Did the Pope just say unless your Catholic....

[2ndAmendment]

Did the Pope just say u... 07-14-2007 04:06 PM It's good that you are at least a christian but you are not reading the right books or something. The catholic church was the first true church. Your church likely came along many years later to suit the beliefs of a group of people

Christians should have courage, even Catholics that are Christians. Signing karma should be the least of bounds for courage. If you don't have the courage of your convictions to stand behind them, why should anyone care what your opinion is?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Did the Pope just say u... 07-16-2007 12:08 PM A touch of anonymous green to offset anonymous red should bring you back up to speed.... Anonymous

Thanks, but that was not the point.

 

[Radiant1]

We disagree on much doctrine. Let's leave it at that.

Sure. We wouldn't want facts and logic to get in the way of your cognitive dissonance.



JMJ

 

[2ndAmendment]

Sure. We wouldn't want facts and logic to get in the way of your cognitive dissonance.



JMJ

And we wouldn't want indoctrination to get in the way of the Bible. I don't care how many Catholic link references you post.

I'll believe the Bible over any other book when it comes to God. If doctrine conflicts with the Bible, it is not the Bible that is wrong.

I don't think Jesus is happy with any of the churches, Catholic, Pentecostal, or otherwise.

If you are a Christian, I don't care what denomination, we should be brothers and sisters in Christ. You can be a Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Catholic, or any other denomination and not be a Christian. Going to a particular building will not get you into the kingdom of heaven. Look at the example of the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees. They were very religious and went to the right "church."

 

[Radiant1]

And we wouldn't want indoctrination to get in the way of the Bible. I don't care how many Catholic link references you post.

I don't recall giving you any links, only scripture passages, historical evidence, and logic ... but hey I can't make you care. :shrug:

I'll believe the Bible over any other book when it comes to God. If doctrine conflicts with the Bible, it is not the Bible that is wrong.

Me too, I agree. But, you do realize that your stance on sola scriptura is a doctrine don't you?

I don't think Jesus is happy with any of the churches, Catholic, Pentecostal, or otherwise.

I think it safer to say 2A isn't happy with them.

If you are a Christian, I don't care what denomination, we should be brothers and sisters in Christ. You can be a Baptist, Pentecostal, Lutheran, Catholic, or any other denomination and not be a Christian. Going to a particular building will not get you into the kingdom of heaven. Look at the example of the scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees. They were very religious and went to the right "church."

Such pretty words, but you do care or you wouldn't partake in continued Catholic bashing and your hit and run (refer to post #120 in this thread) show us that your words have no substance. Once again 2A I find you to be deceitful.

 

[Radiant1]

Seems to me I remember a recent Pope saying Christ was only one way to the kingdom of God

Could you cite a source please? Thnx.



JMJ

 

[JPC sr]

Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.

Christians should have courage, even Catholics that are Christians. Signing karma should be the least of bounds for courage. If you don't have the courage of your convictions to stand behind them, why should anyone care what your opinion is?

I think the karma system works okay since it is designed to allow an anonymous posting of red or green.

I am the King of red karma and I get plenty of nasty messages,

but we have another messaging system on this forum and emails too for those that do sign their names,

the karma system is the only way for some poster to give a message anonymously so I have come to accept it as okay.

There are many occassions here and in real life when people need to relay messages through anonimity and we need to accept that of others.

An anonymous message is not really a cowardly action. It is far more cowardly to remain silent or to say nothing when there is some thing to be said.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Pope Benedict XVI is a crackpot old fool.

Did the Pope just say u... 07-14-2007 04:11 PM You're a the fool. Don't make such a stupid comment like that again, loser


Next time, don't make such a stupid grammar mistake, .

 

[ItalianScallion]

The Bible alone is not enough. It must be combined with The Deposit of Faith. Jesus never told his followers to write this down, St. John said there was much more that Jesus did that he did not write down.
Reading the Bible correctly requires extensive training. We see the results of untrained people reading the Bible themselves, with no guide. That is why the protestants are spinning out of control and all these store front "churches" crop up. As a great writer, Joseph Sobran, (his columns are on the Internet) said "Every Protestant with a Bible is his own Pope".
It is better to have the Church provide quidance from over 2000 years of study to help one understand.
Praying for people in Heaven already to intercede with you with God is not worshipping them, it is a realization that the more people praying for you the better, think of it as a prayer chain.
I think and pray that non-Catholics can get into Heaven if they never learned the truth, but I worry for those who were Catholic and fell away.

