Explain please

[4d2008]

yes .... that was the subject

I thought Evan all mighty made the ark?

 

[Xaquin44]

I thought Evan all mighty made the ark?

heehee

 

[PsyOps]

Arguably, while I find Christians in general to be somewhat intellectually dishonest, it's a coin toss as to who is the greater violator: The fundamentalist, while insistent upon fallacious arguments that self-collapse and uncompromising when it comes to any evidence that conflicts with their worldview, is still on firm ground in being mindnumbingly dedicated to their worldview. The liberal Christians with their cherry picking and some who even go so far as to eviscerate their own belief system by insisting that Hell doesn't exist, or "There are many paths to God and paradise" platitiudes, just comes across as completely disconnected to the very worldview they insist is the truth. Sheesh!

You mean sort of like scientists that believe the universe is collapsing vs. those that believe it's expanding? You mean like scientists that believe all matter is destroyed in a black hole vs. those that believe matter is retained? You mean those scientists that just know for certain that man is causing global warming vs. those that don't: or that global warming is even happening in the first place? Algore did say "the argument is over" on Global warming.

Within the scientific community there is no intellectual honesty unless it is accompanied by federal funding. I happen to believe a cure for cancer was found long ago. But providing this to the public would mean an end to billions of dollars in funding to researchers that have made it their life-long cause. They would be out of a job. That’s the sick part about all of this is so much of it is driven by money. Preachers sucking in unsuspecting followers just to find out it was nothing but extortion. Scientists concocting lengthy computations to wow all of us into believing there are giant black holes out there sucking in entire galaxies. Mouth-pieces conjuring up “chicken little” scare tactics only to find out they are hypocrites making millions off our ignorance.

Those that believe in God, in their core, don’t care about whether all the animals could fit on the ark. They don’t care if it was a literal 7 days or a metaphor. Real believers don’t care if you come into these forums for the purpose of laughing at our beliefs and poke fun at whether mosquitoes made it on the ark and unicorns didn’t.

Fact of the matter is, we are all here… you can’t explain it. Christians can. That bugs the crap out of you non-believers so you have to dredge up nonsense to disclaim it, using creative intellectual arguments as if that’s going to dissuade any of us. I’m sure it makes you feel better when you throw in a “my argument beats yours because it’s more intellectually honest” line, but it changes nothing. It doesn’t change who God is and it doesn’t change any of our minds; on either side of the belief aisle. You’ve proven nothing to me, and I know I will prove nothing to you. You will be compelled to believe what you are compelled to believe. Simple as that.

 

[Xaquin44]

You mean sort of like scientists that believe the universe is collapsing vs. those that believe it's expanding? You mean like scientists that believe all matter is destroyed in a black hole vs. those that believe matter is retained? You mean those scientists that just know for certain that man is causing global warming vs. those that don't: or that global warming is even happening in the first place? Algore did say "the argument is over" on Global warming.

Within the scientific community there is no intellectual honesty unless it is accompanied by federal funding. I happen to believe a cure for cancer was found long ago. But providing this to the public would mean an end to billions of dollars in funding to researchers that have made it their life-long cause. They would be out of a job. That’s the sick part about all of this is so much of it is driven by money. Preachers sucking in unsuspecting followers just to find out it was nothing but extortion. Scientists concocting lengthy computations to wow all of us into believing there are giant black holes out there sucking in entire galaxies. Mouth-pieces conjuring up “chicken little” scare tactics only to find out they are hypocrites making millions off our ignorance.

Those that believe in God, in their core, don’t care about whether all the animals could fit on the ark. They don’t care if it was a literal 7 days or a metaphor. Real believers don’t care if you come into these forums for the purpose of laughing at our beliefs and poke fun at whether mosquitoes made it on the ark and unicorns didn’t.

