Gaza pullout
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
Not forget, but not hold a grudge against Muslims who weren't even born when it happened. That's like black people hating modern-day southerners for slavery.fishinfool said:
Hessian
Well-Known Member
Benny,
It isn't just a story from Snopes regarding the USS Liberty...there is a great book out there (recent release) that fully investigated the attack and a lot of the declassified info. It was an intel ship...it was supposed to snoop info about the Israeli attack...and it WAS clearly marked as a US ship...the attack was NO accident. And our Govt has been very quiet about it for decades...Buy the book for a late summer read!
Regarding the w/drawal...it is again the long story of giving up land that has been improved, designed, well structured...and in the interest of "peace" handed over to crazed mobs: More likely the Palestinians that move in will loot & gut the place instead of try to maintain the improvements: No different than the Russians in Fall 1945: Pillage, destroy, loot...and leave a wasteland.
What the world needs is a series of "Before and After" photos to show what happens when you let fanatical 13th century mobs loose in the 21st century.
It isn't just a story from Snopes regarding the USS Liberty...there is a great book out there (recent release) that fully investigated the attack and a lot of the declassified info. It was an intel ship...it was supposed to snoop info about the Israeli attack...and it WAS clearly marked as a US ship...the attack was NO accident. And our Govt has been very quiet about it for decades...Buy the book for a late summer read!
Regarding the w/drawal...it is again the long story of giving up land that has been improved, designed, well structured...and in the interest of "peace" handed over to crazed mobs: More likely the Palestinians that move in will loot & gut the place instead of try to maintain the improvements: No different than the Russians in Fall 1945: Pillage, destroy, loot...and leave a wasteland.
What the world needs is a series of "Before and After" photos to show what happens when you let fanatical 13th century mobs loose in the 21st century.
Well, this explanation makes more sense than whatever twaddle Sharon and Bush are trying to palm off. Pulling out for peace sake sends the wrong message.Airgasm said:
Israel, by pulling out, is doing what International Law demands, and that is not taking land as a spoil of war. The occupation was one thing but the colonization of the land has been fanning the fires in this struggle more then was needed and I think Sharon and many like him are at the point of enough is enough. They are willing to use a proven means to get to a better life. It did result in formal recognition by an Arab nation and a more peaceable relationship with Egypt.
The time might be right now since Yassar is gone and the Palastinian homicide bombers main bankroller (Saddam) is gone. Considering that the land was not theirs to begin with and that the average "buy out" the Israeli colonists are getting is around $200K a household it seems an equitable arrangement. Afterall it isn't like they are just being booted out on the street like those that were initially displaced.
The time might be right now since Yassar is gone and the Palastinian homicide bombers main bankroller (Saddam) is gone. Considering that the land was not theirs to begin with and that the average "buy out" the Israeli colonists are getting is around $200K a household it seems an equitable arrangement. Afterall it isn't like they are just being booted out on the street like those that were initially displaced.
Are you crazy? If someone gave you $200k and told you you had to leave your home and move your family out of the state, would you consider that "equitable"?Ken King said:
And PS, they told you you had to get out because murderous criminals wanted your home???
There's no such thing as Palestine. We've gone through this before. If American Indians started reclaiming their land that the white man "stole" through war, would you go for that as well?
Get out of your house because murderers and rapists want it and they say they'll quit killing people if they can live in your home.
UFB!!
UFB!!
Nupe2
Well-Known Member
vraiblonde said:
Apparently there was. There's a lot more to the story (but I'm too busy to read it...let me know what you find out)!
http://www.palestinehistory.com/
Club'nBabySeals
Where are my pants?
It could just be the huge Palestinian flag on the header...but something tells me this is a slightly biased site...
Nupe2
Well-Known Member
Club'nBabySeals said:
As I said before (somewhat jokingly) there is a much bigger story that most of us don't have the time to research. The history of that region is long and the associations very complex. A solution to the conflict is not going to be simple and the issue is not as simple as whether or not Palestine existed.
There are many who fault the Israelis and many who fault the Palestinians. I've always questioned why neighboring states (Jordan, Syria, etc.) didn't carve out territory and make that Palestine. I know that too is a simplistic solution but as I said before, I'm busy.
Before claiming that the site is biased, take a few minutes and read. You might learn something...if you're not too busy. (then you can explain it to me)
Call me crazy, but you must certainly be blissful because you are abundantly ignorant.
First, had there been international laws as there are now the natives would never have been relocated as we took this country. We were pretty much heathens ourselves in those early years. But we aren't talking about that time in history we are talking about modern time (post-UN). Talk about comparing apples and oranges. I guess anything goes to validate your hatred of a race of people.
Next, had I taken your land, built myself a home on it, just because I could and then the Governor told me I had to leave but he would give me $200K you bet your sweet ass I would take it as the alternative would be just get the hell off property that wasn't mine.
Since 1974 Palestine has been recognized by the UN and has observer status. Whether you care to believe it or not is your problem, not mine. We can debate what was there as far as nations over the eons but as of now Palestine is there. You might want to start getting use to it.