A small bit of what you say is true here but the first statement is WAYYYY wrong. Some Jews hold to an "oral tradition" and won't believe in Jesus as the Messiah and that ALONE will keep many of them out of heaven. Look at the cults. Most of them do not follow the entire Bible. Now, ANYONE can read the Bible and understand SOME OF IT easily. It does take training to further understand it but, when you get truly saved, The Holy Spirit will enable you to understand what He thinks you need to know at that point. Even John says this in 1 John 2v26,27. You need to watch what you said about it being "better to have the church provide guidance...to help one understand". This alone has caused denominations (divisions). And by "church" what do you mean? I'm afraid I already know the answer. And, what you said about praying to people in heaven is sinful & wrong. God made this clear in Isaiah 8v19 and Deuteronomy 18 v 10. THEY CAN'T HEAR YOU AND YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM! SO WHY DO IT? Jesus also severely condemned belief in "certain traditions" in Mark 7 v 6-13. Read it closely. NOTHING overrides the Bible. If God thought we should have "other oral or written info" about Him, He would have given it to us. He gave us all we need and we are not to add or remove anything.

 

[ItalianScallion]

In order to understand why Mary is the Mother of God, you have to understand and believe in the Holy Trinity. This is one thing that is different than other churches. The Catholic Church believes in a Holy Trinity: The Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and the Holy spirit. It's hard to explain the Holy Trinity, because they are three but one - not three seperate "people" but one person who resides in three ways - kind of. The best way to even begin to try and understand it is: a family of three people is still just one family. It's considered a Holy Mystery in the Catholic Church. We do not know or understand the ways of God. We simply have to have faith in things and the mysteries are what they are: mysteries. We aren't meant to understand.

Italian Stallion >> You need to educate yourself more on the Catholic Church. You really are taking alot out of context. Toxick has done a good job setting you straight on some of your misunderstandings about the Catholic Church. Heck, it's possibly the most misunderstood Church in the world.
Just know, 99% of Catholics mean no harm, they are just doing what they think is best. They are just practicing their faith in their way. You are upset at the Pope's remarks condemning other Churches, then don't be like him and condemn the Catholic Church. It makes you no better. I think the Pope maybe shouldn't have said that. If nothing else, Jesus teaches us that the most important thing is to love one another. No matter what. And tolerance, Jesus teaches us that too.
The congregation of the Catholic Church just want to admire and love God. Yeah, there's a bunch of idiots in the administration of the church that sometimes forget it's not a business, and they say and do things they shouldn't and get involved a little too much in politics. They aren't perfect - NO ONE IS. Misguided a bit, yeah, but human too! They aggravate me too - and I'm a Catholic. Sometimes I wish the Catholic Church would just worry about the faith, God, etc. and stop with press releases and junk.

Tinkerbell, you need to find the true God! You will not get to heaven with the god you just described. You said: "not 3 separate people, but one who person resides in 3 ways". That's modalism dear, look it up. This is not the God of the Bible. There is one God revealed as 3 distinct beings or entities. Three beings but each one, the same God. In Matthew 3, Jesus wasn't throwing His voice to heaven nor using a holograph for the dove that landed on Him. And He was only tolerant to some. He was VERY intolerant of the Pharisees, Saducees, teachers of the law and others. And I know more about catholicism than most on this forum because I came from 34 years in it! Nice talking to you

 

[Makavide]

He also wrote:

Revelation 22:18-1918
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

Seems adding things to the Bible may bring consequences.

Now my interpretation of these passages would be held to the adding and taking away from the book of prophecy (Book of Revelations). Yet 2A, your interpretation seems too apply to the whole Bible. Whose would be the correct view? Who is to say which one is the correct view?

 

[Makavide]

If God thought we should have "other oral or written info" about Him, He would have given it to us. He gave us all we need and we are not to add or remove anything.

Since it has been pointed out that the first Bible was finalized in 390 AD, and since that time various books have been added or removed by various "councils" and people where does it say, in the Bible, he gave us all we need. Where in the Bible does it say, these books, and only these books are the inspired writings?

I guess it must be a tradition.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Since it has been pointed out that the first Bible was finalized in 390 AD, and since that time various books have been added or removed by various "councils" and people where does it say, in the Bible, he gave us all we need. Where in the Bible does it say, these books, and only these books are the inspired writings. I guess it must be a tradition.

