Gay marriage legal in MD

SAHRAB

This is fun right?
Esprix said:
Hmmm, I'd say that isn't technically true. They're honoring the marriage license, and they allow a minister (or a county clerk) to certify that license as valid. Whether the minister has a ceremony or just signs the document, I don't think the state really cares as long as the two being married sign it as well.

Regardless of what the anyone might or might not do in regard to marriage, I think that religious institutions will still continue to perform marriage ceremonies as they see fit, as is their tradition and right. No one should infringe upon that, IMHO.

Esprix

First dont get me wrong, i wasnt saying i was for, or against gay marriage. actually i dont think the gvmnt should dictate what 2 consenting adults do or dont do. same with the War on Drugs.

The arguments against Gay Marriage are spurious, or religious in nature.

My only concern in the whole Gay marriage thing, is the fact that right now some states have laws legalizing it, and some states have laws forbidding it. what is the Legal status of someone that moves from Massachussettes (sp?)(where i believe its legal) to Utah (where it isnt)??

i was just hypothesizing (is that a word?) about a scenario i could see the ACLU going after.

and the State does Legally recognize the religious Ceremony. we went to the County to get our license, went before a (non-denominational) pastor for the ceremony, and we were Legally Bound in marriage. we could have gone to a justice o' the peace to do it but didnt.
 

SAHRAB

This is fun right?
vraiblonde said:
May I say I find it tedious when a discussion about the legal rights of gays devolves into a discussion of personal religious beliefs?

I think I've been pretty tolerant of those who believe differently than I do, but religion is religion and the law is the law - two very separate things. This is not a theocracy and religion has nothing to do with our laws and government. So can we stick with the laws and our rights under the Constitution, and quit harping about God and sin and whatever else?

:doh:


Amen sistah

(lol get the pun?)
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
sleuth said:
But the bottom line is, gays want to be legitimized.
That's fine, but they're gonna have to wait a generation or two. Mainstream homosexuality is still a fairly new concept and it's going to take a while for the public to adjust.

What hurts the gay "cause" is their acceptance and embracing of the mentally ill among them - transgendered, transsexual and various other freaks. Normal gay people should distance themselves from that other faction - then I'll bet you'd see more acceptance from mainstream America. Being gay is unusual enough, but when you see them marching side by side with trannys NOW you want to avoid them.
 

SAHRAB

This is fun right?
onebdzee said:
Get out of the 19th century!....Marriage is not the bond between a MAN and a WOMEN....it is a legal bond between two people that want to share the rest of their lives together


Lol But who's the Miserable one in a "Same Sex" Marriage

In a "straight" relationship we know who it is :razz:

Is on of the Gay Guys, the miserable one? or do they trade off?

Do the Gal's make each other miserable?


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 

Bustem' Down

Give Peas a Chance
My only question is why are people against civil unions for homosexuals. Civil Unions have nothing to do with church, so why be against it?
 

ajhkmr97

TexasPride1977
BS Gal said:
2a - I find it hard to understand why you believe your beliefs are the only right ones? I find it rather disturbing, actually, which explains why I am attending the church I am (albiet, only once so far). I want to celebrate God, not be told that everything I do, whether I believe it is a just and good thing, is going to send me to hell in a handbasket. I do not want to be fearful, nor do I want to become one of those people who refuse to accept anybody else's beliefs.

I dont think tha 2A is saying that his belief are the "only right" ones. He has mentioned several times that what he says is his own beliefs. Perhaps I may be mistaken. Besides, even if he did believe that his beliefs are the right ones, does it really matter? Are his beliefs going to change your mind or any one else? I really dont think so. We have the choice to either agree or disagree.

I am happy that you have taken the step to find your own relationship with Christ. Understand that is YOUR realationship and not mine or 2A's. How you worship God is between you and God. What you think is approporate or not for worship is your opinion. Who am I to judge that?

I truely believe that if you just listed to 2A - and just take what he has to say under consideration ONLY - you may find that you dont have to agree with everything he says. I do think that he has posted primairly scripture though and I dont think it is the scripture that you are finding offenceive but rather his interpretation of the scripture. If thats the case - why not debate on the interpretation? 2A may not see things from your perspective and may appreciate an alternate understanding of scripture. I know I would. Heck, if I understood all scriptre - I'd be the only priest in the world! But - God does not want me to understand all scripture muchless the same way someone else may understand it.

