Govt Work at Home May Be Over

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
When the base has had delayed openings and said ok everyone show up at 9am we had huge traffic jams. I live close enough I can hear the national anthem every morning at my house and it took me an hour to get into work.
I have to think that "everybody, back in the office, 8-6 (10 hrs?) 5 days a week" was a generic way of saying, ok, all those people you sent home for COVID, they come back now.

I have absolutely no knowledge of the rest of government - but since COVID ended, it seems hard to believe anyone is still out. I do know that the numbers being promoted are utterly false - most government workers aren't even eligible for telework, and most that do, come in at least a little.

My agency decided - ok, since most everyone is out - and we have more agencies MOVING in to a crowded space - let's take this opportunity to COMPLETELY RENOVATE a two million and a half square foot complex - to be designed for telework - because the pre-COVID crowding was out of control. So yeah - it WAS mostly empty for a long time, but that's because floor after floor were all being renovated.
 

OccamsRazor

Well-Known Member
I have absolutely no knowledge of the rest of government - but since COVID ended, it seems hard to believe anyone is still out. I do know that the numbers being promoted are utterly false - most government workers aren't even eligible for telework, and most that do, come in at least a little.
Most admin, financial, clerical, and logistical personnel are on telework. How many of those work for the GOV?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Most admin, financial, clerical, and logistical personnel are on telework. How many of those work for the GOV?
When you say most, do you mean, across all federal agencies? Or just say, locally - PAX etc.?

I can't speak for any of that. I do know that the IRS had the bulk of their HQ employees on remote work dating a good ten year's prior to COVID. Other than that - I have no idea.

I know that several of my friends who work military or related agencies in the DC area (say, anti-terrorist or intelligence, for example) - a lot say their admin and clerical work is outsourced. As in, remote contract work. One friend was adamant about it - she'd say, what does all that have to do with the mission of (her government agency). But that's been the situation from at least twenty years ago or more.
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
Id love to see the unintended consequences of setting my schedule to start at 0800.
What do they call that? Malicious compliance?

They tried that with me. My productivity went down by about a third. After that, they left me alone and stopped insisting that I work "core hours" instead of the 05:00 - 16:00 I was ordinarily working, plus nights, weekends, and parts of some holidays.

And yeah, I did take a half hour to about 45 minute lunch; getting away from the desk for a while and going for a walk or bike ride sometimes.
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
I think lost in all of this telework talk is the fact that the douge brothers have also proposed having government workers in the building from 8-6. Effectively ending flex schedules. I would think that screws a lot more people than asking them to come into the office. Some people may work the 6-2:30 shift and pick their kids up from school, others may take their kids to school and work a later 9-5:30 shift. Eliminating flex time really disrupts people's lives.

But the douge brothers don't really care about people's lives, they want them to quit and that will probably work. The part they don't understand is that they lose just as many good people as they do dead wood by doing things like that. Not to mention that most employees appreciate work places that make allowances to make their lives easier and are more inclined to work harder to make their employer a success. Do the hard work and get rid of the dead wood, get rid of the people who abuse the system, but keep the people who actually are contributors. That's what makes successful operations. Elon Musk does not care about that. He has said he expects his Tesla employees to work 80+ hours per week. He's on record as praising Chinese workers who slept in his factories to be at work longer while criticizing American workers as not wanting to work at all. He now wants to stamp that imprint on federal government workers. It will cut the federal work force, but it is doubtful that it will make it more efficient which is really supposed to be the mission of DOGE.
Like I've stated often enough, you can't get rid of the real dead wood because of EEO, DEI, and all that. We've all told stories of people, even contractors, who should have gotten bounced, but instead, were given a promotion, a medal, and an atta-dumb-boy/girl so they could get rid of them. Okay not the contractors. Their companies were told "We think so-and-so would be a better fit somewhere else. You know, where they don't mind if they sell cosmetics and tupperware online during work hours."

But yeah, watching useless "secretaries" who also spent most of their days making money on the side get promoted to GS-13 when it took threatening to leave for me to get promoted, even though the real intent was to get rid of the aforementioned secretary (which everyone I know was glad of), really chapped my hide.
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
To be fair before COVID BFMs never seemed to be in the office either, I always joked they always seemed to be on vacation.
On the program office level, not so much. Any of them that worked in the IPT, yeah, SOP seemed to be work long enough to go on vacation.

Oh, and they always seemed to go on vacay at the same time. I email or call Jane Doe, and her out-of-office says, in part "my alternate is Brian Jones."

So, I call or email Brian and his O-o-O says "my alternate is Jane Doe."

