Gay indoctrination...

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

We should teach about them exactly the same as we do about other political issues. The same as we do about legalizing dope or not. The same as we do about tolerance for people who have sex with corpses or blowup dolls. The same as we do about religious views and which ones are right and which ones are wrong. The same about which race is superior. About why the sea is boiling hot and whether pigs have wings.

*NOTHING*.

This isn't "silencing" them anymore than than say, religions are silenced. Just don't "teach" it to my kids.

...so we have another one in favor of removing the social component of public school.

Let's remove all that Martin Luther King junk. Out with the suffrage movement. So long slavery. Read about the Victorian era at home with the folks. Get your facts about Apartheid on a Dixie cup from your bathroom. Study AID's and other infectious disease's with pop when he gets off work. Mom will tell you all you need to know about the rise and fall of world cultures when you get off the bus.

What else shall we rip out? Or am I missing your point?

 

[Larry Gude]

Personally...

That, honestly makes sense. Now, just give me a voicher to pay for my private school with the funds rightfully set aside for my kids for public school, and I'll be on my way to a school that I can agree with the propaganda it puts out.

Oh, wait, school voichers. That should be a whole new thread!

...I'd go for that. Why not give parents a voucher for each child at the beginning of the year and they can spend it where they like; private, parochial, public, put the change in their pocket, maybe the hell with school all together. After all. How outrageous is it for some school board to tell us what to teach or not teach or kids in the first place?

This year, Frederick County would hand you about $9,500 per kid. That would buy some nice schooling.

 

[SamSpade]

...What else shall we rip out? Or am I missing your point?

Of course you are. I didn't say anything remotely like that. Those things are relevant subjects as history and social studies.

You know, it's possible to teach people *about* a religion without, say, passing judgment on it. You can teach people about Islam or Buddhism or Christianity without telling them which is the "right" one.

You see, this isn't about kids being taught the mechanics of gay sex or the cultural impact of gay men. The point is to teach them that it's ok.

You can teach a kid about lynching or apartheid - would you want someone teaching them that it was ok?

I had enough of teachers when I was in grade school who thought it necessary to deconstruct American heroes and founding fathers and insist they were all a bunch of greedy hypocrites, murderous scoundrels and so forth. SOMEHOW they thought part of their job was to "teach" me that America was built and created by a bunch of bigots, liars and creeps. What happened to just teaching history?

What I'm against is editorializing. I had enough of people who thought teaching the pledge of allegiance was disgraceful propaganda.

 

[SamSpade]

This year, Frederick County would hand you about $9,500 per kid. That would buy some nice schooling.

Vouchers ARE another thread. In major cities where they've been introduced such as Milwaukee, they've been a measurable success - that is, it can be shown that the students are doing better as a result. Ironicaly - it *SAVES* money most of the time, because public schools cost more per pupil than many private schools charge.

 

[Larry Gude]

I'm gonna guess...

Of course you are. I didn't say anything remotely like that. Those things are relevant subjects as history and social studies.

The point is to teach them that it's ok.

...you haven't read the posts of people who are upset about homosexuals?

I'm also gonna guess you didn't bother reading my posts in opposition to the school boards handling of this in the first place and my opposition to events like the Colorado deal where someone promoted kids having sex and using drugs. I'll also guess, as one finally observation, you didn't read my full support for people raising hell over curriculums they disagree with?

Seems to be a pattern with you of late.

Here's some more for you to ignore; gays make up some 10% of the US population. That's almost as much as the black population of this country. I haven't advocated a 'gay' history month. So, I'll ask you the same question;

What is the Samspade approved gay curriculum? Many folks want none.

 

[This_person]

Here's some more for you to ignore; gays make up some 10% of the US population. That's almost as much as the black population of this country. I haven't advocated a 'gay' history month. So, I'll ask you the same question;

What is the Samspade approved gay curriculum? Many folks want none.

Just so you know, that's a made up statistic. It comes from the Kinsey report, that has been widely debunked, because of dishonest sampling. The actual number is more like 1.5%.

...you haven't read the posts of people who are upset about homosexuals?

