Electric Car News

[PeoplesElbow]

Yep, but this isnt an EV problem, its a shitty and or overpriced EV problem. We keep pointing to the US OEMs, and I keep pointing out the same thing.

I strolled the Lexington Park Ford Lot yesterday. They had about seven MAch-Es there. Lowest sticker was around 50K for a base model. The faster/better equipped ones were 60K or better.

Heres what you can go buy from Tesla today within 100 miles of here. Note these prices are before the Federal benefit of $7500 bucks. Note a lot are "arriving soon", which usually means within a week or so.

https://www.tesla.com/inventory/new/my?arrangeby=relevance&zip=20653&range=100

Or if you more zoom and a bit less range. This thing is 50K with Enhanced Autopilot, not FSB Beta, and silly fast and great performance handling. Crushes the Mach-E or Blazer in every metric except button and knob count

https://www.tesla.com/my/order/7SAY272_209c64093fd971608f6414daecf91e50?postal=20653&range=100&region=MD&coord=38.2034582,-76.39845369999999&titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

So again, why would people buy a more expensive, less capable product thats restricted to a crappy charging network? They dont.

All you have to do is have a good look at the integrated infotainment system on most new cars to realize most of these guys can't figure out how people work or how to write software that people like to use. It's almost as if they hired whoever the hell writes these awful applications for the government.

 

[glhs837]

All you have to do is have a good look at the integrated infotainment system on most new cars to realize most of these guys can't figure out how people work or how to write software that people like to use. It's almost as if they hired whoever the hell writes these awful applications for the government.

Wifes 2015 Jeep a still bit better than the 2020 BMW, but just a bit, although the BMW offers a ton more information about the vehicle.

I rent a lot of cars, took about 15 trips this last year. And generally speaking the systems are just horrible. Give me a row of "quick broad selections" along the bottom broken into very easy areas. "Climate", "Vehicle", "Entertainment", and a couple others. Inside those, give me the stuff I need most often weighted towards the top.

But things I need all the time, I need that stuff resident all the time. Fan speed, left and right temp controls. Seat heaters or coolers, although if it remembers the setting and on/off is only one level down, that's okay, since I think most people leave them set for the season. So when you think about what things you actually use all the time, its not a long list.

Rented a Subaru Outback, holy hell, just getting the radio/sirius/android auto to play well was a bitch.

This is a bit long, but shows all the details of the Tesla interface. ONe nice thing is that they let you add or remove things from the quick access bar on the bottom.

 

[GURPS]

I rent a lot of cars, took about 15 trips this last year. And generally speaking the systems are just horrible. Give me a row of "quick broad selections" along the bottom broken into very easy areas. "Climate", "Vehicle", "Entertainment", and a couple others. Inside those, give me the stuff I need most often weighted towards the top.

I think the problem is Copy Rights and Trademarks ....

There should be a ' standard ' UI ... but that cannot happen

 

[glhs837]

I think the problem is Copy Rights and Trademarks ....

There should be a ' standard ' UI ... but that cannot happen

Nor do you really want that. Stifles innovation.

 

[glhs837]

Yep, EVs dying on the vine Nobody wants them, except the almost two million people who did, this year alone.

Tesla (TSLA) releases Q4 delivery results, breaks another record

Tesla (TSLA) has released its Q4 2023, and subsequently, full-year 2023, delivery results, and the automaker has broken another delivery...

electrek.co

In the fourth quarter, we produced approximately 495,000 vehicles and delivered over 484,000 vehicles. In 2023, vehicle deliveries grew 38% YoY to 1.81 million while production grew 35% YoY to 1.85 million.

 

[phreddyp]

Yep, but this isnt an EV problem, its a shitty and or overpriced EV problem. We keep pointing to the US OEMs, and I keep pointing out the same thing.

I strolled the Lexington Park Ford Lot yesterday. They had about seven MAch-Es there. Lowest sticker was around 50K for a base model. The faster/better equipped ones were 60K or better.

