Gospel of Inclusion.

[fredcaudle]

ummm if they never changed in meaning then they wouldn't be different translations.

I've heard many statements... but your's takes the cake. So, Koreans speak English? How about any other languages? Are we so centered on English that we must have everyone in the world speak as King James era people?????

Yeah, ok.. so they are written differently... amazing how Jesus stays exactly the same in all of them though. Amazing how the content never changes...

 

[camily]

I've heard many statements... but your's takes the cake. So, Koreans speak English? How about any other languages? Are we so centered on English that we must have everyone in the world speak as King James era people?????

Yeah, ok.. so they are written differently... amazing how Jesus stays exactly the same in all of them though. Amazing how the content never changes...

Hi Fred!
Friday night and we're here. Sad, sad lives I tell ya'. It didn't always be this way. Actually, that's a good thing!

 

[JPC sr]

Ferrous Canus, and Stupidus Giganticus.

On Judgement Day the conditions for humanity will be greatly improved. Here's a picture of judgment day (I know, just written by men who were religious and trying to dupe everyone...)

I agree, and I sympathize, as I must deal with that too.

Revelation 20:11-15 (NIV) ... 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

See that "the sea" gave up its "dead" like people were in the "sea" and not in "hell or Heaven" and it says "Hades" meaning the grave as in "death and Hades [the grave] gave up their dead" not their living in torture as prisoners of an evil God.

The resurection means from the "dead" and not resurected from a firey hell.

Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

It says "death and Hell" are in the fire but not burning people being tortured.

The second death means dead to sin, link HERE.

And dead to sin, link HERE.

Sin causes death and not torture in a hell fire, link HERE and the free gift is eternal life not eternal torture in hell.

Rev 20:15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelations 20:14-15 link HERE tells that death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire and not people.

Death is the final enemy destroyed = death where is thy sting link HERE.

Notice it says on that Day we shall ALL be changed, not some but ALL.

 

[fredcaudle]

Hi Fred!
Friday night and we're here. Sad, sad lives I tell ya'. It didn't always be this way. Actually, that's a good thing!

Very sad... and to think... I must go to a birthday party tonight and here I sit!

 

[fredcaudle]

I agree, and I sympathize, as I must deal with that too.
See that "the sea" gave up its "dead" like people were in the "sea" and not in "hell or Heaven" and it says "Hades" meaning the grave as in "death and Hades [the grave] gave up their dead" not their living in torture as prisoners of an evil God.

The resurection means from the "dead" and not resurected from a firey hell.
It says "death and Hell" are in the fire but not burning people being tortured.

The second death means dead to sin, link HERE.

And dead to sin, link HERE.

Sin causes death and not torture in a hell fire, link HERE and the free gift is eternal life not eternal torture in hell. Revelations 20:14-15 link HERE tells that death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire and not people.

Death is the final enemy destroyed = death where is thy sting link HERE.

Notice it says on that Day we shall ALL be changed, not some but ALL.

Verse 15... If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life (interesting book, not book of dead), he (i.e. anyone not found in the book of life) was thrown into the lake of fire.

Second death means eternal separation from God the Father. We are all assigned to die once for sin (wages of sin is death), but Jesus paid the penalty of sin (death) and so those who profess (believe) in His name will not suffer eternal death. (Name is in Book of Life when you profess (believe) in the name of Jesus).

Again, God is Holy... those who sow unholiness and never ask for forgiveness and repent reap no part of a Holy God.

 

[godsbutterfly]

I agree, and I sympathize, as I must deal with that too.
See that "the sea" gave up its "dead" like people were in the "sea" and not in "hell or Heaven" and it says "Hades" meaning the grave as in "death and Hades [the grave] gave up their dead" not their living in torture as prisoners of an evil God.

The resurection means from the "dead" and not resurected from a firey hell.
It says "death and Hell" are in the fire but not burning people being tortured.

The second death means dead to sin, link HERE.

And dead to sin, link HERE.

Sin causes death and not torture in a hell fire, link HERE and the free gift is eternal life not eternal torture in hell. Revelations 20:14-15 link HERE tells that death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire and not people.