Then, I call somebody in 6.6 to find out who Jane and Brian's boss is, only to find out that Mary Smith is out, and to please get a hold of Jane or Brian.

Not only does the left hand not know what the right hand is going, but apparently, neither does the brain.

And the 2.4 folks (contracts folks for "stuff") are almost as bad.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
More hard truth, I know you bootlickers love your billionaires but most Americans are sick of them


People who make $10M a year are either incredibly valuable workers, who could make similar money elsewhere, or they are at the top of the food chain for a fairly large corporation, and they likely get a good portion of their compensation in stock which will NEVER be taxes at 50%.

The only thing passing this type of tax would do is chase away the most skilled workers and force CEOs further into obfuscating their income.
 

limblips

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Like I've stated often enough, you can't get rid of the real dead wood because of EEO, DEI, and all that. We've all told stories of people, even contractors, who should have gotten bounced, but instead, were given a promotion, a medal, and an atta-dumb-boy/girl so they could get rid of them. Okay not the contractors. Their companies were told "We think so-and-so would be a better fit somewhere else. You know, where they don't mind if they sell cosmetics and tupperware online during work hours."

But yeah, watching useless "secretaries" who also spent most of their days making money on the side get promoted to GS-13 when it took threatening to leave for me to get promoted, even though the real intent was to get rid of the aforementioned secretary (which everyone I know was glad of), really chapped my hide.
There was one that sold real estate while at work. Was quite successful at it too. Had many "off station" afternoon meetings.
 
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SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
There was one that sold real estate while at work. Was quite successful at it too. Had many "off station" afternoon meetings.
And this is one of the things that pisses me off, because it paints all federal workers with this brush - and because since we're limited in staff - the people who aren't doing this crap have to do THEIR job, too.

I remember we had a secretary like you described - got her Bible degree while studying at work and taking her classes online. We actually held a party for her - at work. I couldn't believe it. VERY OFTEN I would hand her things like my travel itinerary and she'd look at me like what is this? and I'd say I need the paperwork and reservations for travel.

"Why can't YOU DO IT?".
I wanted to say, because it's your damned job and if you didn't spend all morning at the cafeteria eating breakfast and hanging out with your girlfriends, you might be able to DO it.

I just pivoted and explained how my workload had exploded on the project I was on, and I just couldn't do it.

"Ok, but JUST THIS ONE TIME".

She'd been getting away with it for so long, she had no idea how to do work. I talked to our mutual boss - and he said he'd been trying to offload her for years, but admitted, he was just waiting for her to retire.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Our BFMS were always around. our lead BFM had them almost at parade ground levels of attendance and attentiveness. For a year and a half before COVID my seat was right in the middle of them. Great bunch, almost missed them as much as the team when we got sent home. They enjoyed having a sailor in their midst, I think. :) My problems a completely different set than theirs. :) Language a bit different as well.
 
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LightRoasted

If I may ...
For your consideration ...


Had to add this video as well . . . .

Btw, if a federal employee's wages weren't reduced, say 15%-20%, to account for what should have been less wages for not having to go to the office, then they have been milking the system. Should have saved all that money that used to go to driving to work, lunches, etc..

 
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OccamsRazor

Well-Known Member
Btw, if a federal employee's wages weren't reduced, say 15%-20%, to account for what should have been less wages for not having to go to the office, then they have been milking the system. Should have saved all that money that used to go to driving to work, lunches, etc..
From the people I have talked to who work on or support PAX, this was a point of contention for many. There was no incentive for the people deemed "necessary" to be in-office every day. Mostly during the height of COVID.
Gas, food, travel expenses, and most of all... child care. Add all of that up and it is THOUSANDS saved per year. Apparently, any time it was brought up to the higher-ups.. it was either deflected or just flat out ignored. Not to mention the differences in compromising vulnerable family members. People who lived with the elderly. Too much risk for a portion of the workers and ZERO for others with no incentive.
 

StadEMS3

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
We moved into our new HQ a little after COVID started. I run the 24/7 Emergency Operations Center, so we have to report to work. Our building has been empty and less than 20% occupied since COVID restrictions were lifted. We have people who moved out of the NCR "teleworking" and was collecting DC pay in low cost of living areas. Some have been caught and are now getting their pay garnished for I've seen up to $700 a pay period. I see many offices with boxes from the move 5yrs ago still unpacked. Time to get back to work!

My brother who works for DHS has not set foot in his building since the start of COVID and moved to Texas to telework. Now he's freaking out since this administration is saying get back to the office., I love it! Plus I just sold my rental house that he was living in for the last 10yrs.
 