Just food for thought...
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
BS Gal said:
2a - I find it hard to understand why you believe your beliefs are the only right ones? I find it rather disturbing, actually, which explains why I am attending the church I am (albiet, only once so far). I want to celebrate God, not be told that everything I do, whether I believe it is a just and good thing, is going to send me to hell in a handbasket. I do not want to be fearful, nor do I want to become one of those people who refuse to accept anybody else's beliefs.
I believe the Bible in its entirety. If there are any points where my personal human feelings disagree, I am the one that is wrong, and I am the one that needs to seek how to reconcile my feelings to God's instructions. I quote scripture in context to back up what I post. Of course most don't really care what the Bible says. Who knows? Maybe when I die, I'll just die and there is nothing, but the evidence of the resurrection says that is not true and there is an eternal afterlife. I look to the afterlife and living in the presence of The Almighty God for eternity. I have accepted Jesus' great commission. I tell the Biblical truth, not something I have made up. Do I understand it all? No. When I don't, I pray for God's wisdom and believe that He will guide me. He has not failed yet, and I never expect Him to.

It sounds like you are seeking a "later days" church of verses 3 and 4 which is fast becoming most of the organized religions. I try to follow the instructions of verses 1, 2, and 5. Sadly, most ministers do not. "Church" has become a business rather than doing the work of God even if it steps on toes.
2 Timothy 4:1-5

1I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.

5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
The first question of the minister for those really seeking God and looking for a church should be, "Do you believe the Bible is the immutable word of God?" If there is any hesitation or answer other than a resounding "Yes!", look for a different church.
 
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Toxick

Splat
BS Gal said:
2a - I find it hard to understand why you believe your beliefs are the only right ones?

Why is that hard to understand?

If you don't agree that a belief is the right one, why would you subscribe to it?


I'm a Christian because I believe that it is THE correct choice. If I thought the Sikhs were correct, I would be a Sikh. If I thought Hindus were correct, I would follow Hindism. If I thought Scientology had merit.... you get the idea.




BS Gal said:
I do not want to be fearful, nor do I want to become one of those people who refuse to accept anybody else's beliefs.


I find it hard to understand why anyone WOULD accept beliefs that they thought were a load of crap.

Now, I'm not one of those people who go around telling people, "You're a (whatever)ist - and therefore you are going to fry in HELL! HELL! HELL!". But I certainly don't think they're belief is "valid to them, like mine is to me." I simply think they're wrong.

If I didn't, I'd be following that religion myself.
 

ajhkmr97

TexasPride1977
Bustem' Down said:
My only question is why are people against civil unions for homosexuals. Civil Unions have nothing to do with church, so why be against it?


I think may have a possible answer. Marriage was originally an institution that was founded and nurtured in the church. To answer your question, you have to look back to how people lived their lives, back when the concept of "marriage" first came about. People were God fearing. Today, people are not God fearing.

As I said in a previous post in this thread - Americans have drifted away from the Christian foundations on which this country was founded on. Most Americans still base their decisions on those Christian principals – marriage & death for example. I don’t understand why so many feel that they have to be married and buried in a church and yet never go to church to worship God a day in their lives. Why let a priest marry you when you let non-clergy divorce you? Why let a priest pray over your dead body when you never gave yourself to God in the first place??

Bottom line - for all the controversy to be over (imo) - America has to completely jettison the concept of God and become a self centered society. It will be then and only then that radical concepts (such as civil unions/abortions) will be completely accepted by society as being a justifiably "right" thing to do.
 

Bustem' Down

Give Peas a Chance
ajhkmr97 said:
I think may have a possible answer. Marriage was originally an institution that was founded and nurtured in the church. To answer your question, you have to look back to how people lived their lives, back when the concept of "marriage" first came about. People were God fearing. Today, people are not God fearing.

As I said in a previous post in this thread - Americans have drifted away from the Christian foundations on which this country was founded on. Most Americans still base their decisions on those Christian principals – marriage & death for example. I don’t understand why so many feel that they have to be married and buried in a church and yet never go to church to worship God a day in their lives. Why let a priest marry you when you let non-clergy divorce you? Why let a priest pray over your dead body when you never gave yourself to God in the first place??