Fact of the matter is, we are all here… you can’t explain it. Christians can. That bugs the crap out of you non-believers so you have to dredge up nonsense to disclaim it, using creative intellectual arguments as if that’s going to dissuade any of us. I’m sure it makes you feel better when you throw in a “my argument beats yours because it’s more intellectually honest” line, but it changes nothing. It doesn’t change who God is and it doesn’t change any of our minds; on either side of the belief aisle. You’ve proven nothing to me, and I know I will prove nothing to you. You will be compelled to believe what you are compelled to believe. Simple as that.

arguing over the evidence isn't quite the same as cherry picking from something that is supposed to be 'ahem' ---- THE TRVTH

science by nature picks itself apart

 

[PsyOps]

arguing over the evidence isn't quite the same as cherry picking from something that is supposed to be 'ahem' ---- THE TRVTH

science by nature picks itself apart

ahem... what evidence is there that black holes exist? What evidence is there that global warming is caused by man let alone even exists? What evidence is there that the universe is expanding rather than contracting? All these things, including faith in God relies on certain levels of faith.

Having an open enough mind to believe that matter actually remains in tact when sucked into a black hole demands having the same level of open mindedness that there is a God. The trvth becomes a matter of one's perspective right?

 

[Xaquin44]

ahem... what evidence is there that black holes exist? What evidence is there that global warming is caused by man let alone even exists? What evidence is there that the universe is expanding rather than contracting? All these things, including faith in God relies on certain levels of faith.

look it up .... there is plenty of evidence for one and three and some evidence for two. There is also evidence against all three (not so much black holes).

That's the beauty of science. The evidence presented is always immediately picked at to see if it holds up. If it does it does, and if it doesn't, it doesn't. There is no faith in science. that's the whole point.

 

[PsyOps]

look it up .... there is plenty of evidence for one and three and some evidence for two. There is also evidence against all three (not so much black holes).

That's the beauty of science. The evidence presented is always immediately picked at to see if it holds up. If it does it does, and if it doesn't, it doesn't. There is no faith in science. that's the whole point.

There is no evidence in theory. I believe black holes exist because I believe the math is right. I also believe there is a God because I believe billions of believers over several millenia are right. I see no difference in the faith that requires belief in both.

 

[Xaquin44]

There is no evidence in theory. I believe black holes exist because I believe the math is right. I also believe there is a God because I believe billions of believers over several millenia are right. I see no difference in the faith that requires belief in both.

the difference is that correct math doesn't lie, and while millions of believers may not be lying per say, there is no evidence to support their beliefs. Millions of people worshiped Zeus and at the time, none of them believed they were wrong.

Heck, compared to some egyptian and/or roman gods and goddesses, the christian god is just a little kid if you're talking length of worship.

 

[PsyOps]

You believe in God because of Billions of others do? So its a numbers game?

I use the numbers game as a fraction of the evidence that God exists. But I know you folks demand physical evidence. Well, how convenient you demand that which you cannot provide. I demand physical evidence that there was a big bang. I want physical evidence that life was a spontaneous phenomenon. I want physical evidence that black holes exist. I don’t want a bunch of complex math and theories. If you can prove to me physical evidence that life began in any other way than created by God then you have a valid argument.

Are you Catholic? There are more of them than any other Christian belief
Why are you Christian? There are more believers of other faiths than Christiantity.

I am not Catholic. I do not claim a denomination. And I believe you are wrong that there are more other believers of other faiths than Christian. I know you are counting all of the other religions against Christianity. I’ve already seen this typical ploy to falsify the data. This site, and this site should help you out with the data.

 

[Xaquin44]

I don’t want a bunch of complex math and theories.

so you don't want science.

 

[PsyOps]

so you don't want science.

It's a rhetorical argument silly. You demand that which you can't provide. Those that demand science explains our existence can't provide any more evidence than religion. Quite hypocritical.

 

[Xaquin44]

It's a rhetorical argument silly. You demand that which you can't provide. Those that demand science explains our existence can't provide any more evidence than religion. Quite hypocritical.

they can provide thoeries with at least -some- evidence behind them. i.e. the fact that evolution has been documented and does take place is a good one.

 

[PsyOps]

they can provide thoeries with at least -some- evidence behind them. i.e. the fact that evolution has been documented and does take place is a good one.

And there is documented evidence that God and Jesus exists. Okay, so we are even. What proof do you have as to how life came into existence?

 

[Xaquin44]

And there is documented evidence that God and Jesus exists.

bahahahhahaa

nice try.

There is evidence a person named Jesus existed at one point. Everything else falls in the realm of fiction.

