Gospel of Inclusion.

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You have to have both. Read James 2:26

How about Romans 3:27-30

What this means is it doesn't matter what you do if you don't have faith; a belief in Christ; be born again.

Someone that cares is not repulsed. Someone that cares does not place themselves above others as you have:

This is an arrogant and self-serving mentality that shows very little care, if any.

It is okay by me if you believe that way as it is all irrelevant to the point.

Sure people need to do right in this world but most people are lost and do not even know what right from wrong is.

So a few exceptional persons will do right and like a shephard will lead the ignorant sheep into a better place.

Every person will go through the fire of God to get clean and purified.

And on Judgement Day the truth will be known and everyone will believe then and everyone gets saved.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Rock on. Fire is a possitive symbol for the Holy Spirit and fire stands for the word of God and fire never ever means torturing people in a Hell because God loves His enemies and love does not ever means burn for all eternity link HERE.

Still telling lies. While fire is a symbol of the Holy Spirit it is not used in that way when the lake of fire is written about in the Bible.

God sent Jesus with a wonderful message of redemption and forgiveness and salvation for all of mankind.

Redemption and forgiveness for all those who believe and accept. It is not blanket coverage.

Not even one nasty rotten sheep will be left or lost as we all will be saved unconditionally.

Wrong.

Even if you do call it "death of the soul" or "dead to God" the Apostle Paul in the Bible called it "dead to sin" and ONLY eternal life comes otherwise link HERE.

The "second death" in the "lake of fire" means "death to sin" and thereafter salvation for the worst of the worst sinners so then everybody gets saved.

No. "Lake of fire" does not mean "death to sin" and if you could read with a modicum of understanding you would know that. Quit posting lies.

 

[2ndAmendment]

You post like a spoiled pampered brat.

Christ died on the cross, so you think your Christians are to miss out on that kind of fun? I say not.

Life is hard on everybody and in the next life it will be even harder.

You ask for a "reward" in Heaven, there is no reward, no prize, we are only to get more living.

Everlasting life is an adventure, and drama, and a lot of hard work, and that is the reward - we get more and more stuff to do.

It is like a child growing up, and expecting that becoming an adult then life gets easier, and it does not.

As an adult the child must mature and life gets more complicated and more challenging and far more demanding.

Mankind are just children now, and on Judgement Day we grow up fast, and for those of us that prepare now will lead the way.

You are the arrogant brat.

And there will be no growing on Judgment Day. The time of growth and believing will be over; those subject to the judgment will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity.

You are so out of touch with reality I doubt you could lead anyone anywhere.

 

[2ndAmendment]

....

Everybody gets saved on the great Judgement Day. Even Satan the Devil gets saved in the end.

Such as human demons like Adolf Hitler, then once the power is taken away from Satan and taken away from evil acting people - then they become harmless and God does love His enemies, link HERE.

They will still be upset and weeping with nashing of teeth for a long while but eventually it will work out fine.

LIES!

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
I tell you and all my choice, that I will burn in Hell with my comrades before I would ever bow to a tyrant and monster of a God as Orthodoxy claims.

You may get that chance if you keep telling lies.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So I guess this will be another surprise waiting for your kind.

So you are of the Orthodox belief in a Heaven of bliss and do nothing for all eternity while others burn in Hell and praise your God.

My God gives me an exciting life now, and promises of adventures in the next life, and no bliss for me.
I know and this happens to me a lot.

It just feels so repulsive for me to talk down to others that I do not do that very often. :shrug:

I guarantee you are not talking down to anyone. Everyone realizes you are mentally deluded and operate in a haze of confusion. You are only superior in your own mind, but your ignorance of the Bible, Truth, God's Laws, and even man's laws is evident to all who have ever read your posts.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I have heard that claim a lot lately about being "separated from God" and it is impossible to be correct or for it to happen.

If one sparrow (bird) falls to the ground then God knows it, link HERE, and we are more valuable than birds.

Our very life and heart beat and breath of air are all from God and there is no such thing as being separate from God.

No one can be lost in "Hell" or lost (separated) from God by sin or by anything.

Perhaps the mistake comes from the Orthodox belief that one accepts Jesus as their savior and that starts a relationship with God and that misses the reality.

Everybody already has a personal relationship with the real God whether anyone likes it or not.

It is just that some people have a negative relationship, or a shallow relationship with God, but everyone is connected to the real God and it is totally impossible to be separate or separated from the truth which is God.

We people do not have any choice if we want it or not, or if one accepts it or not.

No one is left out, no one is lost, and everyone gets saved.

No one is not loved by God, and God does know even when a sparrow falls. But, just as a father loves his son as he dies in the gas chamber for disobeying man's law, God will righteously judge those that do not accept His gift of salvation in this life and they will be cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 13:24-30, 13:36-43

24Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.

25"But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.

26"But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.

27"The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'

28"And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?'

29"But he said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.

30'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

...

36Then He left the crowds and went into the house And His disciples came to Him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."