Heres what you can go buy from Tesla today within 100 miles of here. Note these prices are before the Federal benefit of $7500 bucks. Note a lot are "arriving soon", which usually means within a week or so.

https://www.tesla.com/inventory/new/my?arrangeby=relevance&zip=20653&range=100

Or if you more zoom and a bit less range. This thing is 50K with Enhanced Autopilot, not FSB Beta, and silly fast and great performance handling. Crushes the Mach-E or Blazer in every metric except button and knob count

https://www.tesla.com/my/order/7SAY272_209c64093fd971608f6414daecf91e50?postal=20653&range=100&region=MD&coord=38.2034582,-76.39845369999999&titleStatus=new&redirect=no#overview

So again, why would people buy a more expensive, less capable product thats restricted to a crappy charging network? They don

Yep, EVs dying on the vine Nobody wants them, except the almost two million people who did, this year alone.

Tesla (TSLA) releases Q4 delivery results, breaks another record

Tesla (TSLA) has released its Q4 2023, and subsequently, full-year 2023, delivery results, and the automaker has broken another delivery...

electrek.co

2 million out of 340 million , you Crack me up.polly

 

[glhs837]

2 million out of 340 million , you Crack me up.polly

See, you tell me things are not ready for all EVs, but then mock things as not increasing faster. As long as the numbers keep increasing, thats all that really matters.

 

[phreddyp]

See, you tell me things are not ready for all EVs, but then mock things as not increasing faster. As long as the numbers keep increasing, thats all that really matters.

No, I mock you because once intelligent folk realize that straight EVs have almost zero trade in value many will ask themselves how could I have been so stupid.

 

[glhs837]

No, I mock you because once intelligent folk realize that straight EVs have almost zero trade in value many will ask themselves how could I have been so stupid.

Big difference between almost zero and lower. Used prices being normal vs inflated isn't a huge hit. And were not talking about trade value, but increasing production numbers in the face of the chicken little attitude you have, which is more hope than fact based on your part

 

[phreddyp]

Big difference between almost zero and lower. Used prices being normal vs inflated isn't a huge hit. And were not talking about trade value, but increasing production numbers in the face of the chicken little attitude you have, which is more hope than fact based on your part

Not hard to increase production percentage when you start from zero. You are not even dealing with a mature market yet! When they get there in about another 5 to 10 years then you can start crowing or crying whichever way it turns out. So far the cons out weight the pros from what I read. The only pro you got right now is the ease of home charging.

 

[Kyle]

I'm eagerly awaiting the bloom of this "All Electric" society where the cars are electric, appliances electric, public trans is electric....

Then one day an overload or EMP and .... Poof.

Everything stops from the "Deliberately Created" single point of failure.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Wifes 2015 Jeep a still bit better than the 2020 BMW, but just a bit, although the BMW offers a ton more information about the vehicle.

I rent a lot of cars, took about 15 trips this last year. And generally speaking the systems are just horrible. Give me a row of "quick broad selections" along the bottom broken into very easy areas. "Climate", "Vehicle", "Entertainment", and a couple others. Inside those, give me the stuff I need most often weighted towards the top.

But things I need all the time, I need that stuff resident all the time. Fan speed, left and right temp controls. Seat heaters or coolers, although if it remembers the setting and on/off is only one level down, that's okay, since I think most people leave them set for the season. So when you think about what things you actually use all the time, its not a long list.

Rented a Subaru Outback, holy hell, just getting the radio/sirius/android auto to play well was a bitch.

This is a bit long, but shows all the details of the Tesla interface. ONe nice thing is that they let you add or remove things from the quick access bar on the bottom.

I had a jeep compass once, the car was a huge piece of crap, but I did like the instrumentation and infotainment in it.

 

[OccamsRazor]

I had a jeep compass once, the car was a huge piece of crap, but I did like the instrumentation and infotainment in it.

