Environmentalist Opposes Affordable Housing

[Clare Whitbeck]

Originally posted by Oz
[

The "over $300" was actually stated by one of our Commissioners.

[/B]

Oz, Oz. With all the time you have been in this community, you haven't yet learned not to trust a Commissioner? We have one right now who simply doesn't seem to care if he changes facts. He must be the one who gave you that number.
Regards,
Clare

 

[Frostillicus]

When I was in elementary school we were assigned numbers by class. I was number 43 almost every year, and there were always kids behind me. You gotta accept the fact that some families just don't value education, and some children are just uneducatable. And this is a good thing, the world needs clods to service the gods.

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
Oz, Oz. With all the time you have been in this community, you haven't yet learned not to trust a Commissioner? We have one right now who simply doesn't seem to care if he changes facts. He must be the one who gave you that number.
Regards,
Clare

The truth is in the numbers I posted above, and they validate the $300 that was stated.

We actually have the best Commissioner Board since I've been interested, going back to the Loffler days. And, we have the first true "Leader" as Commissioner President, and he's demonstrating that skill. I don't know which one you're referring to, but I would probably disagree with you. Not to mention that for the first time in my life, I voted for the 5 winning candidates.

My mention of the Ryken vs public schools was simply to recognize the fact that test scores in the PS system will naturally be lower because they must take those students who will drag the "curve" down. However, my main point was that Ryken provides a better value. I wonder what throwing out the bottom 20% of scores, and re-averaging based on more dedicated students, if the public schools would close the gap?

As far as dropout rates rising, as an educator, wouldn't getting the kids out of the classroom, who don't want to be there in the first place, be a good thing for the serious students, and less distraction for the marginal students who could use the extra attention? We need employees at that end of the economy, so maybe if these kids had to go out and get a job they would decide that school is more necessary than they realized?

And by no means am I advocating this. Just presenting a hypothetical for further discussion

And I still disagree that filing a lawsuit to stop affordable housing, and then an appeal, is the best way to increase available affordable housing.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
At the Housing Forum last Spring, we learned that there is little demand in St. Mary's County for the $250,000 homes presently being built

Please help me understand why a builder would go to the expense of building a $250,000 home if no one wants to buy it?

Demand is not the motivator. Profit is.

Also please help me understand how there would be no profit if there was such a great demand?

Clare, in true liberal fashion, you contradicted yourself about vouchers and invalidated your point:

I'm back to saying that the quality of a child's education should not be based on the parent's income.

But then, I wonder if they would all be eligible to attend Ryken.

Admit you filed that lawsuit to get attention for yourself. There was no other reason for you to do it. You said:

The reason the law suit was filed is that the schools are overcrowded, and overcrowding affects children's learning.

What on Earth does that have to do with affordable housing? And why would you waste the County's resources on a frivolous lawsuit like that?

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Please help me understand why a builder would go to the expense of building a $250,000 home if no one wants to buy it?
Also please help me understand how there would be no profit if there was such a great demand?

She's slightly correct. The greatest demand for housing in St. Mary's lies in the $100-$130K range, and in the over $300K range. We've watched Sleuth try to find a decent home in the first price range, and he's having a heck of a time finding a home that isn't old and in need of major repairs. On the either end of the spectrum, finding a piece of land and building a home isn't going to happen in St. Mary's.

But the development that her lawsuit seeks to block, delay, stop, or whatever they're thinking, is apartment housing in the $500-$1000/month range or less for subsidized tenants, which is sorely needed in St. Mary's. The county needs to clear out Lexington Manor, and those folks don't have affordable places to relocate to.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Please help me understand why a builder would go to the expense of building a $250,000 home if no one wants to buy it?
Also please help me understand how there would be no profit if there was such a great demand?

Basically, the builders are dictating what the people buy. Since there is such a demand, they are able to do it, but not without negative impacts. A typical scenario is this. You like in a small three bedroom house. This has been fine for the last few years, but you are about to have another kid and need the extra space. You have a few requirements... at least 4 bedrooms, 2 car garage, a yard for the kids to play in. And you want it for under 200K... You shop and shop and can't find anything that meets your needs. You finally go to a new development and see the house that meets your needs, but it is 260K. You like the house, and you haven't food anything else, and if you use their "prefered" lender, you are guarenteed to get approved for the mortgage. So people stretch themselves thin just to make a house payment.