Bottom line - for all the controversy to be over (imo) - America has to completely jettison the concept of God and become a self centered society. It will be then and only then that radical concepts (such as civil unions/abortions) will be completely accepted by society as being a justifiably "right" thing to do.
That's all well and good, if a church doesn't want to do it that's fine. But a civil union is just that, civil. It has nothing to do with god or or anyone. I don't plan on getting married in a church because I don't believe in god. Should I not be allow to get married?
 
D

dems4me

Guest
vraiblonde said:
That's fine, but they're gonna have to wait a generation or two. Mainstream homosexuality is still a fairly new concept and it's going to take a while for the public to adjust.

What hurts the gay "cause" is their acceptance and embracing of the mentally ill among them - transgendered, transsexual and various other freaks. Normal gay people should distance themselves from that other faction - then I'll bet you'd see more acceptance from mainstream America. Being gay is unusual enough, but when you see them marching side by side with trannys NOW you want to avoid them.


I have two tranny friends. One is in pre-op stage last I spoke with him/her and the other was into S&M/dungeons/visiting dominatrixes,etc... last I spoke with him. He was in theprocess of trying to become a unix and getting himself castrated. The two tranny friends I have are also gay and feel they were born in the wrong body :shrug: they look at it as natures mistake and they are correcting it. They've been osticized all their life for acting like the other sex and having naturally born-given effeminate mannerisms, when all they were doing is just being themselves. They feel switching sexs will be closure and make them feel ok in their own skin if that makes any sense :shrug: They feel it enables them to finally be them and be the person they were supposed to be. While I agree with you... the gays should distance them selves.. but they too for the most part from what I've seen they are also gay. :shrug: If you think about it V, there's more trannys than folks realize. Girls just pull it off easier with less public scrutiny than a guy. Lets face it, there's lots of butches out there that dress in guys clothes but nothing is thought of in terms of ... she's a transexual, freak or whatever, but when a guy does it (dresses in girls clothes) its viewed entirely different :shrug: :huggy:
But, if the girl goes and gets a moustache and beard, etc... as a man does when he makes breasts... that's a little different. I gotta agree with you - that is a little extreme, and I don't know why they try to hurt their cause in such a way. If they are pre-op than they have to do that but not that many folks have the guts to do that. I say if you feel that way and want to dress to such extreeme, go ahead - earn the funds for surgury and be done with it. :shrug: After all they are the ones that cry about being not accepted by society... do something about it! They just exacerbate their cause with their on and off breasts,etc.. if you want them that bad, they can be bought for a price. :shrug:
 
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BS Gal

Voted Nicest in 08
2ndAmendment said:
I believe the Bible in its entirety. If there are any points where my personal human feelings disagree, I am the one that is wrong, and I am the one that needs to seek how to reconcile my feelings to God's instructions. I quote scripture in context to back up what I post. Of course most don't really care what the Bible says. Who knows? Maybe when I die, I'll just die and there is nothing, but the evidence of the resurrection says that is not true and there is an eternal afterlife. I look to the afterlife and living in the presence of The Almighty God for eternity. I have accepted Jesus' great commission. I tell the Biblical truth, not something I have made up. Do I understand it all? No. When I don't, I pray for God's wisdom and believe that He will guide me. He has not failed yet, and I never expect Him to.

It sounds like you are seeking a "later days" church of verses 3 and 4 which is fast becoming most of the organized religions. I try to follow the instructions of verses 1, 2, and 5. Sadly, most ministers do not. "Church" has become a business rather than doing the work of God even if it steps on toes.The first question of the minister for those really seeking God and looking for a church should be, "Do you believe the Bible is the immutable word of God?" If there is any hesitation or answer other than a resounding "Yes!", look for a different church.

I think you should just visit this church and see for yourself what it's all about. Being "new" to the entire church thing, I am looking for a church that is non-judgmental, you know, the kind that doesn't try to scare you, but instead teaches you and also, one that I can relate to in real life. I can say that I have not read the Bible - portions of it, but certainly not enough to even be familiar with what is in it. That is the next step in this journey I have begun, I guess. I'm just trying to understand the fundamentals right now.
 

SAHRAB

This is fun right?
ajhkmr97 said:
I think may have a possible answer. Marriage was originally an institution that was founded and nurtured in the church. To answer your question, you have to look back to how people lived their lives, back when the concept of "marriage" first came about. People were God fearing. Today, people are not God fearing.

