"Gays" - tell them the Truth

Chasey_Lane

Salt Life
jazz lady said:
Don't feel bad. I got the same kind of thing and probably from the same hit-and-run idiot:


<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY id=collapseobj_usercp_reputation><TR><TD class=alt2>redhttp://forums.somd.com/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif</TD><TD class=alt1Active id=p980582 width="50%">"Gays" - tell...</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap>06-08-2005 12:40 PM</TD><TD class=alt1 width="50%">Mis-quoting...</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


By the way, dingus, the word does NOT have a dash and is properly spelled "misquoting." :neener:
Go, Jazz! Go, Jazz! :banana: :getdown:
 

Tinkerbell

Baby blues
God teaches compassion and love for ALL fellow men above anything else. He teaches forgiveness for one another and not to judge each other. Jesus surrounded himself with blatant sinners (Mary Magadalene for example) because they needed him more than anyone. He used love and compassion to gently turn them from their sins. He didn't ridicule or make them feel like they were less than everyone else because of thier sins. Maybe we could all take a lesson from that.

This thread started with why gays are wrong, etc. Everywhere you turn, there are articles and laws, etc. trying to force gays to "act right." I don't think homosexuality is correct either (it's a sin in my opinion), but it isn't right for anyone to condemn them or put them in a "lesser" group and say "Oh, you must stop it you horrible immoral people..." Just have compassion and love and gently let them know you care. Tell them what you think - then let it go. People are free to make their own decisions - that's why God gave us free-will, he didn't want us to be his robots.
 
D

dems4me

Guest
Chasey_Lane said:
I REALLY hate to bring this back up, but I've been doing some research and my thoughts are this:

In the OT, God condemns homosexuality for his chosen people, the Children of Israel. And for those that need it in writing, please reference Leviticus 18:1-3,22. Gods prohibition of homosexuality applies only to the Hebrews, not the Gentiles.

The NT says nothing about homosexuality. Paul condemns them, but not because he wants to increase population, but because he disapproves of all sexual activity. Please reference 1 Corninthians 7:1, 5, 8-9, 29.

My conclusion is that according to the Bible, if you are a Jew or a Christian virgin, the Bible gives you no right to bash gays. If you want to be like Jesus, you won't condemn them at all. :patriot:


I believe Romans 12 does, but it depends on how its interpreted :shrug:
 
D

dems4me

Guest
Chasey_Lane said:
You believe it says what? Be kind to others?


No no silly... somewhere in there I think it refers to what someone could consider aimed at gay people :shrug:
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
OK Jazz, here you go. I trust you will read this in its entirety as opposed to many that will skim and jump to conclusions in order to quickly get in their counter point or try to refute what I am posting.

First, let me say that I never post anything that is meant to be any form of hate. I try to have love and compassion even for those I don't particularly care for. I am not condemning anyone, because I can't. I don't have that power; it belongs to God. I do follow Jesus' instruction to proclaim the Truth. It is far more loving to want people to establish a personal relationship with Jesus through Truth than it is to lie to them saying something is OK when it is not.

Let me point out that going to church, being from a Christian family, being raised in a Christian environment, studying theology, or even reading the Bible does not make a person a Christian. Accepting Y'shua (Jesus) as Savior and Lord and keeping a personal relationship with Him is the way you become and are a Christian.

That said, here are my observations on the Bible.

The Bible is a collection of books, journals, songs, proverbs, poems, and letters. There are 39 books of the Old Testament and 27 books in the New Testament in a canonical Bible. The Old Testament is the Jewish Torah. The first five books of the Old Testament is the Pentateuch. The books of the Bible are not necessarily arranged in chronological order. There is some indication that the book of Genesis was written after Exodus and certain books were probably written during the same period by different authors and certain books were written over a period of time by several authors. The forgoing comments apply primarily to the Old Testament but in some cases as to order apply to the New Testament.

The Bible is a history book. It is a book of the census. It has love stories, war stories, accounts of how the men of God were treated by the general populace, prophesy, lots of different topics all centered around one theme, God and His plan and interaction with people, especially the Jews in the Old Testament.

Much of the Old Testament is Jewish history. Exodus is the account to the Israelites leaving Egypt, crossing the Red Sea, and wandering for 40 years in the wilderness. This is also where God gives the Ten Commandments. Exodus 20:14 <sup id="en-NASB-2066">14</sup>"You shall not commit adultery." is an English translation for the concept of not having sex outside of marriage. It could as easily have been translated as "You shall not have sexual relations outside of marriage." So, no fornication, no same sex sex, and no sex with children, animals, or anyone or anything other than your spouse. There are also laws on slavery and lots of other things. Let's address the slavery issue. It was not like the slavery we think of prior to the civil war in the U.S. It was more like the live in servants we have today. Often, someone would put them self into the service of another for a period of time to pay a debt or earn a piece of property or even earn the right to marry the daughter of a family. Also, Jewish slaves were to be released after no more than six years of service and would be set free unless they choose to remain the servant or slave of the household. There were lots of other rules too. Leviticus, Deuteronomy contain many additional laws and sacrifices.