Death is the final enemy destroyed = death where is thy sting link HERE.

Notice it says on that Day we shall ALL be changed, not some but ALL.

I certainly don't want to seem rude but generally speaking doesn't fire burn (unless it's like Moses and the burning bush) and wouldn't continually being burned hurt? I would think it would be excruciating pain. I knew someone who suffered severe burns on her face and arms and she was in agony.
As for all being changed - not all change is positive!
For me it is still a matter of God said it and I believe it. You cannot have an erasable Bible where you pick and choose only certain parts of it to suit yourself and make your point. God, by his own words, is a jealous God and that means it is all or nothing.

 

[JPC sr]

Ferrous Canus, and Stupidus Giganticus.

Verse 15... If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life (interesting book, not book of dead), he (i.e. anyone not found in the book of life) was thrown into the lake of fire.

Second death means eternal separation from God the Father. We are all assigned to die once for sin (wages of sin is death), but Jesus paid the penalty of sin (death) and so those who profess (believe) in His name will not suffer eternal death. (Name is in Book of Life when you profess (believe) in the name of Jesus).

Again, God is Holy... those who sow unholiness and never ask for forgiveness and repent reap no part of a Holy God.

Well I gave scripture text and link after text after link and more,

while you preach the traditional message with nothing to back it up.

So it boils down to those of us that want the deeper truths and not the comfortable truths.

The Bible says the second death means "death to sin" (see my many links in previous post) and here this poster says second death means "eternal separation" but death does not mean torture in hell as that would be living and not dead.

And "wages of sin is death" not toture in hell.

And "Book of life" not of death.

To believe as ye are told is what traditional Christianity is.

But the scriptures tells us a much better story indeed.

 

[JPC sr]

Ferrous Canus, and Stupidus Giganticus.

I certainly don't want to seem rude but generally speaking doesn't fire burn (unless it's like Moses and the burning bush) and wouldn't continually being burned hurt? I would think it would be excruciating pain.

Natural fire burns but spiritual fire purifies.

And the burning bush of Moses that did not burn is a vivid example of Godly fire that does not burn.

For me it is still a matter of God said it and I believe it. You cannot have an erasable Bible where you pick and choose only certain parts of it to suit yourself and make your point. God, by his own words, is a jealous God and that means it is all or nothing.

If you were preaching Bible instead of Christian tradition then that might be true.

But the Bible does not say what Christian tradition is claiming.

Therefore your words are wrong too, because you put your faith in what other people say instead of seeking the truth thyself.

 

[tommyjones]

I've heard many statements... but your's takes the cake. So, Koreans speak English? How about any other languages? Are we so centered on English that we must have everyone in the world speak as King James era people?????

Yeah, ok.. so they are written differently... amazing how Jesus stays exactly the same in all of them though. Amazing how the content never changes...

freddy, you have got to realize that the personn who translated the KJV did so to make the king happy and to make his interpretation THE interpretation.

i mean think about it

 

[godsbutterfly]

Natural fire burns but spiritual fire purifies.

And the burning bush of Moses that did not burn is a vivid example of Godly fire that does not burn. If you were preaching Bible instead of Christian tradition then that might be true.

But the Bible does not say what Christian tradition is claiming.

Therefore your words are wrong too, because you put your faith in what other people say instead of seeking the truth thyself.

I am well acquainted with Holy Ghost Fire having experienced it on numerous occasion myself. I know of it's cleansing power and of the cleansing power of the blood of Jesus Christ. I use God's Butterfly because I know he changed my life from what it was to something good. By the way - how my life changed and why is absolutely not open to debate nor would I expect anyone else's to be unless they volunteered it. I am not perfect but I am living my life the best I can in accordance with what God's Word says so that when my life here on Earth is over I can live eternally in Heaven with Jesus Christ. That's what I believe and I can't make anybody else believe as I believe - especially not you. On the other hand - nobody - especially not you - can make me believe Hell is not the Lake of Fire and that I am misguided in the Rapture and all that will happen in the end times.

 

[fredcaudle]

Well I gave scripture text and link after text after link and more,

while you preach the traditional message with nothing to back it up.