The canon of Scripture was closed then and there were 66 books. Those scholars had to be under the influence of the Holy Spirit so that's why they stopped there. And, yes, other books were added & removed by various councils but I considered the source and would stick with the 66 original books. Even today scholars prove the Apocryphal books to be laced with erroneous dates & teachings. Finally, in Revelation 22 v 18, 19 God is referring only to the book of Revelation because the Bible wasn't compiled yet. HOWEVER I have no trouble believing that God also meant the other 65 books too when He spoke about adding or removing verses.

 

[PsyOps]

Christians should have courage, even Catholics that are Christians. Signing karma should be the least of bounds for courage. If you don't have the courage of your convictions to stand behind them, why should anyone care what your opinion is?

The crazy thing about all of this is the Bible makes no mention about "If you belong to the very first Christian church you will go to heaven. Everyone else goes to hell!"

The Bible simply says:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." - John 3:16

and

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

BTW... I have mentioned this before; the first Christian church is mention mentioned in the Bible and it's called the "Way"

Acts 9:2, 18:26, 19:9, 19:23, 22:4, 24:14, 24:22

And not to mention what is mentioned in Revelations 1:11

"I was caught up in spirit on the Lord's day 9 and heard behind me a voice as loud as a trumpet, which said, "Write on a scroll 10 what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea." - Revelations 1:10-11

Then chapter 2 goes into detail about God's view on these CHURCHES. And God recognizes these churches.

 

[PsyOps]

I think it safer to say 2A isn't happy with them.

Can I assume that you are happy with our churches today? Where they are more driven by money and self-proclaimed power than promoting the Word of God? Where they have, within their midsts, rapists and abusers and try to find ways to cover up these things up rather than represent a beacon of light of God? Where they have become more politically motivated than spiritually?

No, I think God is quite unhappy with our chruches today; and any honest and discerning Christian can see it plain as day.

 

[Radiant1]

Can I assume that you are happy with our churches today? Where they are more driven by money and self-proclaimed power than promoting the Word of God? Where they have, within their midsts, rapists and abusers and try to find ways to cover up these things up rather than represent a beacon of light of God? Where they have become more politically motivated than spiritually?

No, I think God is quite unhappy with our chruches today; and any honest and discerning Christian can see it plain as day.

I only know what God has revealed to us and outside of that I get uncomfortable attempting to discern what God thinks for He is way beyond my comprehension; however, if I were to go there I would think God is unhappy with some (or many) people, but not churches. No-body is immune from judgment, not popes, preachers, presidents, scholars, engineers, housewives, ditch diggers, or the street urchin. Individuals, not churches, will be judged come that great and terrible day.



JMJ

 

[Radiant1]

The crazy thing about all of this is the Bible makes no mention about "If you belong to the very first Christian church you will go to heaven. Everyone else goes to hell!"

Correct. Nor does the first Christian Church, i.e. the Catholic Church, teach that. Being a Catholic doesn't assure salvation, we merely have the tools to obtain it if we so wish. We still work out our salvation with fear and trembling; afterall, "once saved always saved" is not found in Scripture or Tradition.



JMJ

 

[2ndAmendment]

Could you cite a source please? Thnx.



JMJ

Second Vatican Council "Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions", October 28, 1965.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Now my interpretation of these passages would be held to the adding and taking away from the book of prophecy (Book of Revelations). Yet 2A, your interpretation seems too apply to the whole Bible. Whose would be the correct view? Who is to say which one is the correct view?

Strictly speaking, John was referring to Revelation. But I believe that the Bible is the word of God and is inspired even in the layout and order of the books. I don't think God would leave that to chance. Each book stands on its own but is an intimate part of the whole. Therefore I think it is fitting that that admonishment in Revelation is at the end of the Bible as well.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Such pretty words, but you do care or you wouldn't partake in continued Catholic bashing and your hit and run (refer to post #120 in this thread) show us that your words have no substance. Once again 2A I find you to be deceitful.

I think you are the deceitful one, literally. I was praying and this was revealed to me. You have chosen the user name Radiant1 -> Radiant one -> Lucifer -> satan.

I find it interesting that you come pretty much out of nowhere and set Christian against Christian. May Jesus rebuke you, or if you are human and misguided, give you guidance.