[UrbanPancake]

If I had been debating Kerry, I would have probably made those kind of faces too. I would be thinking, "How can this guy think like that?"

I can't help it if Bush thought he was going to a nine minute debate and then found out it was 90 minutes long. Kerry thoughtfully laid out his plans and was clear on his stance on issues. I couldn't guess what Bush was clear on, except that he made a mistake going into Iraq, and he likes to purse his lips . Bush is the true flip flopper. During his first run for president he said he would leave gay marriage up to the states, now he backs a federal amendment to ban gay marriage. That is a true flip flopper .

 

[Larry Gude]

Wow...

I really don't understand why Republicans get so Frustrated when some one who doesn't agree with them challenges their belief system.

...you don't read what you write, do you? At least not in a comprehensive fashion.

Your first post:

The only reason Bush went to war with Iraq is to fight a war that his father couldn't win, to make Haliburton a little bit richer, and because he's Dick Cheney's puppet. Also, in case you did't know, the Bush's have made their money on oil, that could be another reason why we went to war with Iraq?That's the truth wether you like it or not.

You have, clearly, a personal animus against a person you don't know and have never met or talked to. There's no challenge to a Republicans belief system when your disagreements are based not on policy, things that can be discussed and debated, but on your own emotion based opposition.

For example, assuming what you say is true, the policy question still stands; was deposing Hussien in the national interest? The Iraq War Resolution, which I'm sure you've read, makes the affirmative case now as it did when it was passed by our congress.

So, you're left hating Bush and not discussing the issue at hand. That, pathetic as it is, doesn't threaten me other than that you have the power of the vote. Hey, you get enough votes, you win, I can deal with it. Can you deal with losing?

 

[2ndAmendment]

UrbanPancake, you have nothing original to stay, so reading this thread has become a waste of time. Off to do better things. comes to mind.

 

[UrbanPancake]

Bush's Domestic Policies/If he has any?

Since Bush has been so busy fighting this war with Iraq he has ignored the economic climate of the Nation. Oil prices have surged pass 52 dollars a barrel?! Bush has done nothing to remedy this problem. He's the first president since Hoover to lose jobs on his watch?!! The price of college has become out of reach for many low and middle income families under his watch. The price of Healthcare has gone up 35% making it hard for small companies, and self employed individuals to provide health insurance. These issues further seperate the haves from the have nots. Think about this. I'm sure these issues have affected all of your families? Do you really want somebody in office who doesn't care about you or your family while they fight a needless war with your hard earned tax dollars?

 

[aps45819]

Bush is the true flip flopper. During his first run for president he said he would leave gay marriage up to the states, now he backs a federal amendment to ban gay marriage. That is a true flip flopper .

So is your real issue with Bush that he doesn't support your desire to marry some guy?

 

[SamSpade]

I couldn't guess what Bush was clear on, except that he made a mistake going into Iraq, and he likes to purse his lips . Bush is the true flip flopper. During his first run for president he said he would leave gay marriage up to the states, now he backs a federal amendment to ban gay marriage. That is a true flip flopper .

Bush likes to purse his lips? Kerry likes to tilt his head to the side - the *left* side, of course. And he seems to play a weird kind of pocket pool.

But *BUSH* flip-flopping on Gay Marriage? He's never been *for* it - really, it's only been a matter of how much he is against it. *Cheney* has always believed it a matter of the states. I don't agree with him on this, but he's been fairly consistent.

Kerry is another story. While his position is similar to mine, depending on who he's talking to, he keeps trying to demonize the President's position even though he's against same-sex marriage. He favors civil unions (as I do) and is against gay marriage, but continues to rail about the President depriving people of their rights. How is his position any different?

 

[UrbanPancake]

...you don't read what you write, do you? At least not in a comprehensive fashion.

Your first post:



You have, clearly, a personal animus against a person you don't know and have never met or talked to. There's no challenge to a Republicans belief system when your disagreements are based not on policy, things that can be discussed and debated, but on your own emotion based opposition.

For example, assuming what you say is true, the policy question still stands; was deposing Hussien in the national interest? The Iraq War Resolution, which I'm sure you've read, makes the affirmative case now as it did when it was passed by our congress.

So, you're left hating Bush and not discussing the issue at hand. That, pathetic as it is, doesn't threaten me other than that you have the power of the vote. Hey, you get enough votes, you win, I can deal with it. Can you deal with losing?

You can't truely take a debate on a website to seriously. Of course I'm emotional. I truely believe that Bush does't have the Middle Class issues in mind. I feel he is out of touch with true hard working Americans. Americans deserve a better domestic policy then what Dubba has provided, which is nothing. We are the richest nation in the world but we can't even provide our citizens with Healthcare and a decent Educational system. No figure.

 

[aps45819]

The price of Healthcare has gone up 35% making it hard for small companies, and self employed individuals to provide health insurance.

You do realize that a lot of the increase is due to increased legal costs at every level of health care. Anybody makes one little mistake and some lawyer (like John Edwards) will sue you.

 

[UrbanPancake]

Bush likes to purse his lips? Kerry likes to tilt his head to the side - the *left* side, of course. And he seems to play a weird kind of pocket pool.

But *BUSH* flip-flopping on Gay Marriage? He's never been *for* it - really, it's only been a matter of how much he is against it. *Cheney* has always believed it a matter of the states. I don't agree with him on this, but he's been fairly consistent.

Kerry is another story. While his position is similar to mine, depending on who he's talking to, he keeps trying to demonize the President's position even though he's against same-sex marriage. He favors civil unions (as I do) and is against gay marriage, but continues to rail about the President depriving people of their rights. How is his position any different?

