Electric Car News

[SamSpade]

Way to miss the entire point.

I don't think I did, but maybe you were intending to discuss something else. MY point has been, that while EVs seem to need support from the government - even a little COMPULSION (as in, sorry car manufacturers but all cars after X point in time will have to be EV) - oil didn't need it to get off its feet.

If oil was and is so great (and I agree it's pretty good) why does it NEED to be so heavily subsidized? Why do I need to pay taxes so that your F350 gets cheaper fuel?

The short answer is - I don't know - but I'll explain -

I'd say that might be an exaggeration - the way oil companies make money is not as simple as how much it cost at the pump. I know that sounds weird, but most oil companies have but a fraction of the branded stations out there - retail gas can, more or less buy from anyone. They don't make a lot on overhead, but they aren't constrained by buying American gas, either.

That said, with federal taxes on the gas products - gasoline, diesel, jet fuel - the government subsidizes about 20 billion and gets back 38 billion.

So why do you give money and then get money? To influence how they operate. That's all I can come up with.

 

[glhs837]

I know what a destination fee is. You have to drive to pickup your Tesla unless you pay extra to have it shipped directly to your house. Would you pay Lexington Park Ford $1500 destination fee and then either pay them another $500 to have the car delivered to your door or drive to Richmond or Norfolk to pick it up (and deal with a second driver or taking a cab or whatever)?

Well, if the vehicle I wanted was at Lexington Park Ford and it cost $500 more to get it to me, then yes. If the dealership that has your vehicle isn't near you, then you are going to either travel or pay. I've done this three times simply because what I or my wife wanted wasn't to be found nearby.

So I flew to Miami for my SRT-4. Then out to Ohio for the Jeep. And more recently up near Philly for her used BMW. Nearest Tesla showroom is Arlington, BTW. Another city center DC and another in Tysons. Part of Tesla's efficiency is not having independent dealers every 15 miles. Those dealers add cost.

 

[glhs837]

Another damn EV that just catches fire.... 19 fires so far. Even when parked and off. Oh wait, that's not an EV.......

Lincoln calls back small crossover for fire risk

Ford is recalling the 2015-2019 Lincoln MKC over a fire risk in the engine bay even when the crossover is parked and turned off.

www.autoblog.com

 

[Gilligan]

Way to miss the entire point. If oil was and is so great (and I agree it's pretty good) why does it NEED to be so heavily subsidized? Why do I need to pay taxes so that your F350 gets cheaper fuel?

Good grief.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drilli...ut-federal-oil-gas-subsidies/?sh=2c00823e6e1c

 

[Gilligan]

Don't leave out farmers or watermen.

Indeed..and farm subsidies really ARE subsidies. Huge ones, too.

 

[Kyle]

Good grief.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drilli...ut-federal-oil-gas-subsidies/?sh=2c00823e6e1c

Welcome to the heretics club.

 

[Gilligan]

My son has decided to sell his Tesla S and buy a cheap small gasoline-powered sedan. The cost charged for electricity in Norway has skyrocketed in the last year and costs three times as much as a year or so ago. And its still climbing. The Norwegian government is handing out assistance funds to help offset the cost of the electricity homes use.

 

[Gilligan]

Welcome to the heretics club.

Is there a secret knock?..a special handshake?...t-shirts?

 

[Kyle]

Is there a secret knock?..a special handshake?...t-shirts?

Will have to work on a T-shirt.

 

[glhs837]

My son has decided to sell his Tesla S and buy a cheap small gasoline-powered sedan. The cost charged for electricity in Norway has skyrocketed in the last year and costs three times as much as a year or so ago. And its still climbing. The Norwegian government is handing out assistance funds to help offset the cost of the electricity homes use.

This sheds some light on the price increases.

Explained: Why Is Electricity So Expensive In Norway Right Now?

