Gaza pullout

[vraiblonde]

The video is very unsettling (no pun intended). These Israeli soldiers, coming into peoples' homes and forcibly removing them just makes me sick. I mean, I know why they're doing it and I understand why Sharon proposed this "solution", but I disagree with it. First the Sinai Peninsula, now the West Bank - what next? Jerusalem?

It's my understanding that Isreal won that land fair and square. Why the pullout? Why appease terrorists and empower them? Certainly Sharon knows his country better than I do, but still...it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[vraiblonde]

And I don't think Bush has been supportive enough of the Israelis. They're fighting the same war we are, practically, and you'd think the US would be more aligned with them.

I don't understand this. If someone can explain it, please do.

 

[Bustem' Down]

And I don't think Bush has been supportive enough of the Israelis. They're fighting the same war we are, practically, and you'd think the US would be more aligned with them.

I don't understand this. If someone can explain it, please do.

Screw the Israelis. They're backstabbers and I say let them fight thier own war.

 

[vraiblonde]

Screw the Israelis. They're backstabbers and I say let them fight thier own war.

Why do you say that?

 

[Bustem' Down]

USS Liberty June 8, 1967.
http://www.ussliberty.com/

I myself was personally threatened by thier air force in 2003. That's enough for me.

 

[Fred Hoeck]

This land, and Sinai, was taken by Isreal after 1967 war. It was not annexed by Isreal, and always remained occupied territory. Giving back the Sinai Pennisula to Eqypt resulted in peace. Isreal wants to remain a majority Jewish state, if it annexed these territories, the people living there would have to be granted Isreali citizenship. This would result in Isreal being no longer a Jewish state. The Palestinian Arabs living in the occupied territories are Christian and Muslim.
They decided to return the land so as not to grant citizenship to the Palestian Arabs. Hopefully this will result in peace. Dare I say pray for peace?

 

[SamSpade]

Until yesterday when I heard Netanyahu on Hannity, I was pretty much of the belief that the holdouts were a buncha Yahoos. They were given fair warning about it, and offered compensation.

But Netanyahu made some extremely valid points - by giving away Gaza completely, they embolden Hamas, who now claims a 'victory' over the Jews. What the pullout is saying, in big bold letters - terrorism WORKS, if you just do it long enough. They're not praying for peace; they're saying today Gaza, tomorrow, Jerusalem, and Tel Aviv the day after. This is appeasement; they don't want peace, and they don't want "their LAND back". They want the Jews *gone*. They tried to kill 'em all in '48 and '67. They've always been pretty clear - Israel has no right to exist, and their goal is to eradicate it.

Gaza is a small step in that direction.

It's not enough that they return the lands back - they HAD that, and the Arabs attacked them ANYWAY. So giving it up is "here you go, now please leave us alone". It's not righting a wrong; if the Arabs were overly concerned about homes for the Palestinians, they would have welcomed them in their borders, and they've refused.

The protestors will eventually lose, but good on 'em.

 

[vraiblonde]

Giving back the Sinai Pennisula to Eqypt resulted in peace.

It did? I must have missed it.

It just seems to me that it would make more sense to throw the Palestinians out, rather than their own people.

 

[vraiblonde]

USS Liberty June 8, 1967.

Huh. Does this mean you're still angry about Pearl Harbor? How about the South? Or the British?

 

[SamSpade]

They decided to return the land so as not to grant citizenship to the Palestian Arabs. Hopefully this will result in peace. Dare I say pray for peace?

But what you don't see, are throngs of praying Muslims thanking Allah - you see members of Hamas firing guns in the air. They do not want peace.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Huh. Does this mean you're still angry about Pearl Harbor? How about the South? Or the British?

Something was done about all of those. Read the website, NO ONE was held resposible for the sailors killed and wounded in cold blood.