37And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,

38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

40"So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

41"The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

42and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

43"Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father He who has ears, let him hear.

Better stop lying Jimmy. Seems you may be gathered with the tares if you don't find the Truth.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
And on Judgement Day the truth will be known and everyone will believe then and everyone gets saved.

Judgment Day is too late for salvation. Now is the acceptable time of salvation.

2 Corinthians 6:2for He says,
"AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU,
AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU."
Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION"--

Everyone does not get saved.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

LIES!

I never lie, and I stand by all of my post, and all of mine are true and mine are correct.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

Seems you may be gathered with the tares if you don't find the Truth.

I went to Church today and discused this very subject of the "tares" link HERE,

Matthew 13:40-43 KJV:

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
===

and concluded from that last verse #43 that it says "then" as in first the sinners are cleaned and purified in the fire and "then" they become righteous and everyone gets saved.

This was a ne revelation of truth today, in that every person must in one way or another go through the fire of God to get saved and as such everyone one of us must go through the righteous fires of God as each and all of us do indeed get saved in the end.

So 2A and I now might have a slight but twisted agreement here.

First the sinners burn and THEN they shine says Jesus in the text above.

 

[Marie]

Who are the elect and why does scripture mention them?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
H972<o></o>
בּחיר<o></o>
bâchîyr<o></o>
baw-kheer'<o></o>
From H977; select: - choose, chosen one, <o></o>
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Mat 19:28 - (7) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the (q) regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. <o></o>
(Not Everyone there is no provision for all!)<o></o>
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Mat 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and (l) shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. <o></o>
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Mat 24:31 - And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the (r) four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. <o></o>
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Luk 18:7 - And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though (d) he bear long with them? <o></o>
Rom 8:33 - (27) Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] (p) God that justifieth. <o></o>
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Rom 11:22 - (11) Behold therefore the (x) goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] (y) goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Note Some get cut off)<o></o>
<o></o>
NON-ELECT, n. [L. non, not, and elected.] One who is not elected or chosen to salvation.<o></o>
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Rom 11:25 - (13) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your (b) own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be (c) come in. <o></o>
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We talked about this also the heart being deceitfully wicked and believing our own lies!<o></o>
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1Co 1:18 - For the (m) preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the (n) power of God. <o></o>
Php 4:3 - And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the (c) book of life. <o></o>
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Why keep a book if everyones names in it?<o></o>
2Th 2:13 - (10) But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through (p) sanctification of the Spirit and (q) belief of the truth: <o></o>
(Not all believe, not all are chosen)<o></o>
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2Ti 2:19 - (11) Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that (g) nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (NOT Everyone)<o></o>
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Heb 9:28 - So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of (s) many;(16) and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. See the word many, not the word all!<o></o>
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1Pe 1:2 - (1) Elect according to the (a) foreknowledge of God the Father, through (b) sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. <o></o>
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[Marie]

I went to Church today and discused this very subject of the "tares" link HERE,

Mat 13:3 And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
Mat 13:4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. <o></o>
Mat 13:5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, <o></o>
Mat 13:6 but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. <o></o>
Mat 13:7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. <o></o>
Mat 13:8 Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. <o></o>
Mat 13:9 He who has ears, let him hear." <o></o>
Mat 13:10 Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?" <o></o>
Mat 13:11 And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. <o></o>
Mat 13:12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. <o></o>
Mat 13:13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. <o></o>
Mat 13:14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. <o></o>
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.' <o></o>
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. <o></o>
Mat 13:17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
<o></o>
Why Discus those blinded and deaf to the truth? Why mention that all but one type fall away? These represent different type of people claiming the name of Christ. Only one is the true Christian that was known to him ( the elect) before the foundation of the world the rest are posers!
<o></o>

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

I say we need to try to remain non violent here.

I also say that Jesus was and is non-violent and Jesus will always be non violent.

In the Bible violence and evil are synonymous link HERE.

The concept of "Hell" means committing a giant act of violence against our fellow man, and so Hell is the opposite of Jesus' message.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

I went to Church today and discused this very subject of the "tares" link HERE,

Matthew 13:40-43 KJV:

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
===

and concluded from that last verse #43 that it says "then" as in first the sinners are cleaned and purified in the fire and "then" they become righteous and everyone gets saved.

This was a ne revelation of truth today, in that every person must in one way or another go through the fire of God to get saved and as such everyone one of us must go through the righteous fires of God as each and all of us do indeed get saved in the end.

So 2A and I now might have a slight but twisted agreement here.

First the sinners burn and THEN they shine says Jesus in the text above.

I feel I must add to the message above since it is such a powerful revelation.

The word "then" in verse 43 means "there-after" as in first the sins are burned and there-after (then) comes the righteous person out of that purifying fire.

And see that in verse 42 it says "furnace of fire" while the Book of Revelations calls it the "lake of fire" because "fire" means the cleaning of the Holy Spirit and the "furnace or lake" have little meaning at all.