The historical truth of the Bible is the basis for the nation of Israel. Archaeologists have used the Bible to find ancient cites and cultures that there was no mention of anywhere except the Bible; the Assyrians and the city of Nineveh are examples. It is the historical account of the Israelites of the wanderings or the twelve tribes in the desert, conquering of Palestine, split into two factions, Judah and Israel, their wars and conflicts with each other, Babylonia, Assyrians, and others.

Now just because these were laws given either by God to the Jews or created by the Jews does not mean they are not applicable for instruction of us to know what is expected and is right in the eyes of God. Many of the commands and laws carried the death penalty as does any and all sin.
Romans 5:11-13 (New American Standard Bible)
<sup id="en-NASB-28059">11</sup>And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
<sup id="en-NASB-28060">12</sup>Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
<sup id="en-NASB-28061">13</sup>for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
But God provided Himself, comes as the Son of Man, Y'shua, Jesus, as the final sacrifice ever needed for our sin with the proviso that we accept Him.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So the laws and sacrifices are there as instruction and example as to what is required to be perfect to show us we can't be perfect and that we need Jesus as our Savior to be reconciled to God. Now just because we cannot be perfect does not mean a Christian should not strive for perfection as proper thanks to God for the gift of Salvation.


Those that had sexual relations outside of marriage were still stoned to death by the Jews in Jesus' day.
John 8:2-


<sup id="en-NASB-26384">2</sup>Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them.
<sup id="en-NASB-26385">3</sup>The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court,
<sup id="en-NASB-26386">4</sup>they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act.
<sup id="en-NASB-26387">5</sup>"Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?"
<sup id="en-NASB-26388">6</sup>They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground.
<sup id="en-NASB-26389">7</sup>But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
<sup id="en-NASB-26390">8</sup>Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.
<sup id="en-NASB-26391">9</sup>When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court.
<sup id="en-NASB-26392">10</sup>Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?"
<sup id="en-NASB-26393">11</sup>She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either Go From now on sin no more."
Jesus showed forgiveness but also said not to sin even though forgiven. Some Middle East cultures still stone adulterers and fornicators to death.

Genius is the account of creation. It also has the account of the first judgment on mankind when God wiped all of mankind on the face of the earth except one family. Genesis is also where the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is found where God wiped out two cities with the exception of one family. God, besides being a loving Father, is also an exacting judge and He always carries out His promises.

The Song of Solomon is erotic without being vulgar.

continued ....
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
OK, here is one where I expect lots of flack. Yes, wives are to subject themselves to their husbands authority because the husband is the head of the household. That does not mean that wives are subservient to the husband. Husbands are given the responsibility to love and treat their wives as Jesus loves the church.
Ephesians 5:22-33

<sup id="en-NASB-29327">22</sup>Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
<sup id="en-NASB-29328">23</sup>For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
<sup id="en-NASB-29329">24</sup>But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.
<sup id="en-NASB-29330">25</sup>Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,
<sup id="en-NASB-29331">26</sup>so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
<sup id="en-NASB-29332">27</sup>that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
<sup id="en-NASB-29333">28</sup>So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;
<sup id="en-NASB-29334">29</sup>for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church,
<sup id="en-NASB-29335">30</sup>because we are members of His body.
<sup id="en-NASB-29336">31</sup>FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.
<sup id="en-NASB-29337">32</sup>This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
<sup id="en-NASB-29338">33</sup>Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.
So it is a two way street. The husband's obligation to the wife is demanding.

The Bible is a instruction book. Read Proverbs for the answers on how to deal with people, parents, and children. Read the letters of Paul, Peter, and John to understand how Christians are to live. The Bible is a song book. Psalms is the book that contains songs of worship and praise, sorrow and lament, glory and honor. The book of Numbers is a book of the census of the Israelites. It has other stuff in it too, but it is the numbering of the people.

There are books of prophesy, history in advance. Many make the mistake of trying to interpret the prophesies in terms of their own country or circumstance. The Jews are God's chosen people. Why? He chose to come as the Son of Man as a Jew. There was prophesy hundreds of years before Jesus was born that the Jews would reject and kill Him and that He would rise from the dead. It is because the Jews rejected their Messiah, the gentiles, us, were "adopted" as children of God if we accept the gift of Salvation. So if you look at the books of prophesy with the Jews in mind, you will find that the prophetic time line for the earth is very near the end. The holocaust was prophesied as was the formation of the nation of Israel in one day. There are only a couple of prophetic events left to be fulfilled. When they will be fulfilled, only God knows.

The Bible is a book about the persecution of the people of God, the prophets, ministers, and disciples. Most were killed. Proclaiming the word of God is not popular, even today. Biblical Truth is offensive to people that are doing things that they should not.