This is EXACTLY how a developer can build houses in a price range where there isn't such a high demand. They create the "demand" themselves.

 

[Clare Whitbeck]

Congratulations Oz, you voted for 5 winning candidates for the first time. Everyone should have that experience once in a while. I just wish you had chosen more truthful and open candidates.
The Commissioner I am talking about accused his opponent of "violating the ethics ordinance". That was an out an out lie, but people voted for him anyway. After being elected, he joined the others in the back room to decide to reorganize the government - something I believe the Open Meetings Law won't permit. It's set for a hearing on September 10, so we'll see. He also talked about 80% of the complaints at the Permits and Inspections office being frivolous, when the government's reply to a public information request states there is no record of any frivolous complaints. Just because you voted for them doesn't make them great commissioners.
Another Commissioner announced that he didn't know anything about the subject he was voting on, then proceded to vote anyway. All of these commissioners are probably great drinking or fishing buddies, but we need more knowlegable government than some of them have produced to date.
On the topic of housing, it should be becoming obvious that there is a built in conflict between managed growth and affordable housing. Managed growth produces an attractive community that adds to the value of all the homes in it, even older homes. Affordable housing becomes less affordable when that happens. I have chosen to work on affordable housing because I know that people need it, and I don't believe the way to get it is to let growth proceed any old way. Examples? Compare Calvert and Charles Counties. Calvert is, by and large, beautiful. Charles?
There is also a conflict between housing availability and school availabilty. To keep the Base in our community, we need both.
I am still waiting to get the web site addresses so I can see the numbers you cited. For now, let's say that if you are going to use a 2003 number for one county, you should use $7,137, the St. Mary's Cost per pupil for 2003. And perhaps you should compare 2003 for all counties. That changes things a bit. I didn't see a number on the St. Mary's web site for 2004, so I'm asking how you got it. Did it come from the same commissioner? I hope you will excuse me if I would rather have the per pupil cost from the school system's staff.
Regards,
Clare

 

[vraiblonde]

I hear what you're saying, Clare - the light finally came on. And I apologize for getting snippy with you earlier.

I think the problem with the St. Mary's County government is that they're small town people who are facing city-type issues. It was that way with the last set of Commissioners, too. Ya'll certainly know a heck of a lot more about it than I do, but it seems that they're facing typical city-type growth management issues.

There seems to be no simple solution. There's a lot of undeveloped land in the county - plenty of room for affordable housing. Plenty of room to make a working road system. But nobody seems to want to do it. Why not?

I thought First Colony was a brilliant idea - much better than those developments that crop up with a zillion houses all crammed together and that's it. Yet I remember the opposition they faced. Why?

We all knew years ago that there was going to be a population explosion because of the base relocations. Why weren't the roads upgraded then? Why weren't schools planned for? Why didn't the Commissioners put together a housing plan? Did they just not realize what that many new people meant to the area's resources?

Urban development is interesting - how to cram too many people into too small of a space.

 

[Clare Whitbeck]