While it's true that there are a lot of bigots against particular sects of society, and they have the right to be that way as long as they don't discriminate nor harass (like the people bigotted against their belief harass them), the complaint isn't against homosexuals existing. The complaint is the teaching of it as an "acceptable", "respectable" situation. It goes from the facts to "right and wrong" teachings. I've been reading much of this thread fairly closely, and I've noticed that most people against the class are fighting against the concept of teaching homosexuality not as a biological or social fact, but as a social norm that must be "respected". Where the argument comes in is when people who think it should be taught as a norm argue homosexuality is ok, leaving the people against the class to attack homosexuality.

SamSpade said it best when he said:

You see, this isn't about kids being taught the mechanics of gay sex or the cultural impact of gay men. The point is to teach them that it's ok.

 

[This_person]

Fine, I'll be sure to tell human resources to cut you a check directly out of my salary. It's not like I was ever going to be able to buy my own home anyway with what they pay me. You know, if I had known that teaching was going to be one of the most unappreciated jobs out there, I would never have followed my dream and gotten into the field. All I have heard is how teachers have some sick secret agenda to turn kids gay, how we are all a bunch of Godless immoral sinners, and how we have failed kids today when it comes to learning basic skills. I had never even heard of the idea to include homosexuality in the curriculum until I saw the story on this forum, but yet I have been accused of practicing in the "gay arts" and teaching little girls how to be lesbians so I can increase my dating pool. All I did was support my employer and keep an open mind. I have never once said that we should force students to change their beliefs or sit in lessons that are against the teachings of the parents. That's why the class is optional. If it goes to the supreme court and the school board wins, is it going to be so terribly hard to sign a piece of paper so your kid can learn about something else? Heck, I will even spot you the money for the pen if that would help. I just hope that you put as much effort into making sure your child does their schoolwork and gets good grades as you do making sure they don't have homosexual tolerance lessons.

I actually made the comment as a joke (you could tell by the I put with it) as a way of saying "let's move on to another subject, 'cuz nobody's getting anywhere with this one". People thinking YOU personally are trying to do anything with little girls are just being stupid, and you need to learn to ignore that kind of stupidity on a board like this. And not take other people's opinions so personally, or yourself so seriously.

 

[SamSpade]

...you haven't read the posts of people who are upset about homosexuals?

I'm also gonna guess you didn't bother reading my posts in opposition to the school boards handling of this in the first place and my opposition to events like the Colorado deal where someone promoted kids having sex and using drugs. I'll also guess, as one finally observation, you didn't read my full support for people raising hell over curriculums they disagree with?

Seems to be a pattern with you of late. .

Sure did. Here's a thought - people who disagree with YOU are not all in agreement with each other. I don't care one whit about what others are whining about gays in schools. I think schools should teach subjects, not values or ethics or that sort of thing.

Here's some more for you to ignore; gays make up some 10% of the US population. .

Wrong. Dead wrong. Every single legitimate survey has established the falsity of the "one in ten claim". The highest value I've seen in a bona fide survey is 3%, but most are much lower than that.

That's almost as much as the black population of this country. I haven't advocated a 'gay' history month. So, I'll ask you the same question;

What is the Samspade approved gay curriculum? Many folks want none

You mean, the curriculum to teach people ABOUT gays? Who would you like to teach it? Anita Bryant? Or Barney Frank?

What I have said before is that this issue is not about "silencing" anyone, it's about approval.

From what I can see here, and elsewhere, kids leave our schools barely able to SPELL or do simple math. And someone thinks the schools need to teach them about gay people? How important is that? Are they also going to include heteros that engage in anal sex? Why is that so important to include in a school curriculum?

 

[This_person]

...I'd go for that. Why not give parents a voucher Thank you for correcting my spelling, it was a long day yesterday for each child at the beginning of the year and they can spend it where they like; private, parochial, public, put the change in their pocket, maybe the hell with school all together. After all. How outrageous is it for some school board to tell us what to teach or not teach or kids in the first place?

This year, Frederick County would hand you about $9,500 per kid. That would buy some nice schooling.

It's actually quite outrageous for a school board to tell us what to teach or not teach our kids. Any place I've lived, they're elected individuals to uphold the community standards, and if the community doesn't like what's being taught (outside the state or federally required curriculum, which can be handled at those levels), it should change. Optional education is good. Optional education that goes against the community standards is bad.

I wouldn't say the hell with school altogether, but let me use the voucher if you're going to teach outside my standards.