I was looking around the lot at Jeep Grand Cherokees recently. Was amazed that the electric version was about $10-12K MORE than the ICE version. Guess that's where the rebate goes LOL

 

[glhs837]

Not hard to increase production percentage when you start from zero. You are not even dealing with a mature market yet! When they get there in about another 5 to 10 years then you can start crowing or crying whichever way it turns out. So far the cons out weight the pros from what I read. The only pro you got right now is the ease of home charging.

So the far lower cost for "fuel" and far lower maint cost are not benefits? Sure they are.

I'm eagerly awaiting the bloom of this "All Electric" society where the cars are electric, appliances electric, public trans is electric....

Then one day an overload or EMP and .... Poof.

Everything stops from the "Deliberately Created" single point of failure.

Guess what, most modern vehicles are susceptible to EMP. And most gas stations don't have backup generators.

I had a jeep compass once, the car was a huge piece of crap, but I did like the instrumentation and infotainment in it.

Wife 2015 Cherokee has been pretty good for 171K so far. Not flawless, but not bad.

I was looking around the lot at Jeep Grand Cherokees recently. Was amazed that the electric version was about $10-12K MORE than the ICE version. Guess that's where the rebate goes LOL

Because its not really an EV, but rather a hybrid, so you are paying for the entire gas drivetrain and also the battery itself and all the extra crap to integrate that EV stuff into the vehicle. And that rebate is only $3750. Which is silly in a vehicle that gets 14/20MPG and can only go 25 miles on its battery. But lobbyists gonna lobby.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

So the far lower cost for "fuel" and far lower maint cost are not benefits? Sure they are.



Guess what, most modern vehicles are susceptible to EMP. And most gas stations don't have backup generators.



Wife 2015 Cherokee has been pretty good for 171K so far. Not flawless, but not bad.


Because its not really an EV, but rather a hybrid, so you are paying for the entire gas drivetrain and also the battery itself and all the extra crap to integrate that EV stuff into the vehicle. And that rebate is only $3750. Which is silly in a vehicle that gets 14/20MPG and can only go 25 miles on its battery. But lobbyists gonna lobby.

The Cherokee is, or at least was a much better vehicle than the Compass.

That 25 miles electric range would effectively be an EV for a lot of people. Toyota can make a regular hybrid for practically the same cost as an ICE only. My model was only $800 sticker higher than the ICE only and it gained AWD, alloy rims and dual zone climate control over the same trim level ICE.

 

[phreddyp]

So the far lower cost for "fuel" and far lower maint cost are not benefits? Sure they are.



Guess what, most modern vehicles are susceptible to EMP. And most gas stations don't have backup generators.



Wife 2015 Cherokee has been pretty good for 171K so far. Not flawless, but not bad.


Because its not really an EV, but rather a hybrid, so you are paying for the entire gas drivetrain and also the battery itself and all the extra crap to integrate that EV stuff into the vehicle. And that rebate is only $3750. Which is silly in a vehicle that gets 14/20MPG and can only go 25 miles on its battery. But lobbyists gonna lobby.

Lower cost for fuel is only when charging at home, it's only a matter of time before the government takes their percentage.
Maintenance costs are not fully appreciated yet, don't kid yourself! Figure in a $10000 battery after about 5 or 6 years see what that does to your cost figure. If your trade or sell after that number of years without a new battery, you are going to take an even bigger hit to your bottom line. Cherry picking only works it you leave these costs OUT of the equation.

 

[Kyle]

The more demand on electric, the higher the price is gonna go.

It's not exempt from basic supply and demand.

 

[glhs837]

Lower cost for fuel is only when charging at home, it's only a matter of time before the government takes their percentage.
Maintenance costs are not fully appreciated yet, don't kid yourself! Figure in a $10000 battery after about 5 or 6 years see what that does to your cost figure. If your trade or sell after that number of years without a new battery, you are going to take an even bigger hit to your bottom line. Cherry picking only works it you leave these costs OUT of the equation.

1. So the lower fuel cost is only applicable for %90 of the times you fill up or more for most folks. And they will. But gas price fluctate as well.