Whoa, Oz.
The rents at Lexington Park Apartments are expected to begin at $845 a month. I don't know if that's a studio or a one bedroom. (Go to the County web site and look up the Planning Commission minutes for December 9, 2002. ) The rents at First Colony (Settlers Landing) are expected to beginat about $1,000 a month. I have a friend who has a Housing Choice Voucher for a two bedroom apartment. The highest rent her apartment can have is $795/month. That must include utilities. Housing Choice Vouchers are limited to places at or below the Fair Market Rental for one's community as established by the Department of Housing and Urban Development. They cannot be used on properties whose rent is above that rental, even if the holder of the voucher would like to make up the difference. The program has two purposes: 1) Find homes for people whose income is so low they can't afford a place to live. 2. Find tenants for buildings that are outdated and otherwise might not have tenants.
It is becoming obvious that your idea of low income and mine are worlds apart. You are thinking of low income as a family that makes $36,000 a year (about the minimum it takes to pay $12,000 a year for a place to live and utilities.) I am thinking of low income as a family with less than $20,000 a year. (That's a little less than $10 an hour on a standard 2,060 hour work year, a higher rate than Wal-Mart pays its lower level employees.) Before you decide that such people are just slackers, take a good look at the pay scale for the Navy's enlisted people.
I don't feel that I have held up a low income development. If it were a low income development, it should be able to get an exemption as replacement for Lexington Manor and Great Mills Apartments, low income housing which is to be destroyed. And even if it were low income housing, the children still deserve a decent chance at an education, not a overcrowded building where "anything goes". Example? I have another friend who took her daughter out of school to go to Utah where the girl's grandfather was dying. Mom called the school couselor, and told the counselor where the child would be for the next two days. The counselor (at Great Mills High School) was so busy that the counselor forgot to tell the student's teachers why the student was not present. When she returned to school as scheduled, her teachers told her they were going to fail her for skipping school. They can't even take attendance properly at Great Mills. Why should they have to deal with more than 107% of capacity? Indeed, why should the students have to deal with 100% of capacity.
Finally, this may be a surprise to you all, but I don't have to call attention to myself. After the election, people told me they voted for me (about 2,700 did). People already know me and I am continually surprised how many take the time to tell l me to "keep up the good work", whatever that means. Somewhere on this forum someone commented that St. Mary's County is trying to cope with big city problems. I agree with that statement. The trouble is that big city problems require planning and preventive thinking. St. Mary's County has a long way to go to begin preventive thinking. That's what I'm working toward.
Best wishes to all. I'm going out to play.
Clare

 

[Oz]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
Just because you voted for them doesn't make them great commissioners.

I'm going on what I see, and the way things are being run. I finally see leadership working from the top - down.

Our government is being reorganized in a sensible way. Mr. Forrest has the credentials to be the County Admin, and it was a great move to act on that, rather than continue the top-heavy structure. Government became top heavy over recent years. Where did 17 department heads come from? Why did we (basically) have 2 County Administrators? We're down to 11 or 12, and 1 County Admin now, right? If that saves my tax money, that's why we elected these folks.

As for Calvert being beautiful, they have their share of problems as well. The further north you go, the more obvious they are from the road. We're in St. Mary's, and SMC is beautiful too!

As I said, the numbers came from the local BOE's. Go to the State web site, then Education, and click on the Local BOE's. The total budget numbers are available there. Total Budget, divided by enrollment numbers. The one exception was St. Mary's, where I clipped the BOE numbers from the budget, and used the 16,114 enrollment on Dr. Richardson's page. We're now in FY 2004. The only reason I used 2003 for Calvert is because that's all I could find. The 2003 numbers are history. I'd rather see Calvert's 2004 budget, and use that to compare against the other 2. You can twist the numbers around however you like, but the bottom line is that we won't know the cost per pupil until we see who shows up on August 25.

 

[Frostillicus]

So when you say 'affordable housing' what you really mean is 'run down slum'. For a preview see the inside back page of today's Washington Post Metro section. The top right pic is a great example of everything that is wrong with 'affordable housing'.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by Clare Whitbeck
Hello Christy,
I think the topic is flexing, so your comments are certainly not any more off topic than anyone else's.
I hope the school your son is attending is certified. My sister sent her step daughter to a little religious school that taught grades one through eight. Small classes, but teachers weren't certified. When the child arrived at public high school, she was so far behind that she ran away rather than try to catch up. The step daughter was making above average grades in her little private school.
Apples and oranges? I agree with with OZ that private schools have a different student body and more active parents than public schools. It's the parents that make the difference. You made the difference for your son by finding a school that fit his needs. I'm back to saying that the quality of a child's education should not be based on the parent's income.

Claire, my son made A's, B's, and C's in public school, so according to Maryland State standards he was doing just peachy. I got the big wake up when just by an off chance I asked my kid what "vowel" was. He was in 4th grade, and hadn't a clue, never heard of a vowel (there was a slew of other substandard things that would take me days to write about, but that's a simple example of our glorious public school system). He tested at a low 3rd grade level when I put him in private school. He's still behind his peers in the private school, but I imagine he could run circles around many of the kids at his grade level in public school now.

I'll start a new thread to go into my gripes with public schools, so as not to hijack this one completely.