 

[Larry Gude]

I agree 100%...

and if the community doesn't like what's being taught (outside the state or federally required curriculum, which can be handled at those levels), it should change.

...and, at this point, let the hell raising begin. All I am saying is that the state has a clear right to your kids or there'd be no law requiring schooling in the first place along with a whole bunch of other laws and rules personal religion or no.

 

[Larry Gude]

I think you're wrong...

I think schools should teach subjects, not values or ethics or that sort of thing.

...about schools and I'll go a step further; government should be teaching values and ethics as well.

Every single thing government does, and that includes schooling, is ethic and morality based. It just is. Statecraft as Soulcraft. George Will.

 

[Larry Gude]

Well thank God for that...

Wrong. Dead wrong. Every single legitimate survey has established the falsity of the "one in ten claim". The highest value I've seen in a bona fide survey is 3%, but most are much lower than that.

...huh? Problem fixed. Should be no problem voting out folks implementing the gay agenda.

My senior class had 500 in it. That 50 of them are gay or lesbian is not a fact I know, but, is certainly not some stretch in my mind.

 

[This_person]

...and, at this point, let the hell raising begin. All I am saying is that the state has a clear right to your kids or there'd be no law requiring schooling in the first place along with a whole bunch of other laws and rules personal religion or no.

I've always perceived the state's "right" to my kids as protection - they have the right to see that I don't beat/freeze/neglect/etc., my kids. When it comes to morals/ethics/values/etc., that's mine.

 

[Larry Gude]

I know this...

I've always perceived the state's "right" to my kids as protection - they have the right to see that I don't beat/freeze/neglect/etc., my kids. When it comes to morals/ethics/values/etc., that's mine.

...really bothers people, but, no it is not.

Taxes, laws, punishment, zoning, schooling, everything government does does not occur in a vacuum; it is THE face of who we are, what we do and what we believe. The more it steers us to be better citizens, the better. So, the sooner we recognize that, the better.

 

[This_person]

...about schools and I'll go a step further; government should be teaching values and ethics as well.

Every single thing government does, and that includes schooling, is ethic and morality based. It just is.

But, see, that's because it's a government for and of the people. You're stating in a different way what I'm saying about community standards. Just like the bulk of our citizenry is Christian, but the schools shouldn't teach Christianity as the only acceptable religion, the bulk of our citizenry has a comparable set of values and ethics, but that shouldn't be taught either.

 

[Larry Gude]

What does that mean?

What I have said before is that this issue is not about "silencing" anyone, it's about approval.

...approval? If someone doesn't approve of chess players, what does that mean? What if someone doesn't approve of jocks? Preps?

What does that mean?

 

[This_person]

...huh? Problem fixed. Should be no problem voting out folks implementing the gay agenda.

My senior class had 500 in it. That 50 of them are gay or lesbian is not a fact I know, but, is certainly not some stretch in my mind.

Go to a couple of links I sent about where the number comes from, and where the more accurate 1.5% (give or take) comes from. It'll make it easier to believe. They're not some propaganda against gays websites, they're a lot more impartial than that. And, backed up.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yes...

But, see, that's because it's a government for and of the people. You're stating in a different way what I'm saying about community standards. Just like the bulk of our citizenry is Christian, but the schools shouldn't teach Christianity as the only acceptable religion, the bulk of our citizenry has a comparable set of values and ethics, but that shouldn't be taught either.

...and community standards use to approve of slavery, limited women's right, religious exclusion, ethnic exclusion and so on.

Values ARE taught. They will be taught better if we simply acknowledge that fact.

 

[awpitt]

That, honestly makes sense. Now, just give me a voicher to pay for my private school with the funds rightfully set aside for my kids for public school, and I'll be on my way to a school that I can agree with the propaganda it puts out.

Oh, wait, school voichers. That should be a whole new thread!

If they give you a voucher, the private school will no longer be private.

 

[This_person]

...and community standards use to approve of slavery, limited women's right, religious exclusion, ethnic exclusion and so on.

Values ARE taught. They will be taught better if we simply acknowledge that fact.

Slavery? Voted out by Constitutional Amendment

Women's suffrage? Voted out

Religious exclusion? Never allowed in the first place

Ethnic exclusion? Voted out

We, the People of the United States of America, fixed those problems. Not, They, the School Board that Knows Better Than You.....