In fact if Jesus was actually talking about burning people in the Orthodox version of "Hell" (which is not real) then Jesus might have said instead of "tares in a funace" He would more certainly have said that people absolutely must do exactly as He commands or else He would torture and torment us all in real flames of real fire - but Jesus did not say that at all.

Jesus told us to love our enemies just like the Father God does link HERE and not burn people in torturous fire for ever and ever.

So here is the hard proof from Jesus and the Bible that everybody gets saved whether anyone likes it or not.

 

[wineo]

With all your knowledge and self education, why don't you have a job? Seems you are capeable enough to have one.

God dosen't like lazy or moochers either. You suck the system dry with your disability, which you don't have, since you can type, and preach why not work for the lord, and get off these forums.

 

[PsyOps]

I say we need to try to remain non violent here.

I also say that Jesus was and is non-violent and Jesus will always be non violent.

In the Bible violence and evil are synonymous link HERE.

The concept of "Hell" means committing a giant act of violence against our fellow man, and so Hell is the opposite of Jesus' message.

Throughout the Bible God has used man to go to war for Him. God has destroyed cities (i.e. Sodom and Gomorrah) in very violent ways. God destroyed the entire world with a flood. Can't get more violent than that. Revelations (which you have admitted has no credibility) is a book revolving around the violent end of this world. Jesus used violence to drive the merchants from His temple. God is the final judge and will not hesitate to cleanse His creation through whatever means He sees fit (and He has ascribed His means clearly in the Bible).

You are in denial of these facts because you want to fit God into your little convenient mold. A mold that allows you to continue living whatever sort of lifestyle you are living while accepting belief systems (life Islam, Satanism and Atheism) that stand contrary to the God Yahweh, Jehovah, the God of the living Christ Jesus. You have rejected the book Revelation, you have admitted you do not believe we have a soul, you believe everyone gets saved even though you wrote this:

Those that do not seek out the full truths will indeed be left behind in darkness, and will be greatly surprised on our Judgement Day.

You do not believe the Bible is the word of God:

Claiming the Bible is the "word of God" as 2A does above and it is NOT.

You falsely believe that even Satan gets saved:

Even Satan the Devil gets saved in the end.

When it's clear he does not:

The Devil who had led them astray was thrown into the pool of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever... Rev 20:10

You take every possible stance to ensure your soul is saved. It's a stance of convenience for your sake. Your opinion on this issue only serves you. It does not serve the truth. You're not interested in the truth, you are interested in what will satisfy your conscience.

I think I have provided enough that shows your unstable and inconsistent view on the Bible; which you will obviously deny. But it is what it is.

Bye Bye

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

With all your knowledge and self education, why don't you have a job? Seems you are capeable enough to have one.

God dosen't like lazy or moochers either. You suck the system dry with your disability, which you don't have, since you can type, and preach why not work for the lord, and get off these forums.

I am trying to get a job as the new US Congress person for 5th District.

Just 50.1 % and I win, so vote for me and then I will be closer to having a job.

And 2 of my 3 issues for disability came from job related injuries.

I will probably need some provisions even if I get elected because I will still be injured and disabled even if I become a Congress Representative.

This Forum is nothing like an actual job, but I do get to "preach for God" on here.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

I think I have provided enough that shows your unstable and inconsistent view on the Bible; which you will obviously deny. But it is what it is.

Bye Bye

I am happy with my beliefs as I see mine are the correct and true interpretation.

You keep your beliefs and that works for me.

I am not really trying to convert you or anyone else.

But I do offer the real correct interpretation of God and the scriptures for anyone that wants more.

 

[Marie]

You know we have no right to get upset with JPC, you wouldnt fault a blind man for being blind or a deaf man for being deaf. So we shouldnt fault him, but we do still need to correct his false statements that may lead others astray.

I guess we also need to remember that God used both Pharaoh and Nebakanezer to accompolish his will without either of them ever intending to serve God, perhaps thats JPC lot to spread falsehoods that others correct so the gospel can be told correctly to those that have a heart thats open to the truth.

It's very disapointing not to be able to get through to him, but its not our job but the work of the Holly Spirit which may or may not ever happen. The best we can do is pray for him that God will soften his heart and open his eyes to the truth.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

You know we have no right to get upset with JPC, you wouldnt fault a blind man for being blind or a deaf man for being deaf. So we shouldnt fault him, but we do still need to correct his false statements that may lead others astray.

But you do accept that the spiritually blind and deaf and those giving false statements and leading others astray - such one(s) must burn in the pits of Hell.

If that is not getting "upset" or particlarly "faulting" them (and me) by condemning to Hell, then it is just cold blooded hatred.

The best we can do is pray for him that God will soften his heart and open his eyes to the truth.

But I do know the Orthodox version of "truth".

That Jesus and the saints and believers are to go to happiness and bliss in Heaven, while us sinners and defiant ones burn in the fires of Hell.

My eyes are wide open to that and I reject it completely. And I honestly denounce it all as false and incorrect.

Everybody gets saved and not even one rotten awful sinner gets lost.