So it boils down to those of us that want the deeper truths and not the comfortable truths.

The Bible says the second death means "death to sin" (see my many links in previous post) and here this poster says second death means "eternal separation" but death does not mean torture in hell as that would be living and not dead.

And "wages of sin is death" not toture in hell.

And "Book of life" not of death.

To believe as ye are told is what traditional Christianity is.

But the scriptures tells us a much better story indeed.

So it boils down to those of us that want the deeper truths and not the comfortable truths.

Hell is uncomfortable to many a folk... soft sell and candy food like Disney land sells that we "will live happily ever after" regardless of our actions down here is nonsense...

Deeper truths... links are fine... link up to the Bible it stands on its own.

 

[fredcaudle]

freddy, you have got to realize that the personn who translated the KJV did so to make the king happy and to make his interpretation THE interpretation.

i mean think about it

Don't know who 'freddy' is... I assume you are speaking to me?

Sure it made the king happy... that was good. It also runs parallel to the Greek. It also agrees with the English versions prior to King James. It also agrees with the Septuagint. The king was happy... So was the King who's Spirit told the story.

So, it was a "person" who 'translated' the KJV? And did this "person" use any manuscripts or originals to 'translate'?

 

[JPC sr]

Ferrous Canus, and Stupidus Giganticus.

I found a couple links that show Bible errors so here they are:

1) Additions and omissions of the synoptic gospels, link HERE.

2) Spurious changes to the Bible, link HERE.

I took these links from another thread so I must give it link HERE.

And an old reliable info on the synoptic problem of the Gospels, link HERE.

 

[Giantone]

I found a couple links that show Bible errors so here they are:

1) Additions and omissions of the synoptic gospels, link HERE.

2) Spurious changes to the Bible, link HERE.

I took these links from another thread so I must give it link HERE.

And an old reliable info on the synoptic problem of the Gospels, link HERE.

Shut up ....... stupid.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I've sat out of this one too long. Fred & godsbutterfly, you' might want to know that you're in a no win forum. JPC can't see the truth and the other's refuse to see it. They all have been told repeatedly, that the Bible is not on trial here but that we all are. On judgment day, their paisley agruments against the Book will not stand up. I hope they will see & accept that before The Day. This silly notion that, because the Bible was written by man it's less credible, is sooo weak and shows NO faith in God's power; (but then they don't believe in Him anyhow so therein lies the root of their false notions). They have been told the answers but won't accept them. Anyone wanting to learn something would normally ask questions and then say "I see that or I don't". They're already accountable, so save your typing fingers.
JPC, AGAIN, is wrong on this Synoptic Gospel issue. There is nothing that needs to be "added or removed" from them. When 4 different people tell the same story, it will be written in different ways so as to show that there was no collusion between the authors. If they were supposed to say the exact same thing, 3 of them wouldn't have been needed.
As far as King James goes, you're right. I can't see why anyone in 2007 keeps quoting the Bible in that archaic Shakespearean wording. There's nothing wrong with using SOME modern translations of the Bible today.
To get back on topic, there is NO gospel of inclusion in the Bible. Some make it, many don't. JPC's misinterpretation of Romans 14 & Philippians 2 (every knee bow & tongue confess...) doesn't change God's message of judgment in Matthew 7 v 14.

 

[godsbutterfly]

I've sat out of this one too long. Fred & godsbutterfly, you' might want to know that you're in a no win forum. JPC can't see the truth and the other's refuse to see it. They all have been told repeatedly, that the Bible is not on trial here but that we all are. On judgment day, their paisley agruments against the Book will not stand up. I hope they will see & accept that before The Day. This silly notion that, because the Bible was written by man it's less credible, is sooo weak and shows NO faith in God's power; (but then they don't believe in Him anyhow so therein lies the root of their false notions). They have been told the answers but won't accept them. Anyone wanting to learn something would normally ask questions and then say "I see that or I don't". They're already accountable, so save your typing fingers.
JPC, AGAIN, is wrong on this Synoptic Gospel issue. There is nothing that needs to be "added or removed" from them. When 4 different people tell the same story, it will be written in different ways so as to show that there was no collusion between the authors. If they were supposed to say the exact same thing, 3 of them wouldn't have been needed.
As far as King James goes, you're right. I can't see why anyone in 2007 keeps quoting the Bible in that archaic Shakespearean wording. There's nothing wrong with using SOME modern translations of the Bible today.
To get back on topic, there is NO gospel of inclusion in the Bible. Some make it, many don't. JPC's misinterpretation of Romans 14 & Philippians 2 (every knee bow & tongue confess...) doesn't change God's message of judgment in Matthew 7 v 14.