As I said in a previous post in this thread - Americans have drifted away from the Christian foundations on which this country was founded on. Most Americans still base their decisions on those Christian principals – marriage & death for example. I don’t understand why so many feel that they have to be married and buried in a church and yet never go to church to worship God a day in their lives. Why let a priest marry you when you let non-clergy divorce you? Why let a priest pray over your dead body when you never gave yourself to God in the first place??

Bottom line - for all the controversy to be over (imo) - America has to completely jettison the concept of God and become a self centered society. It will be then and only then that radical concepts (such as civil unions/abortions) will be completely accepted by society as being a justifiably "right" thing to do.

The Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed., 2004 (this is a Snippet lol)
topic: Marriage
Socially sanctioned union that reproduces the family. In all societies the choice of partners is generally guided by rules of exogamy (the obligation to marry outside a group); some societies also have rules of endogamy (the obligation to marry within a group). These rules may be prescriptive or, as in the case of the incest taboo, proscriptive; they generally apply to kinship groups such as clan or lineage; residential groups; and social groups such as the ethnic group, caste, or class.

In many societies marriage links not just nuclear families but larger social formations as well. Some endogamous societies are divided into different exogamous groups (such as clans or lineages): Men form alliances through the exchange of women, and the social organization regulates these alliances through marriage rules. In some cases, two men from different groups exchange sisters for brides. Other instances involve an adult man marrying the young or infant daughter of another man; sexual relations would be deferred for many years, but the two men will have formed a strong bond. Marriages are often arranged by the families through the services of a matchmaker or go-between, and commence with a ritual celebration, or wedding. Some cultures practice trial marriage; the couple lives together before deciding whether they should marry. Society generally prescribes where newlywed couples should live: In patrilocal cultures, they live with or near the husband's family; in matrilocal ones, with or near the wife's family. Under neolocal residence, the couple establishes their own household.

Although marriage tends to be regarded in many places as a permanent tie, divorce is allowed in most modern societies. The causes of divorce vary, but adultery, desertion, infertility, failure to provide the necessities of life, mistreatment, and incompatibility are the most common. Civil unions are now permitted in Western countries, but for nearly a thousand years marriage in the Western world was a religious contract. The Christian church undertook its supervision in the 9th cent., when newlywed couples instituted the practice of coming to the church door to have their union blessed by the priest. Eventually the church regulated marriage through canon law. In contemporary N Europe marriage has lost some of importance, especially as social legislation has emphasized assuring equal financial benefits and legal standing to children born to unwed parents.

Monogamy (the union of one wife to one husband) is the prevalent form almost everywhere. Polygyny (or polygamy; having several wives at one time), however, has been a prerogative in many societies. It is commonly found where the value of women's labor is high and may be practiced as a way of acquiring allies: A man may cement his bonds with several other men by marrying their sisters or daughters. Polyandry (having several husbands at one time) is rare, having occurred infrequently in Tibetan society, among the Marquesas of Polynesia, and among certain hill tribes in India. People who enjoy only a marginal subsistence may practice polyandry as a way of limiting births. It is also practiced where brothers must work together to sustain one household; they share one wife. The custom of marrying a widow to her late husband's brother is known as levirate marriage and was common among the ancient Hebrews. In sororate marriages a widower marries his deceased (or barren) wife's sister. The levirate and the sororate occur in societies where marriage is seen to create an alliance between groups; the deceased spouse's group has a duty to provide a new spouse to the widow or widower, thereby preserving the alliance. In recent years many gay-rights groups have sought official recognition of same-sex couples that would be comparable to marriage.


For More Mind Numbing information on Marriage go to Wikipedia (<--linky)
Typically, marriage is the institution through which people join together their lives in emotional and economic ways through forming a household. It often confers rights and obligations with respect to raising children, holding property, sexual behavior, kinship ties, tribal membership, relationship to society, inheritance, emotional intimacy, and love.
 

Geek

New Member
2ndAmendment said:
I believe the Bible in its entirety.


~Except for the Old Testament which is a guidebook for the Jews and does not apply to you.

"Church" has become a business rather than doing the work of God even if it steps on toes.

Has become a business? Church has always been a business take tithe or the
Crusades..It has not been 2000 plus years of pure driven individuals marching their followers through the gate of Heaven..
 

ajhkmr97

TexasPride1977
Bustem' Down said:
That's all well and good, if a church doesn't want to do it that's fine. But a civil union is just that, civil. It has nothing to do with god or or anyone. I don't plan on getting married in a church because I don't believe in god. Should I not be allow to get married?