Show me where it's documented that god exists.

Keeping in mind that using the bible proves nothing. After all, I could then use any given religious manuscript to prove that that particular god/gods/goddesses/etc. do in fact exist.

 

[PsyOps]

bahahahhahaa

nice try.

There is evidence a person named Jesus existed at one point. Everything else falls in the realm of fiction.

As I’ve written too many times now, you can call all sorts of things that have no real concrete evidence fiction. To believe things like Christ (and all his “miracles”), how life came to be, the big bang, evolution, global warming, black holes… requires a certain level of faith. They are all devoid of any real concrete fact except that which is documented about it. You simple have to BELIEVE the data presented.

Show me where it's documented that god exists.

Keeping in mind that using the bible proves nothing. After all, I could then use any given religious manuscript to prove that that particular god/gods/goddesses/etc. do in fact exist.

The bible aside, the greatest form of documentation is billions and billions of believers over several millennia. There are millions of books written about God. Countless world leaders over thousands of years have subscribed to this belief. Entire empires and kingdoms have been built on it. We haven’t seen all that many states built on evolution.

Darwin’s “The Origin of Species” was written and the age of evolution was born. Thousands of books have been written since that expound on this thinking. Equally there have been books written to call this theory fiction. Do you need to show me where it’s documented (outside of theory) that proves evolution really exists? I don’t demand such ridiculous proof. It’s a losing argument. I am not going to convince you that evolution is fiction any more than you are going to convince me the Jesus we know in the Bible is fiction. Neither have the proof demanded by the other side simply because of belief. You have decided, by whatever reasons, that evolution is valid. I have decided, for whatever reasons, that God and the Christ are real and valid.

My point is not to prove to you that God exists; there is enough out there for you to make your own decision (and you have). My point to is that there is no more proof of all these “scientific” theories than there is proof of God. They both rely on one’s person faith to believe in them. So you are convincing no one.

 

[Xaquin44]

The bible aside, the greatest form of documentation is billions and billions of believers over several millennia. There are millions of books written about God. Countless world leaders over thousands of years have subscribed to this belief. Entire empires and kingdoms have been built on it. We haven’t seen all that many states built on evolution.

this is not proof.

people believed in gods before 'god' .... millions of people in fact. Does that mean they were right?

 

[Xaquin44]

My point is not to prove to you that God exists; there is enough out there for you to make your own decision (and you have). My point to is that there is no more proof of all these “scientific” theories than there is proof of God. They both rely on one’s person faith to believe in them. So you are convincing no one.

there is proof for some (many) scientific theories .... some in fact, have been taken out of the realm of theory and are now presented as fact.

Evolution has been witnessed. All evolution hasn't been witnessed, nor will it ever be. However, logic would favor evolution simply based upon the fact that evolution has been recorded. God, however, has not.

I have no faith in things like gravity .... the existence of various particles .... evolution.

I don't have to have faith because they are fact.

Science =/= faith. I don't understand what is so difficult about that fact to some people.

 

[morningbell]

 

[This_person]

Faith is belief in the absence of Fact.

Science is the belief that research for the evidence of Fact is necessary.

More like science is the research.

Faith is belief that humans and mangos both evolved, if taken far enough back, from sponges. No evidence to support this belief, just a belief.

Faith is saying that there is an electro-chemical way that life came from lifelessness. No evidence to support this belief, it's just a belief.

Science is the manner in which one looks into the mechanism by which a sponge's offspring mutated into both mangos and humans; into the mechanisms by which acids could have miraculously bumped into one another and resulted in organic compounds that spontaneously began to reproduce and mutate. Faith is saying these untested, unproven theories are backed up by any science to date.

 

[PsyOps]

Faith is belief in the absence of Fact.

Science is the belief that research for the evidence of Fact is necessary.

What sort of facts are lacking to prove God doesn't exist, except that He doesn't show himself to you in some physical sort of way. What sort of physical facts do you have to prove there was a big bang? None! What sort of physical proof (facts) do you have that some sort of evolutionary process bred life? None! So yours requires faith too.

The research is not conclusive. There is no evidence; only research and some really nifty math to go with it. The argument to prove, through concrete evidence, fails on both sides of this debate. Both rely on faith.