I agree with you and actually I am going to be doing some praying that JPC in particular gets what amounts to a "Road to Damascus" experience before he ends up literally Dead Wrong.

 

[JPC sr]

Ferrous Canus, and Stupidus Giganticus.

Talking to yourself?

I heard and saw on a recent PBS Bill Moyer talking to Thomas Cahill link HERE and Cahill told of another Bible scholar supposition that Abraham (almost) sacrifice of Isaac link HERE marked the end of human sacrifice by the Hebrews.

In old history human sacrifice was in many if not most and maybe all human cultures and that is why the Bible shows as if it were a normal happening and the exception and adnormal occurance being that God stopped it and said that He God would provide the "lamb" sacrifice (Jesus Christ) link HERE and so at that time the practice of human sacrifice was stopped by the Hebrews and that is a big part of the untold message in that Bible account.

The Bible and history scholars and research are brillient and we need such insight if we want to learn the deeper truths.

Those that do not seek out the full truths will indeed be left behind in darkness, and will be greatly surprised on our Judgement Day.

 

[somdprincess]

Yes, and "hell" meant the grave.

Christ died on the cross and spent 3 days and 3 nights in the grave dead and then rose from the dead.

If Christ did not die then our savation is void and vain, link HERE.
That is just mixed up Christian traditions but not Bible text.

The "sons of God" is just a fancy way of saying "men" with the daughters, link HERE

That is also where people stopped living so long as He changed it to 120 years old (verse 3) and it slowly decreased to 120 max.

That is why one generation is 120 years per the Bible definition of generation. Hell means the grave and Christ was talking about death which mankind is so afraid of.

Jesus told and demonstrated that we do not need to fear death. Christian tradition teaches that but none of it is from the Bible and it is not correct. According to the Bible God did not like giving His son but it was necessary because it was the only way to reconcile mankind to God.

God gives salvation as a free gift but not a cheap gift because it cost a fortune in order to give it away for free.

If Christ had failed then God would have been a fraud and His word would have been worthless. That text is a two edged sword that cuts both ways, link HERE.

It also says that those that do not come to Him is because He does not draw them or enable the people link HERE.

Therefore if anyone does not get saved then is would be a sin by God in dooming the people to hell.

So on Judgement Day every knee shall bow and confess and everyone does get saved, link HERE.

The Bible and God has a great plan with a happy ending for all.

You are weird, weird and scary.

 

[JPC sr]

Ferrous Canus, and Stupidus Giganticus.

You are weird, weird and scary.

Religion is scary to most people,

and the messages of the Bible are weird by any honest perspective.

So I am agreeing with you that I probably am weird and scary in many ways.

In fact I apreciate your honesty and how you express your feelings so matter-of-factly.

It appears to me that this is one of the great advantages of the Internet Forum,

that most posters are annonymous while my identity is plainly told and on the Internet there is no intimidations by threats or violence,

so one can give beliefs and express one-self here while such communications do not much happen in real company since society is so tense.

My final point being is that even though I may be weird and scary - at the same time I am completely harmless.

 

[somdprincess]

Religion is scary to most people,

and the messages of the Bible are weird by any honest perspective.

So I am agreeing with you that I probably am weird and scary in many ways.

In fact I apreciate your honesty and how you express your feelings so matter-of-factly.

It appears to me that this is one of the great advantages of the Internet Forum,

that most posters are annonymous while my identity is plainly told and on the Internet there is no intimidations by threats or violence,

so one can give beliefs and express one-self here while such communications do not much happen in real company since society is so tense.

My final point being is that even though I may be weird and scary - at the same time I am completely harmless.

well.........thats good to know.....