If you live in Norway, you can’t fail to have noticed high electricity prices just lately. Here’s what’s causing the skyrocketing prices in a country so used to cheap electricity. Norway has been hit by

www.lifeinnorway.net

 

[Clem72]

My son has decided to sell his Tesla S and buy a cheap small gasoline-powered sedan. The cost charged for electricity in Norway has skyrocketed in the last year and costs three times as much as a year or so ago. And its still climbing. The Norwegian government is handing out assistance funds to help offset the cost of the electricity homes use.

I cry for the guy buying a tesla s suddenly having to pay electricity rates similar to Hawaii. Try cutting back on your waste usage and be more like your neighbor Greta.

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So I started reading into it a bit more as the first article I looked at mentioned a lady in Sweden with a 500sqft house (130sq meters actually) who uses 2kwh a month electricity. She wasn't being pointed out as an example of waste, but rather how the new rates ($0.34 a KWH) in Sweden were so severe they require the government to step in and pay power bills for the average customers.

My first thought is, I live in a house 6-7 times larger than that with every electronic known to man and tons of large windows and only use 1300-1500kwh on average, maybe a couple hundred more in the winter (using a heatpump, no gas or other supplemental heat).

Then I read some more about the current situation in Norway and it's the same deal. They all use direct electric heating and have the sloppiest habits like leaving everything on when not at home (even when going on vacation), no CFLs or LED lighting, saunas and hot tubs running all day.

These are the vaunted environmental Nords who treasure the earth so much and have a low carbon footprint? They are actually incredibly wasteful and are only being propped up by natural energy sources (geothermal/hydro). Stick any one of them in most other countries and they would be the worst offenders.

Maybe they need to practice what they preach and invest in insulation, heat pumps, and not turning the thermostat up to 85 in winter.

 

[Kinnakeet]

Well, if the vehicle I wanted was at Lexington Park Ford and it cost $500 more to get it to me, then yes. If the dealership that has your vehicle isn't near you, then you are going to either travel or pay. I've done this three times simply because what I or my wife wanted wasn't to be found nearby.

So I flew to Miami for my SRT-4. Then out to Ohio for the Jeep. And more recently up near Philly for her used BMW. Nearest Tesla showroom is Arlington, BTW. Another city center DC and another in Tysons. Part of Tesla's efficiency is not having independent dealers every 15 miles. Those dealers add cost.

You bought a dodge dart

 

[glhs837]

You bought a dodge dart

?

Nope, it was a Neon And an incredibly fun one. Turns out adding suspension and well over 250whp and 280wtq makes a 3200lb vehicle whose chassis was designed specifically to run SCCA courses well is a lot of fun. 18psi and about 320whp are a hoot if you go that far like I did. Here's what I had had the end. Total was about 27K including the Stage kits. I didn't add the suspension bits, as I sold it for the SRT-8 when that became available.

Dodge Neon SRT4 Stage 3 - Road Test & Review - Automobile Magazine

One might think that the 230-hp Dodge (Neon) SRT4 pushes the power envelope for front-wheel-drive cars. One would be about 125-hp wrong. We drive a Stage 3 SRT4 with a 50% horsepower boost and live to tell about it--and so does the car.

www.motortrend.com

 

[Gilligan]

Maybe they need to practice what they preach and invest in insulation, heat pumps, and not turning the thermostat up to 85 in winter.

Actually, their home building standards and quality generally exceeds what we typically have in the US. Very high requirements for energy efficiency too. Unlike in the UK, for example, where similar stratospheric electric cost increases are wiping people out financially and where, unlike Norway, the government does not have a massive savings account to draw from to provide subsidies to offset the cost increases.

The lack of any real power distribution infrastructure running north-south has caused some headaches; everything has been based on the local distribution from each of their many, many hydroelectric generation stations.

Everything is subsidized in Norway, it seems like..including even their incredible daycare system. I just picked my grandkids up from theirs...costs my son $300/month for the two kids and they spend a lot of time at the farm next door and even the beach just at the bottom of the hill, weather permitting. Son is currently halfway through the second 3-month child rearing leave period. He gets 6 months total time off for a new kiddie and his wife does too.