And for clarity are you saying that all Arabs are murderers and rapists? There is a word for that type of thinking.
First, had there been international laws as there are now the natives would never have been relocated as we took this country. We were pretty much heathens ourselves in those early years. But we aren't talking about that time in history we are talking about modern time (post-UN). Talk about comparing apples and oranges. I guess anything goes to validate your hatred of a race of people.
Next, had I taken your land, built myself a home on it, just because I could and then the Governor told me I had to leave but he would give me $200K you bet your sweet ass I would take it as the alternative would be just get the hell off property that wasn't mine.
Since 1974 Palestine has been recognized by the UN and has observer status. Whether you care to believe it or not is your problem, not mine. We can debate what was there as far as nations over the eons but as of now Palestine is there. You might want to start getting use to it.
And for clarity are you saying that all Arabs are murderers and rapists? There is a word for that type of thinking.
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Club'nBabySeals
Where are my pants?
Simmer down.
I was being sardonnic...though perhaps I didn't include enough smilies in my post to make it clear to the general public.Not to throw credentials out or anything, but I've got a masters in Middle Eastern studies, and spent time working in the region. I did take a few moments to read through the site, and although it does make an effort to provide factual information it is very clear by the author's writing on which side of the argument he stands...ergo, "bias".
There are plenty of informational sites out there; though as with this one, most will require sifting through a good deal of rhetoric to get to the meat.
Nupe2 said:
Was. Just like there was a Constantinople and a Persia.
Because they don't want the Palestinians in their neck of the woods and they'd also like to stick it to the Jews. Kill two birds with one stone.
Ken King said:
I was merely making an analogy that would pertain to American civilians.But if you would like to call me a bigot because you have no rational defense of the Palestinians other than your emotional silliness, please feel free.
I know there are two different topics being discussed, but this is about the USS Liberty incident and how Bustem' Down feels that this means the US should not support Israel. Some good points were already made about Britain and Pearl Harbor. A more recent would be how American Military has killed Canadians fighting overseas as well. In 2002 those four soldiers were killed accidently by an American fighter pilot, who went virtually unpunished. So this should mean all Canadians should just say "Screw the USA" because of that. Well actually most already do but thats not the point.
It was disheartening to watch the Israeli forces remove the protesters yesterday. I do believe that giving up Gaza has only empowered the terrorist nation of Palestine over Israel. The only thing that i did disagree with from the protesters standpoint was how some were referring to the oppression of the Holocaust and calling the soldiers, who were just doing their jobs, 'Nazis'. I think that is ridiculous, especially considering that these soldiers were not using excessive force or retaliating from all the paint and things being thrown at them.
It was disheartening to watch the Israeli forces remove the protesters yesterday. I do believe that giving up Gaza has only empowered the terrorist nation of Palestine over Israel. The only thing that i did disagree with from the protesters standpoint was how some were referring to the oppression of the Holocaust and calling the soldiers, who were just doing their jobs, 'Nazis'. I think that is ridiculous, especially considering that these soldiers were not using excessive force or retaliating from all the paint and things being thrown at them.
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Nupe2
Well-Known Member
Club'nBabySeals said:Simmer down.
Not to throw credentials out or anything, but I've got a masters in Middle Eastern studies, and spent time working in the region. I did take a few moments to read through the site, and although it does make an effort to provide factual information it is very clear by the author's writing on which side of the argument he stands...ergo, "bias".
There are plenty of informational sites out there; though as with this one, most will require sifting through a good deal of rhetoric to get to the meat.
Sorry if you thought I was upset. Not problem. I think the whole dialogue and the "Middle East" issues are interesting. I just wish I had the time to do the research. The site I found was just one of many that I searched for on the Web. The comment about being able to teach me was legit. I'd love to learn more and have spent a lot of time questioning folks like you who have the education and experience with the issue.
Thanks for the feedback.
D
dems4me
Guest
vraiblonde said:
I don't really understand it either... also, I have to think that for the most part these settlers knew what they were getting into.. .I mean really, out of all places in the world or near and around Isreal to peacefully live and coexist... is "lets move into the Gaza Strip" the first place you'd think of? Especially given its years of violence track record? Although it belonged to Isreal for 37 (?) years... doesn't one get tired of the mortors, bullets flying and bombs through the years?
I think to some degree the new settlers had to expect some sort of strife along the way, albeit Isreali or Pallestinian :shrug:
Also, and maybe unrelated, I learned that the Gaza Strip is not all that big... its only 8 miles long and about a football field and a half wide... I had no idea it was such a small parcel of land that all these people insisted on trying to move in and settle and live on and then try to kill each other over.
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Making an analogy, is what you were doing? Okay, if you say so.vraiblonde said:
But if you would like to call me a bigot because you have no rational defense of the Palestinians other than your emotional silliness, please feel free.
Emotional silliness? Yeah, those damn international laws and agreements, like the UN Charter that member countries are bound to adhere to, are so emotional and not based on civility or how the nations have agreed to interact. What the hell was I thinking?
