Dockworkers strike

[vraiblonde]

The docks could have transitioned away from the need for these guys years ago, it's only the union and threat of crippling the economy that has prevented this.

At some point all jobs could be automated, then what will people do for a living? We'll have a bunch of billionaire corporate douchebags and everyone else on the bread line.

Hmm.....that sounds like....what?

We don't care about people anymore and I think that's sad. You can look at just the union mob boss and be repelled, but the guys who actually work for a living are real people with real families. Should they learn to code?

 

[glhs837]

I know it's fashionable to side with the faceless soulless mystery that is the US Maritime Alliance against the union workers, but I'm not a fashionable person. I think workers should be rewarded, especially when they're essential and do a labor job that nobody else wants to do. When you think about who makes all the money in this country....what do those people really contribute? If they disappeared overnight would we miss them?

I'm trying to find out who pays dock workers and how they get paid. Somebody cuts a check - who is it? Not having any luck finding that information. I'm assuming the USMX gets paid and they pay everyone on the downline but I don't know that, I'm just guessing.

Who knows the answer?

I ask because I'd like to see what those folks are pulling down. It always happens that lower tier workers want more money and the obscenely rich fat cats who control the purse strings recoil in horror, then go buy another yacht to console themselves. I'm guessing they could pay the dock workers more and give them the bennies they want and it would be no sweat off their ass, but they won't.

Things are so complicated anymore and I'm pretty sure the overlords did that on purpose. I just don't think there needs to be billionaires while people are having a hard time buying basic groceries and keeping a roof over their head. Especially when those billionaires give obscene amounts of money to rich politicians who then blather about "equity".

Hmmm, this is even defeating my GoogleFu. Odd. I can find salary ranges, but no search I can construct results in telling me who employs longshoremen in the port. Support jobs all over the place.

Best salary range I can find puts the median in the low 60s, with more in the 70s.

Longshoreman Salary in Baltimore, Maryland | Salary.com

The average Longshoreman salary in Baltimore, Maryland is $65,796 as of October 01, 2024, but the salary range typically falls between $61,306 and $71,175.

www.salary.com

But of course, you need to see the benefits to see how well they are really compensated.

Salary.com Salary Wizard- Do you know what you're worth? | Benefits Calculator | Salary.com

Calculate your benefits with the Salary Wizard Benefits Calculator.

www.salary.com

That puts the median closer to 100K.

Now, I suspect that since all employment happens through the union hall, nobody posts ads.

As for the COVID BS I went and lived in a hotel in Seattle and spent every day on the Boeing factory floor for a month doing close quarters work with 10 people for aa month in July of 2020. Didn't expect any consideration. That was the job. Needed to get done. If you are not willing, don't freaking do it. But unless you were working healthcare, screw off with using that as an excuse to blackmail the country for a fvcking pay raise.

Even if they had a case, their guy threatening us, FVCK that guy.

 

[glhs837]

At some point all jobs could be automated, then what will people do for a living? We'll have a bunch of billionaire corporate douchebags and everyone else on the bread line.

Hmm.....that sounds like....what?

We don't care about people anymore and I think that's sad. You can look at just the union mob boss and be repelled, but the guys who actually work for a living are real people with real families. Should they learn to code?

Should we cripple our effectivity because they are not willing to learn a new trade? This sort of thing has been happening since forever. New ways putting old ones out to pasture. They are people, and should care for themselves, not threaten to cripple our economy for a %70 pay raise.

 

[vraiblonde]

Should we cripple our effectivity because they are not willing to learn a new trade? This sort of thing has been happening since forever. New ways putting old ones out to pasture. They are people, and should care for themselves, not threaten to cripple our economy for a %70 pay raise.

I'm sure there's room for negotiation but USMX doesn't want to do that. I'm guessing they'd like it if all these dock workers went away so they could automate and tell the union to piss off. But again, they're putting people out of work so then what happens?

So you're 50 years old, you've been a dock worker all your life, looking forward to retirement....and now you're supposed to just learn a new trade? I'm looking at this from the perspective of the workers, not the union boss.

 

[Ken King]

I'm sure there's room for negotiation but USMX doesn't want to do that.

Except that USMX had offered 50% (over 10 years) in raise and the union walked away from the table.

 

[vraiblonde]

Except that USMX had offered 50% (over 10 years) in raise and the union walked away from the table.

I still want to argue in favor of the human workers.

This is where good government leadership would step in. Unfortunately we have President Pudding Cup and VP Giggles.

 

[Ken King]

I still want to argue in favor of the human workers.

This is where good government leadership would step in. Unfortunately we have President Pudding Cup and VP Giggles.

Did you notice USMX is back on line? You can see what they have said about negotiations.

 

[GURPS]

Best salary range I can find puts the median in the low 60s, with more in the 70s.

Base Salary for most is around 80 k ... and a LOT of OT pushing most to 180 - 200 k per yr ....

 

[GURPS]

So you're 50 years old, you've been a dock worker all your life, looking forward to retirement....and now you're supposed to just learn a new trade? I'm looking at this from the perspective of the workers, not the union boss.

Biden told West Va Coal Miners

Learn to Code ....

 

[GURPS]

Democrats PANIC Over Port Strike NUKING Economy Right Before Election, SHORTAGES COMING​

 

[glhs837]

I still want to argue in favor of the human workers.

This is where good government leadership would step in. Unfortunately we have President Pudding Cup and VP Giggles.

Then you offer 40% over four years with a timetable to automate that allows keeping the older guys on through retirement while retraining the younger guys. That 35% could be used for the training.