 

[Gilligan]

I cry for the guy buying a tesla s suddenly having to pay electricity rates similar to Hawaii. Try cutting back on your waste usage and be more like your neighbor Greta.

Nah. And he's still keeping the wife's big SUV EV. ;-)

Son's one big cutback is using drying racks for the laundry instead of the electric clothes dryer.

BTW...do you realize why its cheaper to buy a Tesla S here than a Toyota Corolla gasoline car?

 

[Clem72]

Actually, their home building standards and quality generally exceeds what we typically have in the US. Very high requirements for energy efficiency too. Unlike in the UK, for example, where similar stratospheric electric cost increases are wiping people out financially and where, unlike Norway, the government does not have a massive savings account to draw from to provide subsidies to offset the cost increases.

In Norway, average household electricity consumption is 16,000 kWh per year, and the average price was NOK 1.1 per kWh in 2013.

According to the Swedish Consumer Energy Markets Bureau, a single-family household heated using direct electricity consumes approximately 20,000 kWh/yea

In 2021, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,632 kilowatthours (kWh)

Norwegian houses vary in size, style and layout. Bungalow types are very rare, so expect 2 or 3 floors. A normal size of a 4 bedroom house with 2 baths is 200 sqm.
The size of the average dwelling in multi-dwelling buildings is 68 square metres, while the size of the average one- or two-dwelling building is 122 square metres.
The median size of homes across the United States is 2,014 square feet (615 square meters).

So what I am reading is that they have houses on average 1/4 to 1/3 the size of US houses, but use 1.5 to 2x as much electricity. For a back-of-the-napkin ratio of about 4.5 to 8 times more energy per square meter of home.

I don't doubt their building standards are higher than the US, we build stuff just strong enough not to blow over in a stiff wind. But they don't appear to be more energy efficient and they certainly aren't using energy efficient heating methods.

And it can't be all chalked up to differences in temperature, my quick googling shows we have 6 or 7 (depending on which set of numbers you use) states with colder winter and total colder year round temps than Norway (but this shouldn't matter if they have that super great insulation in their building standards).

 

[Gilligan]

n 2021, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,632 kilowatthours (kWh)

HUGE parts of US are in temperate zones that Norway has nothing like. I'm sure the need for AC probably makes up for some of the difference thogh. But the largest factor explaining any difference is the remarkably high standard of living overall in Norway. They are burning up the watts supporting a standard of living that exceeds that of most countries...including the US. And they are used to doing that.

What they will do that we cannot: The government will build more hydro plants, add distribution infrastructure, and keep adding wind and tide power. They will pay for it from existing national trust fund and the cost will be chump change to them.

 

[Clem72]

Nah. And he's still keeping the wife's big SUV EV. ;-)

Son's one big cutback is using drying racks for the laundry instead of the electric clothes dryer.

BTW...do you realize why its cheaper to buy a Tesla S here than a Toyota Corolla gasoline car?

I understand they have huge taxes on gas/diesel non commercial use vehicles there and that a Tesla is probably cheaper than a Corolla. But it's still a 90-120k car, so he's obviously not hurting for money.

 

[Gilligan]

I understand they have huge taxes on gas/diesel non commercial use vehicles there and that a Tesla is probably cheaper than a Corolla. But it's still a 90-120k car, so he's obviously not hurting for money.

Considering the remarkable number of Telsas sold and on the road in Norway, very few Norwegians are hurting for money. ;-)

 

[Clem72]

Considering the remarkable number of Telsas sold and on the road in Norway, very few Norwegians are hurting for money. ;-)

Not really the point. The point is that those scandenavian types want to march about carbon use and energy bullshet advocating others use less energy when we already do... But I get it, you don't care about being a hypocrite and you love Norway. If you love it so much, why don't you marry it? (Norway is second highest behind Denmark on the LGBTQIA++++ acceptance lists, so they might let you identify as a country and marry it)