2. 5-6 years? I think that's a bit pessimistic. Early Model S's had issues with packs, the newer ones should last quite a bit longer. Think closer to 10 or 12, if not longer. And pack prices drop as scale occurs.

3. So what are we calling a vehicle lifespan, for the sake of argument? Years, or miles? Using the Honda as the yardstick, looking for ones over 200K on autotrader within a 200 mile radius from here, we only find 165 of all kinds. Once you get old enough, and then used packs from crashed cars get to be an options, as do repaired packs from third party vendors. Nobody buys a motor from GM for a 2020 vehicle. So, if the batteries last 200-300K, are you really gonna ding them after that?

Autotrader - page unavailable

 

[glhs837]

The Cherokee is, or at least was a much better vehicle than the Compass.

That 25 miles electric range would effectively be an EV for a lot of people. Toyota can make a regular hybrid for practically the same cost as an ICE only. My model was only $800 sticker higher than the ICE only and it gained AWD, alloy rims and dual zone climate control over the same trim level ICE.

Yep, this is the last year they are making them. I've done the following

1. Evap canister/purge valve assembly. ($30 myself, they wanted like $200)
2. Oil filter housing replacement and belt ($300 in parts, they wanted $800)
3. CV Axles ($600 including $350 for parts, local guy, they wanted $1200)
4. Brakes myself twice, pads and rotors both times ($250 parts each time myself, they would have charged over $1000)
5. Getting ready to do both valve cover gaskets ($75 in parts, Dodge wants $2k, since according to the book you gotta drain and refill the AC and coolant)

So about 4K in maint costs done through the dealer in 170K.

Toyota has the hybrid thing down.

 

[phreddyp]

1. So the lower fuel cost is only applicable for %90 of the times you fill up or more for most folks. And they will. But gas price fluctate as well.

2. 5-6 years? I think that's a bit pessimistic. Early Model S's had issues with packs, the newer ones should last quite a bit longer. Think closer to 10 or 12, if not longer. And pack prices drop as scale occurs.

3. So what are we calling a vehicle lifespan, for the sake of argument? Years, or miles? Using the Honda as the yardstick, looking for ones over 200K on autotrader within a 200 mile radius from here, we only find 165 of all kinds. Once you get old enough, and then used packs from crashed cars get to be an options, as do repaired packs from third party vendors. Nobody buys a motor from GM for a 2020 vehicle. So, if the batteries last 200-300K, are you really gonna ding them after that?

Autotrader - page unavailable

1. Like I said it's only a matter of time before charging costs will be adjusted for EVs with some kid of tax from the Federal, State and Local governments. This is America boss, they are NOT going to allow EVs to get away without some kind of road tax, now you can deny it all you want!

2. 5 or 6 years yes I think that is being reasonable, most people don't replace their vehicles because they are worn out, they replace them because they are tired of them. With an ICE vehicle after 5 or 6 years you still get about the same MPG as you did when the vehicle was new. With EVs you should lose about 25% to 30% reduction in range and that is if you took the time to charge them correctly and stay away for the fast charges and only charge to about 90% which of course lowers the driving range again.

3. Vehicle lifespan is a tough one.
For someone who is a gearhead the whole vehicle could be trashed but still able to be driven because they are capable of keeping it on the road so miles are not the same for them. For some people mileage means everything, for others its how old the vehicle is, for others its how much keeping it on the road is going to cost, for others it I've had this thing forever the ashtrays are full I want a new ride.

4. Maybe we are thinking about this wrong. If say you took an ICE and an EV the ICE has a 10 gallon fuel tank and get 100 miles to the tank full the EV gets 100 miles to the full charge but loses 5% in range per year or 30% after 6 years after 10 years you would lose 50% in range. Now after 10 years you install a new 5 gallon fuel tank in the ICE which reflects a 50% loss of range. Now they are equal in range, do you think that people would be in line to buy either of these vehicles in the used car market? I certainly don't, therefor EVs have a distinct disadvantage when you are in the used car market and pricing should reflect this.