The Bible is a book of hope for mankind. It presents God's plan from beginning to end with examples of His judgment and His love. It presents the history of the ancestors of Jesus to authenticate His reality. It presents God's plan for reconciling all mankind to Him. The Bible contains accounts of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is what gives Christians hope of eternal life. If Jesus had just died, He would be no different than any man. Because He rose from the dead, He proved Himself to be God and beyond the power of death. He proved He could save us from death if we follow His plan.

OK. How do I know Jesus rose from the dead? It could all be a lie. Well Jesus is either the biggest hoax ever pulled or He is who He proclaims Himself to be. That is the subject of another thread.
 

Chasey_Lane

Salt Life
More on my research:

The Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality being sinful when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts. The word "homosexuality" didn't even exist until 1869. The word first appeared in Germany to describe the theory that from birth some people are predisposed toward persons of the same sex. Since the biblical languages had no words for heterosexual or homosexual, it is anachronistic and misleading when homosexual is used to translate a biblical text. It is wrong to proclaim the biblical view of homosexuality since there is none. This violates the integrity of the individual texts and the biblical witness as a whole. Each reference to what is today homosexuality must be read in the light of the particular literary, cultural, and historic contexts of any particular passage.
:patriot:
 

Sharon

* * * * * * * * *
Staff member
PREMO Member
Chasey_Lane said:
when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts.

My hat's off to you Chasey! :cheers:

I had no idea you were so well scholared in the actual Greek and Hebrew languages. :notworthy





Nice cut and paste job, how about a link? :lmao:
 

Chasey_Lane

Salt Life
Sharon said:
My hat's off to you Chasey! :cheers:

I had no idea you were so well scholared in the actual Greek and Hebrew languages. :notworthy

Nice cut and paste job, how about a link? :lmao:
Your husband must be a scholar, too, since he knows so much about the Bible as well. :rolleyes:

You want a link, find it yourself - it's out there!
 

jazz lady

~*~ Rara Avis ~*~
PREMO Member
2ndAmendment said:
OK Jazz, here you go. I trust you will read this in its entirety as opposed to many that will skim and jump to conclusions in order to quickly get in their counter point or try to refute what I am posting
Thank you, 2A. I plan on doing just that (reading it thoroughly first and then replying), but unfortunately I just don't have the time right now to do so but I'm planning on it for later in the weekend.
 
Chasey_Lane said:
More on my research:

The Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality being sinful when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts. The word "homosexuality" didn't even exist until 1869. The word first appeared in Germany to describe the theory that from birth some people are predisposed toward persons of the same sex. Since the biblical languages had no words for heterosexual or homosexual, it is anachronistic and misleading when homosexual is used to translate a biblical text. It is wrong to proclaim the biblical view of homosexuality since there is none. This violates the integrity of the individual texts and the biblical witness as a whole. Each reference to what is today homosexuality must be read in the light of the particular literary, cultural, and historic contexts of any particular passage.
:patriot:


How do you explain the text in the Bible that describes a woman laying down with a woman or a man with a man in the bible. Isn't the concept of woman laying down (in the Biblical sense) with another woman and men having sex with men, considered homosexuality?
 
jazz lady said:
Thank you, 2A. I plan on doing just that (reading it thoroughly first and then replying), but unfortunately I just don't have the time right now to do so but I'm planning on it for later in the weekend.


You don't owe anyone an explanation. Why waste your precious weekend time for a debate with a forumite member, where the result will be both parties having to agree to disagree in biblical proportions on Biblical interpretations?
 

Chasey_Lane

Salt Life
Verisimilitude said:
How do you explain the text in the Bible that describes a woman laying down with a woman or a man with a man in the bible. Isn't the concept of woman laying down (in the Biblical sense) with another woman and men having sex with men, considered homosexuality?
Leviticus? 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I said the Bible doesn't make reference to the word "homosexuality." :patriot:
 
Chasey_Lane said:
Leviticus? 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I said the Bible doesn't make reference to the word "homosexuality." :patriot:


OK, but I believe its posted in several other passages where women should not take up with women and men take up with men as well though. :patriot: Although I'm not a word etimologyst, I'm in agreement that the word homosexuality was not prevelant in Biblical times. :patriot:
 

jazz lady

~*~ Rara Avis ~*~
PREMO Member
Verisimilitude said:
You don't owe anyone an explanation. Why waste your precious weekend time for a debate with a forumite member, where the result will be both parties having to agree to disagree in biblical proportions on Biblical interpretations?
No, I do not owe anyone an explanation. But I appreciate the thought and effort put in by 2A and to NOT read what he wrote since I asked would be totally disrespectful. I know he would do the same for me.
 
jazz lady said:
No, I do not owe anyone an explanation. But I appreciate the thought and effort put in by 2A and to NOT read what he wrote since I asked would be totally disrespectful. I know he would do the same for me.


You appear to be a very honorable person. I wish the world was filled with more respectful people such as yourself. :patriot:
 

K_Jo

Pea Brain
PREMO Member
Verisimilitude said:
You appear to be a very honorable person. I wish the world was filled with more respectful people such as yourself. :patriot:
Forum experts are in the lab working round the clock to clone her.
 
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