Environmentalist Opposes Affordable Housing

[Oz]

Mrs Whitbeck,

Thanks for responding. I wish I had more time right this minute, but I'll be back this evening...

Here is how I see it. Part of your campaign platform was based on the lack of affordable housing. Now, you have filed a lawsuit to stop the development of Lexington Park Apartments because you are interpreting the Zoning Ordinance differently than our professional County Attorney, and the county's professional planner who basically created the Zoning Ordinance.
More specifically, you disagree that the concept plan can be approved before adequate public facilities are studied.

The County Attorney says that no developer would spend the money to pursue a project, creating a site plan to get the adequate public facilities studied, unless the concept is approved first. The concept plan approval basically says that yes, this building fits into the zoning map, at this place, for this use. So go ahead and continue to do a site plan and come back to us once you find out if the site will support what you want to do, and we'll see if there are enough school seats and roads.

And Kain, you're right. I'm disappointed that I wasn't able to pop in last night for the exchange. As much as I disagree with Mrs Whitbeck, I will say that I have always enjoyed and respected her passion and integrity. It doesn't surprise me that someone directed her to these boards, and she dived right in!

 

[demsformd]

Mrs. Whitbeck, thank you for coming here to share your views. Now I am incredibly skeptical of your position on the affordable housing complexes that are being built. I understand the overcrowding problem but isn't there a more practical solution than halting it such as redistricting the schools? I too am a liberal and loyal Democrat (Democrap as some these people here say) but I cannot understand what your position here is. From when I explored your candidacy last election until now, I can only think of you as being a strong advocate of more and more regulation. I just don't understand that. But I am open to discussion here and I am probably the most likely person here to agree with you. So sell your postion and tell me what some alternatives are to this development.

 

[demsformd]

Well I have done some outside research and the such but I am not certain if the stopping of the developments would be a necessary endeavor for the county. This mainly comes from personal experience. My oldest sons looked into living here in St. Mary's County after they graduated college in 1999 and 2000. But they could not find suitable housing for them...Their options were the small number of individual apartments that are mainly occuppied by white trash and the such or $200,000 homes that they just could not afford. There is nothing here to meet the needs of the middle class. We have housing here for two types of people, the rich and the poor. What about that forgotten middle class?

What else can we do to help people find suitable homes?

 

[Heretic]

I have got to agree with demsformd on the housing issue. I got out of grad school and got a good paying job here and almost #### myself when I was looking for a place to live. The rent is double here what it was where I went to college (and in college towns rent is usually a bit high). Now 3 years later I still feel as if I can not afford a house in the area.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by demsformd
Their options were the small number of individual apartments that are mainly occuppied by white trash

While the availability of affordable and suitable housing in the area is an issue, this characterization is totally reprehensible. From a person claiming to be of the inclusive party, some of your thoughts and comments are as, if not more, bigoted then anyone’s that I have ever read.

Not all people of limited financial means are trash, regardless of the color of their skin.

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
Hello Oz,
The reason the law suit was filed is that the schools are overcrowded, and overcrowding affects chidren's learning. Did you see Sunday's Washington Post? Wildewood is proposing 358 new apartments. The schools that will serve that project are also overcrowded. Wildewood is not covered by the adequate facilities ordinance, so those apartments will get built whether they overcrowd the schools or not. We need to build enough schools so our children can get a good education.
If trying to protect children makes me ultra liberal, then every mother in St. Mary's County is ultra liberal.
Regards.
Clare

Wildewood wasn't part of the lawsuit outlined in the Post Extra. How does that overcrowding that you mention effect Lexington Park Apartments or the First Colony development?

Trying to protect children does not make you liberal. But I don't think it's fair to disguise your political motives and philosophy as protecting children. The quality of education has more to do with the materials, teachers and parents than the size of the class as dictated by powerful teachers unions, but that's another discussion.

From reading the article and your messages here, I get two distinct motives for the lawsuit. One is that you want to save the children, and secondly you want to save the developers "hundreds of thousands" of dollars. Both are statements that pander to the uninformed. I don't believe either one is a reason for filing suit against the county over procedure.

You say that we need housing for all income ranges, but you file a lawsuit to stop housing development. Both developments are located in development districts. So now we have people developing the areas that the zoning ordinance directs them to.

I'm sure you've heard Dr. Richardson say that the schools are built to need. You attend more meetings than I do and I've heard those words from her. So, if we stop development, we won't need schools. And if we don't have seats in school, we can't build more homes.

The county doesn't need one more lawsuit. Defending this is a frivelous waste of county resources that promise to be thin over the coming years. I think it's irresponsible to litigate over procedure because you think that adequate public facilities must be studied now, and our county attorney and planner think it comes later in the process. Either way, the site plan must meet those standards, now or later and before they turn any dirt or pour any footers.

 

[Biscuit]

Originally posted by demsformd
small number of individual apartments that are mainly occuppied by white trash

You know you are probably just a few paychecks and a few bad breaks away from getting that label your self. You should watch how you label people that you don't know.

God has a way of putting it on somebody that thinks they are so far above others.

But don't worry, I am sure we can scrounge a box up for you when the time comes.

Typical Democratic View! I am better and I will tell you ignorant people how to live!

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Biscuit

Typical Democratic View! I am better and I will tell you ignorant people how to live!

Obviously you guys are not listening!