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SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
We moved into our new HQ at a little after COVID started. I run the 24/7 Emergency Operations Center, so we have to report to work. Our building has been empty and than 20% occupied since COVID restrictions were lifted. We have people who moved out of the NCR "teleworking" and was collecting DC pay in low cost of living areas. Some have been caught and are now getting their pay garnished for I'e seen up to $700 a pay period. I see many offices with boxes from the move 5yrs ago still unpacked. Time to get back to work!

My brother who works for DHS has not set foot in his building since the start of COVID and moved to Texas to telework. Now he's freaking out since adminstartion is saying get back to the office., I love it! Plus I just sold my rental house that he was living in for the last 10yrs.
We were just discussing this whole issue in one of our meetings today - and we mentioned we've been teleworking since 2015.
It had absolutely nothing to do with COVID - it was a space saving decision, since we were adding new agencies to an already overcrowded building.

My sister has been working at the same job for over twenty years - from the privacy of her home office. It's a small company and their "product" is electronic - so wasting money on an brick and mortar office would be stupid.

Most of the numbers cited by people like Joni Ernst are at best distortions - but otherwise - just wrong. The overwhelming majority of most federal workers are ineligible for telework - ever. For example, the 6% figure cited comes from an ONLINE SURVEY at Federal News Network where self-selecting respondents described their situation and they got 6338 responses. A survey made up of people clicking on a website. I don't need to tell you - that kind of statistic is less than worthless.

Critics of Ernst’s report are quick to point to a report on telework published by the White House Office of Management and Budget in August. According to this report, roughly half of the federal workforce is not even eligible for telework or remote work and therefore must report to work in person.

The OMB report states, “As of May 2024, approximately 50 percent of federal workers worked every day in roles that are not eligible for telework, including those who work onsite providing healthcare to our veterans, inspecting our food supply, and managing Federal natural resources. At the same time, telework-eligible personnel spent approximately 60 percent of regular, working hours in-person, at agency-assigned job sites.”



So - anything else? Yeah

The OMB report also includes these figures:
The federal government employed 2.28 million civilian personnel.
  • Of these 2.28 million personnel, the majority – 1.2 million or 54% – worked fully on-site,
    as their jobs require them to be physically present during all working hours.
  • The remaining 1.1 million or 46.4% of civilian personnel were telework-eligible.
  • Of the total 2.28 million personnel, 228 thousand or 10% of civilian personnel were in
    remote positions where there was no expectation that they worked in-person on any
    regular or recurring basis.
  • Among all federal employees, excluding remote workers that do not have a work-site to
    report to, 79.4% of regular, working hours were spent in-person.
  • Among the subset of federal workers that are telework-eligible, excluding remote
    workers, 61.2% of regular, working hours were spent in-person.

Bear in mind - "teleworking" is distinctly DIFFERENT from "remote working". Remote work means, away from the office, at all times. Teleworking means a hybrid of in person and at home work. A fraction telework - meaning they do report in person at least part of their pay period if not most.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

My thoughts are THIS -

If the problem IS - that you have slacking employees not doing their work - if you DON'T HAVE THE MEANS - or the will - to deal with them when they are full time in person, bringing them all back into the office won't do you any good. I've been with the federal government since the 80's - there have been people who are lazy and don't work hard before we even had computers or the Internet. And they got away with it, because no one ever did anything about it. If your objection is that people are being non-productive by being at home - well the ones who WORK are - but there will always be those who don't AS LONG AS the agency lacks to will to DO something.
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
We moved into our new HQ at a little after COVID started. I run the 24/7 Emergency Operations Center, so we have to report to work. Our building has been empty and than 20% occupied since COVID restrictions were lifted. We have people who moved out of the NCR "teleworking" and was collecting DC pay in low cost of living areas. Some have been caught and are now getting their pay garnished for I'e seen up to $700 a pay period. I see many offices with boxes from the move 5yrs ago still unpacked. Time to get back to work!

My brother who works for DHS has not set foot in his building since the start of COVID and moved to Texas to telework. Now he's freaking out since adminstartion is saying get back to the office., I love it! Plus I just sold my rental house that he was living in for the last 10yrs.
I know several people that some how got away with working from hundreds of miles away permanently. One is freaking out, its pretty funny. I really don't want those people back "in the office" though because they will call more meetings, and get involved in things simply to be involved and make my life more difficult. Working on-site has been so much better with a reduction in traffic, over crowded buildings back under capacity, etc. Teams meetings where I can just let it run in the background and do something else have made me more productive than sitting through a 2 hour meeting just to space out when people that like to hear themselves talk ramble on.
 
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