Divorced Wiccans fight Judge's order.

[Kain99]

Well, what you think and what you know are two different things, aren't they?

GDIT Elaine! Now I'm all confused!

 

[mAlice]

GDIT Elaine! Now I'm all confused!

It's a good line to use on the kids when they're whining "I don't think it's fair".

 

[Tonio]

I don't think Science discredits the Bible... It just adds neat little tid bits. Adam and Eve were hairy gorilla like people and stuff like that.

You have a point. I've said before that I believe that stories like Adam and Eve are metaphors and parables, not meant to be read literally.

 

[mAlice]

GDIT

 

[Railroad]

Just a side note about discussions like this one - we all tend to forget that in debating issues, it is very rare that we'll be able to change each other's minds. So after the major participants have weighed in with their opposing (or simply differing) views, everything else becomes argument for the sake of entertainment.

People think differently about things - can't help that. I don't hate Elaine for being a pagan, and she doesn't hate me for being a Christian. Sore subjects like this one always get my attention. All it takes is a few exchanges of retorts, and off we go - and I fall for it every time. Elaine (in this case) was like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown to kick, with me being stupid enough to come back and try again and again.

So this is it - this is what I think, no need to argue with me - it's what I think:

On religious tolerance (last time around on this as well as the other points of discussion), I tolerate all religions, because I don't hold people's beliefs against them and don't actively pursue eradicating them from the landscape.

On the law vs. personal religious practices, I think the law should stay out of it unless the religion calls for things like live sacrifices or other injurious crimes.

On the issue of a child being in a Wiccan home, I feel a good degree of anxiety about the kid's parents influencing him with the evil elements of their religion.

Kay. Enough's enough. Have a fine afternoon!

 

[virgovictoria]

:grouphug:

 

[mAlice]

On the issue of a child being in a Wiccan home, I feel a good degree of anxiety about the kid's parents influencing him with the evil elements of their religion.

It sounded good up to this point, and I agree with you.

However, you are wrong to assume that because the practiced religion or belief is not alligned with your own, that it's evil or has evil elements.

 

[Kain99]

Sometimes, I have absolutely NO Class!

 

[willie]

As you might expect, my 2 cents is, the judge was right, and the wiccans and the so-called Christian that was interviewed were wrong. Ain't but one way to heaven, folks, and so all other so-called religions aren't valid.

That is not tolerance. It is arrogance whether you mean it that way or not.

 

[Railroad]

That is not tolerance. It is arrogance whether you mean it that way or not.

Call it what you want - I'm done with this discussion.

 

[HiddenOne]

That is not tolerance. It is arrogance whether you mean it that way or not.

Would it be arrogant for him to say that the sky was blue? Just because someone says what is true (at the very least in their own opinions) doesn't make it arrogant

 

[paxetonic]

That is not tolerance. It is arrogance whether you mean it that way or not.

Arrogance of faith, maybe. Pride of faith, probably. Name a devout follower of a religion that was without pride for their faith. Martin Luther and King Henry VIII do not count. These figures suffered injustices by their church, not their faith (although, King Henry broke away for spite). Were you a Jew or Mormon, would you declare another religion dominant to yours? I do not think so, especially, if you were devout.

For the Wiccans and their beliefs (the root of this thread), from a political standpoint, the Judge's ruling is probably unconstitional (Refer to "For 2A and All" thread for discussion on this). Religious tolerance is a key stone in the foundation of this country's government, indeed for our society. The Wiccans, the Jews, the Muslims, the Christians, and any other religion, no matter how great or small, whether mainstream or no, should be tolerated.

With regards to Railroad's limitation of "injurious religious acts", killing, whether human or animal, is killing. It must be understood that the definition of the word sacrifice, in its simplest form, is "the act of giving up something for something of greater purpose or pressing claim."

 

[willie]

Would it be arrogant for him to say that the sky was blue? Just because someone says what is true (at the very least in their own opinions) doesn't make it arrogant

There is a whole lot of difference in just saying the sky is blue rather than saying if you don't believe it is the shade of blue that I believe, you're going to hell. IMO, describing that as being arrogant is being generous.

 

[Triggerfish]

Would it be arrogant for him to say that the sky was blue? Just because someone says what is true (at the very least in their own opinions) doesn't make it arrogant

True according to who? Ask a Palestinian and an Israeli what the color the sky is and they'd both say blue. So would almost everyone else that is sane and can see colors correctly.

 

[Triggerfish]

Arrogance of faith, maybe. Pride of faith, probably. Name a devout follower of a religion that was without pride for their faith. Martin Luther and King Henry VIII do not count. These figures suffered injustices by their church, not their faith (although, King Henry broke away for spite). Were you a Jew or Mormon, would you declare another religion dominant to yours? I do not think so, especially, if you were devout.."

Are we discussing whether one religion is dominant over another or whether we consider other religious beliefs as valid religions that people have the right to practice freely without being persecuted? I'm asking since those two things are very different.
A lot of very religious people think of religion as a personal choice. Just because your neighbor isn't going to the same church with you doesn't make them believe automcatically that the neighbor is going straight to hell.

Christians
Moslems
Jews
Buddhists
Wiccans

all of these come in many divisions, sects, denominations or whatever you else you want to call it.

 

[paxetonic]

Overall, this thread is discussing religious tolerance. I discuss religious dominance to make a point of the difference between religious arrogance and religious pride. For an individual, their religion is dominant to all others (i.e. Christians think Christianity is dominant, Jews think Judaism is dominant, etc.).

 

[willie]

For an individual, their religion is dominant to all others (i.e. Christians think Christianity is dominant, Jews think Judaism is dominant, etc.).

You are using waaaaay too wide of a paint brush.

 

[Larry Gude]

This is about the most...

In the order, the parents were "directed to take such steps as are needed to shelter Archer from involvement and observation of these non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals." The judge let the wording stand.

...unconstitutional thing I've ever heard.

THis about the clearest and simplest violation of teh Constitution I've ever heard. Blatant comes to mind.

 

[Triggerfish]

For an individual, their religion is dominant to all others (i.e. Christians think Christianity is dominant, Jews think Judaism is dominant, etc.).

I've never heard of this opinion before. Some may think their religion is better or correct and others wrong but dominant? I do not think so. When did one religion say to another....we are more dominant than you so we have the right to command you.

Main Entry: 1dom·i·nant
Pronunciation: -n&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin dominant-, dominans, present participle of dominari
1 : commanding, controlling, or prevailing over all others
2 : overlooking and commanding from a superior position
3 : of, relating to, or exerting ecological or genetic dominance
4 : being the one of a pair of bodily structures that is the more effective or predominant in action <dominant eye>

 

[HiddenOne]

There is a whole lot of difference in just saying the sky is blue rather than saying if you don't believe it is the shade of blue that I believe, you're going to hell. IMO, describing that as being arrogant is being generous.

True enough, I was merely using that to make a basic point though. In general, almost all religions make similar claims though, that there is only one way into heaven.... yes i know there are some who make no such claim, but i'm speaking of the majority that do