It is a big difference between not having financial security, and being white trash. Poor is a money issue, white trash is a representation of a way of life. Poor people are always looking for a way to "espcape" from it, white trash are looking for ways to stay.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by SmallTown
Obviously you guys are not listening!

It is a big difference between not having financial security, and being white trash. Poor is a money issue, white trash is a representation of a way of life. Poor people are always looking for a way to "espcape" from it, white trash are looking for ways to stay.

Listening to what, the clicks of the keyboard?

People that live in what low rent housing we have around here are not all trash. It might simpy be that is all they can afford. And financial status has nothing to do with how trashy one can be, just look at our last President and you will see someone that fits in to the trash category.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Ken King
Listening to what, the clicks of the keyboard?

People that live in what low rent housing we have around here are not all trash. It might simpy be that is all they can afford. And financial status has nothing to do with how trashy one can be, just look at our last President and you will see someone that fits in to the trash category.

At least someone gets it.

 

[demsformd]

Originally posted by Ken King
While the availability of affordable and suitable housing in the area is an issue, this characterization is totally reprehensible. From a person claiming to be of the inclusive party, some of your thoughts and comments are as, if not more, bigoted then anyone’s that I have ever read.

Not all people of limited financial means are trash, regardless of the color of their skin.

Ok, Ken, you go look at these places and see people smoking pot on the front porch and mothers yelling at their children incessantly. You go obseve these people and tell me if you would wanna live there.

You are right, not all people of limited financial means are trash. But these people were that I saw while looking for apartments for my son were trash. There was one lovely place that I was able to find that was sadly already fully occupied.

So, Ken, are you telling me that the GOP is the inclusive party? I would have to differ with you on that one.

 

[kelley]

As a registered Democrat, but a true independent, I view the GOP as the less diverse party but not necessarily because they want it that way. Minorities just do not accept the message of the GOP ever since the Democrats passed the Voting Rights and Civil Rights Act of the 1960s.

Republicans also use token blacks much more than the Democrats and since the reduced number of blacks in the GOP, any black will look like a token, especially when he or she is paraded in front of the cameras.

As for white trash, I think the reason that Dems doesn't like them is because they usually vote GOP.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by kelley

As for white trash, I think the reason that Dems doesn't like them is because they usually vote GOP.

Not quite sure how to respond to that. Is that supposed to a plus for the republicans, or a negative?

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by demsformd
Ok, Ken, you go look at these places and see people smoking pot on the front porch and mothers yelling at their children incessantly. You go obseve these people and tell me if you would wanna live there.

You are right, not all people of limited financial means are trash. But these people were that I saw while looking for apartments for my son were trash. There was one lovely place that I was able to find that was sadly already fully occupied.

So, Ken, are you telling me that the GOP is the inclusive party? I would have to differ with you on that one.

Which places? Personally, during some of my earlier days, I have had to live in not so nice an environment, but it was all I could afford. Did I like it? Hell no. Though my family wasn’t as you described. Neither were my neighbors. Do I think that there are some trashy folk out there? Sure, but just not everyone that finds themselves in this type of situation.

I have also been involved in many Christmas in April projects over the years and the majority of the folk I have assisted in improving their homes and lives aren’t trash either. Though many people I know have called them such, for which they to were scolded by me. They are just lacking financial ability to get anything better. Not placing any blame or fault upon anyone and definitely not lumping them all into the same bucket as you did.

I was more incensed by your outlandish generalization as the proclaimed Democrat here on these pages. Do I think the GOP is an inclusive party? Nope, sure don’t. But they don’t make that rant every time they get a chance either as the Democrats like to do. I think that neither of the parties are inclusive, that would be self-defeating of their collective agenda to divide the nation into two distinct groups.

 

[demsformd]

Ken, I did not mean to lump all these people together. It is just that during my experience looking for affordable housing here that many of the people are very much akin to white trash. I am sorry that you misinterpreted the way that I said it...but if you were to see these people, you would not want your children living in that same environment.

 

[Oz]

Ken,

I pretty much just ignored DFM's racist comments... I figured that his statement speaks for itself.

 

[Ken King]

Dems,

Trust me, I know some in many of those locations are the scum of life. The fact that there are so few low-income housing complexes seems to force a concentration of this type into those that do exist. But I also know many that have been left with no other option than to live in these areas.

Speaking in absolutes will usually inspire an argument from me as I have been and know exceptions to generalizations such as you made. That was my point and at this time I think we can put this disagreement to bed. I think you understand my point and I certainly concede that many people in this world fit into the trash category regardless of their financial ability or color of their skin.

 

[demsformd]

Yup, I am racist against my own race. Just like all Democrats, I hate everybody.

 

[demsformd]

Originally posted by Ken King
Dems,

Trust me, I know some in many of those locations are the scum of life. The fact that there are so few low-income housing complexes seems to force a concentration of this type into those that do exist. But I also know many that have been left with no other option than to live in these areas.

Speaking in absolutes will usually inspire an argument from me as I have been and know exceptions to generalizations such as you made. That was my point and at this time I think we can put this disagreement to bed. I think you understand my point and I certainly concede that many people in this world fit into the trash category regardless of their financial ability or color of their skin.

Good call, Ken...argument over.

 

[Oz]

Did you guys run off Mrs Whitbeck?

I thought I'd get my questions answered, and then this thread got off on a tangent, and we haven't heard from her yet!