 

[vraiblonde]

But Netanyahu made some extremely valid points - by giving away Gaza completely, they embolden Hamas, who now claims a 'victory' over the Jews. What the pullout is saying, in big bold letters - terrorism WORKS, if you just do it long enough. They're not praying for peace; they're saying today Gaza, tomorrow, Jerusalem, and Tel Aviv the day after. This is appeasement; they don't want peace, and they don't want "their LAND back". They want the Jews *gone*. They tried to kill 'em all in '48 and '67. They've always been pretty clear - Israel has no right to exist, and their goal is to eradicate it.

This is my opinion as well. I'm happy to have someone (Ken King, maybe? ) change my mind but this, to me, clearly sends the message that terrorism works. And that emboldens the little nasties in Iraq, Afghanistan and all around the world.

I'm surprised Bush would applaud this. I'll have to give him a "Very Unfavorable" in my next Zogby.

 

[Fred Hoeck]

It did? I must have missed it.

It just seems to me that it would make more sense to throw the Palestinians out, rather than their own people.

To clarify. Peace with Eqypt. Eqypt and Isreal have not been fighting since.

 

[SamSpade]

This land, and Sinai, was taken by Isreal after 1967 war. It was not annexed by Isreal, and always remained occupied territory. Giving back the Sinai Pennisula to Eqypt resulted in peace.

That was part of a condition made with a state - and the nation from whom they took it. Somehow, that kind of decision seems appropriate. Kind of.

THIS is different. This is "returning" land to people who have gained it via means of TERROR. It means terrorism works.

 

[SamSpade]

To clarify. Peace with Eqypt. Eqypt and Isreal have not been fighting since.

Although they killed the guy who brokered the deal.....

 

[bennydafig]

USS Liberty June 8, 1967.
http://www.ussliberty.com/

I myself was personally threatened by thier air force in 2003. That's enough for me.

I've read the reports on the Liberty, and it was where it wasn't supposed to be, nor was it where the Capt reported it being. Israel acted as we would, an unkown ship in hostile waters, an unknown WARship in hostile waters.. You SINK it.. and if you can't sink it, you engage it and stip it form it's intended mission.

THis incident happened during a full out war. Accidents happen.

But I know. You read about it on the ineternet so it MUST be true!!

 

[Fred Hoeck]

It's not enough that they return the lands back - they HAD that, and the Arabs attacked them ANYWAY. So giving it up is "here you go, now please leave us alone". It's not righting a wrong; if the Arabs were overly concerned about homes for the Palestinians, they would have welcomed them in their borders, and they've refused.

The protestors will eventually lose, but good on 'em.

First, the land that was to be given back was not contiquous, it was like holes in Swiss cheese. Gaza is to be contiguous, has border with Eqypt. Second, the talks went fine until Sharon, then out of power, made a big show of going to the temple mount with a couple of hundred troops, This provoked the last intivada.
It is intersting that people complaining of removing the Jewish settlers think it is OK to remove the Palestian Arabs. Read a column awhile back saying that should be done. Equated it to the population shifts after WWII in India and Poland/Germany.Russia. A reminder, the Indian colony was divided between Hindu India and Muslim Pakistan and the people were forced to move to the appropriate area. The Germans were moved out of East Prussia, the Poles were moved in, at same time the Poles were forced out of Eastern Poland which became part of Russia. As Churchill called it, Poland marched West.

 

[vraiblonde]

Although they killed the guy who brokered the deal.....

Snap! Beat me to it!

 

[fishinfool]

Huh. Does this mean you're still angry about Pearl Harbor? How about the South? Or the British?

Would you want your childrens children and so on to forget 9/11? The British burned DC and TERRORIZED this part of the country, The Japs attacked us directly and the south nearly ripped our country in two.

 

[Agee]

- you see members of Hamas firing guns in the air. They do not want peace.

I agree, and attacks on Isreal by Hamas, and groups like them will continue. Is it possible that the move by Sharon is more than just a peace offering?

One Middle East analyst speculated that with Sharons' military background, this move had military strategy at its core. Specifically, now with all Jews removed from the area, retaliation from Palestinian attacks would be swift and widespread, without the concern for loss of jewish lives.