I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. Yes, a civil union has nothing to do with God....but the common understanding is that a "marriage" does. Civil unions are a new concept to society. It will take longer for society to accept them. Christians will not accept civil unions as being legit. For a non-Christian that may not be a big deal but a majority of society are Christian/religious. Non believers are going to have to understand that society is like a big church congregation in itself. The Church congregation votes on policy (doctrine) to determine what is or is not an ethical practice - I don’t see how that is much different from what we do everyday in Government. If (assuming) a majority of society is religious – can it be sort of seen that Americans are part of one big church (country) but each "church member" (citizen) just has different understandings on how to practice their faith (freedom). Even for an athiest - their faith is that there is no diety but themselves - they have faith in themselves.

Essentially it all may be equated as:
Marriage = God related
Civil Union = Not God Related

A marriage and a civil union are not the same thing but they (in a manner of speaking - sound the same). What is that word the describes a two words that sound the same but have different meanings......umm...cannot remember. But I hope my point is understood anyways..

Again – all this is about perception and who knows (but God himself) – my perception may be off. I am open to new understandings of things…..
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
BS Gal said:
I think you should just visit this church and see for yourself what it's all about. Being "new" to the entire church thing, I am looking for a church that is non-judgmental, you know, the kind that doesn't try to scare you, but instead teaches you and also, one that I can relate to in real life. I can say that I have not read the Bible - portions of it, but certainly not enough to even be familiar with what is in it. That is the next step in this journey I have begun, I guess. I'm just trying to understand the fundamentals right now.
I have a church "home", and I am comfortable that the pastors preach straight from the Bible and do not sugar coat anything. I find myself saying, "Yeah" most of the time and sometime I find myself thinking, "Ouch" because they hit an area of my life that needs alignment with God's word. I do not agree with their doctrine on some things. They believe that all those filled with the Holy Spirit should speak in tongues; I do not nor does that conform to what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 12:30. They believe in a pre-tribulation rapture; I do not. But these things are rather inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

You are welcome any time.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Geek said:
2ndAmendment said:
I believe the Bible in its entirety.


~Except for the Old Testament which is a guidebook for the Jews and does not apply to you.

"Church" has become a business rather than doing the work of God even if it steps on toes.

Has become a business? Church has always been a business take tithe or the
Crusades..It has not been 2000 plus years of pure driven individuals marching their followers through the gate of Heaven..
Obviously you don't read what I post or only choose to read what you can twist. I guess I'll just ignore what you post from now on since all you want is argument.
 

Spoiled

Active Member
ajhkmr97 said:
I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. Yes, a civil union has nothing to do with God....but the common understanding is that a "marriage" does. Civil unions are a new concept to society. It will take longer for society to accept them. Christians will not accept civil unions as being legit. For a non-Christian that may not be a big deal but a majority of society are Christian/religious. Non believers are going to have to understand that society is like a big church congregation in itself. The Church congregation votes on policy (doctrine) to determine what is or is not an ethical practice - I don’t see how that is much different from what we do everyday in Government. If (assuming) a majority of society is religious – can it be sort of seen that Americans are part of one big church (country) but each "church member" (citizen) just has different understandings on how to practice their faith (freedom). Even for an athiest - their faith is that there is no diety but themselves - they have faith in themselves.

Essentially it all may be equated as:
Marriage = God related
Civil Union = Not God Related

A marriage and a civil union are not the same thing but they (in a manner of speaking - sound the same). What is that word the describes a two words that sound the same but have different meanings......umm...cannot remember. But I hope my point is understood anyways..

Again – all this is about perception and who knows (but God himself) – my perception may be off. I am open to new understandings of things…..
Again though, the government doesn't care if it is a religious thing or not. Or atleast they should not, so in their eyes it's all the same. I call it a tomato (ta-may-toe), you call it a tomato (ta-mau-toe). In the end it is still the same damn thing.
 
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Geek

New Member
2ndAmendment said:
Obviously you don't read what I post or only choose to read what you can twist. I guess I'll just ignore what you post from now on since all you want is argument.
I have read every post very carefully. I clicked on the link in your signature to do research. I actually respect what you have to say and think that it is nice to converse with someone who has possibly read the Bible as much as I have. I do not want an argument, I want to debate to defend people I believe in. It is what I think Jesus would do, and that is how I live my life. Feel free to ignore me, I stay quiet for no one.
 
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