But the union loses long term. It ain't about the workers. It's about the power the workers give the union. Stupid non-automation requirements led to keeping some guy on the back of the trains for 20 years with nothing to do. The union wants to keep their 700k leadership money forever.

 

[vraiblonde]

Then you offer 40% over four years with a timetable to automate that allows keeping the older guys on through retirement while retraining the younger guys. That 35% could be used for the training.

But the union loses long term. It ain't about the workers. It's about the power the workers give the union. Stupid non-automation requirements led to keeping some guy on the back of the trains for 20 years with nothing to do. The union wants to keep their 700k leadership money forever.

That makes perfect sense.

I don't really know how unions work. I know how I think they work and are supposed to work, but there's always shady sh*t behind the scenes that never occurs to me. If I were one of the workers and my union negotiator walked away from a decent deal, I'd be calling for his removal. But perhaps it's like our so-called representatives in government and they just do as they please, the sheeple go along with it, then re-elect them.

 

[DaSDGuy]

At some point all jobs could be automated, then what will people do for a living? We'll have a bunch of billionaire corporate douchebags and everyone else on the bread line.

Hmm.....that sounds like....what?

We don't care about people anymore and I think that's sad. You can look at just the union mob boss and be repelled, but the guys who actually work for a living are real people with real families. Should they learn to code?

Maybe not learn to code. Maybe accept wages that keep their jobs more profitable than automation. Corporate profits are driving the issue, so the workers need to ensure corporate makes more money with them than with automation.

 

[vraiblonde]

Maybe not learn to code. Maybe accept wages that keep their jobs more profitable than automation. Corporate profits are driving the issue, so the workers need to ensure corporate makes more money with them than with automation.

That's almost impossible in this day and age. The automation is almost never as good as a human, but large entities don't care about that - they only care about profit. And employees are typically the biggest business cost.

People bitch and moan about having to check out their own groceries, and they *say* they object because it eliminates jobs. I'd think they'd also look at other industries that are reducing/eliminating humans from their workforce. At some point there won't be any jobs because everything will be automated or AI or online because it's cheaper. Then what happens?

 

[black dog]

That's almost impossible in this day and age. The automation is almost never as good as a human, but large entities don't care about that - they only care about profit. And employees are typically the biggest business cost.

People bitch and moan about having to check out their own groceries, and they *say* they object because it eliminates jobs. I'd think they'd also look at other industries that are reducing/eliminating humans from their workforce. At some point there won't be any jobs because everything will be automated or AI or online because it's cheaper. Then what happens?

We were told that in JH school 50+ years ago that computers would be replacing all of the workers. I'm still waiting for that to happen.
Computers ended up putting more people to work with the new career fields it added along with very few workers being replaced by them.

 

[SamSpade]

That's almost impossible in this day and age. The automation is almost never as good as a human, but large entities don't care about that - they only care about profit. And employees are typically the biggest business cost.

The more I read up on this, the less sympathetic I am toward the longshoreman, having originally been totally on their side. They do get paid very well but just Google most efficiently run ports in the world. Not only are we not in the top 25, but generally - last. Worse - ours have the LEAST automation.

Is there any good reason or advantage to having the least efficient ports on the planet?

 

[DaSDGuy]

That's almost impossible in this day and age. The automation is almost never as good as a human, but large entities don't care about that - they only care about profit. And employees are typically the biggest business cost.

People bitch and moan about having to check out their own groceries, and they *say* they object because it eliminates jobs. I'd think they'd also look at other industries that are reducing/eliminating humans from their workforce. At some point there won't be any jobs because everything will be automated or AI or online because it's cheaper. Then what happens?

 

[GURPS]

We were told that in JH school 50+ years ago that computers would be replacing all of the workers.

Sure there have, we no longer have huge typing pools of women, most if not all mid level managers and VP's no longer have Secretaries

lol, of course those woman went somewhere ... HR maybe


My mother came to Washington DC in the 1950's fresh out of high school ... the Federal Gov was actively recruiting in Small Town America back then

she spent some 30 yrs in the Gov. working up from a secretary to a management position by the time she retired in the late 90's ... but all those typing pools she had been a part of were gone.

Computers and laser printers changed all of that .....

 

[GURPS]

Is there any good reason or advantage to having the least efficient ports on the planet?

UNION Boss needs his cushy powerful job

 

[glhs837]

That makes perfect sense.

I don't really know how unions work. I know how I think they work and are supposed to work, but there's always shady sh*t behind the scenes that never occurs to me. If I were one of the workers and my union negotiator walked away from a decent deal, I'd be calling for his removal. But perhaps it's like our so-called representatives in government and they just do as they please, the sheeple go along with it, then re-elect them.

Its supposed to be like communism, where every persona and group of persons works for the greater good of the collective. Really where the US labor movement came from. Goes back to the Wobblies. But in reality, just like "Real Communism", the slick operators like the Mafia and despots, happy to find enough people willing to believe a fairytale will take over and convince them silly things like "If we destroy our entire educated class, our lives will be a perfect agrarian utopia!!!" Or "Central Planners can operate our farmland much more efficiently, so let Yuri run all of the Soviet Unions Farms and we'll have more food than you can imagine!!!" and "We can demand higher wages than anyone else in the industry pays and the company will stay solvent!!!"

There are unions that have resisted this, I don't think I've heard a whiff of corruption from the IBEW, for instance. And European unions are pretty good about keeping the host company not only alive but thriving. They do act as actual partners. But ones willing to cripple vital industries, screw those guys.