Bush has been very clear he supports the FMA, but during his first run for President he said it should be left to the States. That is flip flopping!

 

[SamSpade]

Since Bush has been so busy fighting this war with Iraq he has ignored the economic climate of the Nation. Oil prices have surged pass 52 dollars a barrel?! Bush has done nothing to remedy this problem. He's the first president since Hoover to lose jobs on his watch?!! The price of college has become out of reach for many low and middle income families under his watch. The price of Healthcare has gone up 35% making it hard for small companies, and self employed individuals to provide health insurance. These issues further seperate the haves from the have nots. Think about this. I'm sure these issues have affected all of your families? Do you really want somebody in office who doesn't care about you or your family while they fight a needless war with your hard earned tax dollars?

1. The president has little control over the price of oil, but if you must know, in constant dollars, the price of a gallon of gas has barely changed in forty years. And you and I know he'd be pounded if he chose to tap the national reserve before an election.

2. After 9/11, we lost over 2 million jobs, and Bush took office in the midst of a recession he didn't create. Since then, we've recovered nearly all of those jobs, and the economy is growing at a rate unseen in twenty years. Edwards was very careful to ignore 2004 data regarding jobs. Did you know that the 1.7 million jobs added in the past year in the United States is more than the jobs created in Germany, Japan, Great Britain, Canada, and France *COMBINED*? That's phenomenal.

3. College. Ah yes. It's soooo bad that college enrollment is at an all-time high, ESPECIALLY among minorities, for whom Bush has been targetting for enrollment.

Aw geez. Why bother going on.

 

[SamSpade]

Bush has been very clear he supports the FMA, but during his first run for President he said it should be left to the States. That is flip flopping!

And most states have laws against it, including Massachusetts. NO difference in how he believes, just how it will be done.

And I'd like to see where he said that about the states. To my knowledge, he hasn't said that.

 

[SamSpade]

You can't truely take a debate on a website to seriously. Of course I'm emotional. I truely believe that Bush does't have the Middle Class issues in mind. I feel he is out of touch with true hard working Americans. Americans deserve a better domestic policy then what Dubba has provided, which is nothing. We are the richest nation in the world but we can't even provide our citizens with Healthcare and a decent Educational system. No figure.

Of course, *KERRY* IS in touch with Middle Class America, something he's never even been close to - growing up hob-nobbing with the Kennedys. I think the fact that he had a fire hydrant moved from in front of his home in Boston so he could park his SUV there (the one he doesn't own) says it all - he's more concerned about himself than anyone else.

We have the best health care in the world, and our educational system has people the world over streaming to take advantage of it. In many other nations, it's not available to everyone, which is why some of their numbers look so good - when only the elite can go, of course they'll score high.

 

[Hessian]

Philosophical roots diverge....

Urban Pancake: At the root of much of your disgust is this idea that government should come up with the cure for every possible problem.
This is enormously different from the philosophy of our founders.

They wanted to provide for a system that would protect freedoms, and ensure domestic tranquility and allow its citizens certain guarrantees. NO where did they every dream of the government providing jobs, building housing, feeding school kids, subsidizing drugs, etc etc. You are the product of teachers in the 60's who decided that government should meet our needs & wants. (ie "great society.") This poison will strangle our capitalist society, and discourage people from taking risks, venturing capital in a sea of regulations & taxes.

This is why I am more & more convinced we must return to our constitutional roots..not the creation of activist judges, or the enormous bulging of federal agencies...not the millions of suckling piglets who demand food, housing, jobs, medical care, education, and senior care...then blame the rich (for not paying "their fair share") when they don't get more programs. They are little more than ignorant leaches who take and do not contribute. But what is worse: they vote (sometimes twice )

 

[Pete]

I'm not condoning what happened to the WTC. I think we're right in going to Afghanistan and rooting out the terrorist, but we had no right to go to Iraq. Because we went to Iraq we lost sight in , and at installing a new government of there choice, instead of the puppet that we placed as the President. (This is why Terror cells are growing, they see America as Imperalistic, just like the former Europeans who called there countries colonies)

Hiya Sparx GO GO AFL CIO

 

[Larry Gude]

Oh gosh...

You can't truely take a debate on a website to seriously.

That is the most profoundly absurd thing I've ever read. There is no BETTER format than online.

You can set your emotions aside which tends to be tough if you are face to face with someone spewing nonsense.

You can present your case at leisure instead of chomping at the bit to correct another absurd allegation by your nimwit opponent.

No stupid stop/go/ running out of time lights.

No moderator is needed.

You have THE resource of all time, the web, at your fingertips such as:

http://www.detnews.com/2002/nation/0210/11/nation-609425.htm

So, how about you and I debate a single issue, say, well, the Iraq War?

Tell me what you disagree with about the IWR and remember, Sen. Edwards, Sen. Kerry, W, Dick and I are a pretty tough group!

Your turn, go!

 

[aps45819]

This poison will strangle our capitalist society, and discourage people from taking risks, venturing capital in a sea of regulations & taxes.

One reason for rising gas prices. Nobody is willing to build any new refinerys because they can't get through the regs and the Not In My Backyard lawsuits.

 

[Steve]

This has been a very fascinating discussion thus far...I can hardly wait to see where it goes! The anticipation is killing me!

 

[Aimhigh2000]

Flip Flopper

Did I not here the President, George dumbya say tonight that, "Well, Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction, but he might have tried to make them if sanctions were lifted." Now, if that is not FLIPFLOPPING I don't know what is. Now, all you dumbya fans have to concede that he said it (on all the news channels) and that he lied. Well, I just had to put my two cents in.

Just a sermon, not a thought