Gun Control

SurfaceTension

New Member
Hope this isn't drifting too far...

...But consider MD's concealed weapon policy as well. The logic is that Marylander lawmakers essentially do not believe that you have the right to carry the most effective tool to protect yourself. Yet, at the same time, they (the government/police) are not required to protect you from harm...You can not sue the government if you are raped/robbed/shot.

They mandate that you are unprotected, but deny responsibility if you are harmed and unable to protect yourself. Make sense? As Virginia (and most other states) are finding out, it does not.
 
Last edited:
With the exception of Froject Exile, what is the FIRST charge to be dropped by prosecutors in an attempt to get the scumbags to plead guilty? The gun charge. So instead of sending the felon back to jail for say 20 years for attempted armed robbery while in posession of a firearm by a felon, they send them away for 18 months for simple robbery. Which means that the scumbag is back on the streets in 12 months or less, and first stop is the local hoodlum selling stolen guns out of the back of his lowrider escalade.

Full Auto firearms and explosive devises are HEAVILY regulated. It is illegal for a person to own explosive devices like handgrenades and mortars. In order to own a full auto firearm, you first have to get a class III firearms permit ($500 application fee, license must be renewed every couple of years, unrestricted right for the ATF to search you house at any time to insure that you still have the weapon) and major anal exam of a background check (think security clearance investigation). Once you get your license, you then can go to any class III gun shop and purchase your class III weapon (full auto, suppressed or long gun w/ shorter than 18" barrel) for a MINIMUM of $4000. Saw some WWII German light machineguns at the Timonium gunshow a couple of weeks ago, bagain priced at $14,000.00.

You garden variety criminal is not going to be plunking down any $4000 for a gun. They will more likely get a $250 shotgun and cut the barrel down to where it just barely clears the magazine tube. Ofcourse, commiting a crime is illegal, using a firearm while doing so is illegal, cutting the barrel to shorter than 18" is illegal, so I REALLY doubt that a little thing like GUN CONTROL matters to the criminals. Except when they think about their victim. No need to worry about repercusions from the victim, since they are most likely a law abiding citizen, who doesn't own a gun.

When massive gun control laws are passed, the only result is an INCREASE in crimes. Look at Autralia. They banned ownersip of any semi-automatic firearm. Period. The owners had to turn them over to the Govt. for destruction. They couldn't even send them out of the country. The result of this idiotic action is that the violent crime rate in Australia skyrocketed. The only people with guns are the criminals now. The Bobbies (cops) in Britain have never been armed while on patrol. That is, not until about a year ago. After Britain passed super restrictive gun laws, the criminals started carrying (and using) guns more and more, and now the cops have had to start carrying them too.

Personally I have no problem with background checks on ALL gun purchases. I like what they do in PA (I think that is where I heard about this), you get your background check done and they issue you a "license" to purchase firearms. The license is good for like 5 years. Once you have the license, you no longer have to wait to make a purchase.

I have a MAJOR problem w/ gun registration. They don't make you register your baseball bats or kitchen knives do they?

I think that they should fine gun owners who do not report stolen firearms.

I think that all states should have "must issue" laws when it comes to CCW permits. If you can legally own a gun, you should be able to carry it.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Isn't it interesting the perceptions inflicted upon us by society? People are scared of guns. The average person who walked into your house and saw a pistol lying on the table would about have a heart attack. They wouldn't think twice about the toaster or the coffee pot, but boy that gun would get a reaction.

When I was a kid, nobody was afraid of firearms and it never occurred to anyone that some day they might be banned. Does anyone know the evolution of the gun paranoia?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
If you go to the CDC, you can find a web-based data driven table regarding injury and death in the nation, and you can go state by state. There you can get a beginning for data regarding gun deaths.

It's fairly consistent that about half of all firearm deaths are ruled as suicides. The US is pretty good about that. In other nations, when a family is killed by the father, and he kills himself, it's all ruled as suicide. Some refuse to report suicides, because they are considered dishonorable. Several Western nations with lower homicide rates than the US have 2-3 times the suicide rate, the only logical explanation being that many homicides are ruled that way because they are never solved.

But the demographics of gun death paint a skewed picture. Of the remaining homicides, the number is very high for males between 15-25, and it is also very high for different ethnic groups in this age range. Without proper data from the CDC, you must corroborate with other sources to find - most gun deaths in the younger age ranges are gang or drug related. (I've done this search before, but I haven't time this morning to post sources). Shut down the gangs, shut down the drug killings and the gun deaths mostly go away. A few major cities have figured this out without banning ALL guns which does nothing to stop crime. Hopefully DC will figure this out as well.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
rraley...

.....the logic stream of gun control runs dry under ANY analysis rather quickly and, hence, goes straight for the emotional jugular: Actual homocides commited, especially ones commited with 'assault weapons'.

Here's a good site for the pro-gun control position:

http://www.vpc.org/

A casual perusal puts the lie to the public position of 'protecting' against just certain miltary style weapons. They advocate right on the front page: Ban handguns now.

Another nugget: "1 in 5 murdered law enforcement personel slain in the line of duty were killed with an assault weapon".

I guess the other 4 out of 5, 80%, were killed with a feather duster?

We keep talking about 'need' as in you don't need X to go hunting.

Need??? Is this where we go with Constitutional rights?

You don't 'need' to say this?
You don't 'need' to hear that?
You don't 'need' a Corvette?
You don't 'need' to have privacy in your own home?

A tongue in cheek site 'for' gun control:

http://www.kc3.com/editorial/40reasons.htm
 

alex

Member
I grew up in a family that never owned a gun nor did my father or brothers hunt. It wasn't until I married that I was introduced to this issue. Even though I believed that people kill people I still supported gun control and registration because I could never picture our government gaining enough power to make the issues raised in previous posts a reality. However, after passage of the Patriot Act I no longer support these issues. Now I would put NOTHING past our government in their efforts to combat terrorism and can see where registration lists and gun control could leave Americans in a very scary situation.
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
A few corrections...

Selective fire and automatic weapons (i.e., machine guns) were not banned in the 1930s. The law that was passed then merely regulated them. The National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1985 banned the manufacture or importation of machine guns for US citizens, but still allows the transfer of existing weapons.

I think that the NFA of 1985 is an excellent example of why most gun owners oppose new laws so strongly. The NRA, against the wishes of its members, supported the NFA of 1985. They supported it because the number of people who want to deal with all the hassles of owning a machine gun are few, and there were more than enough of these weapons to satisfy the market. The primary concern of the NRA membership was that once you allow the government to selectively identify and ban a type of weapon, you're opening the door to other weapons being banned. The government and the NRA leadership said that would not be the case, and that non-selective fire weapons would not be banned.

Now, fast forward to 1994, and the NFA of 1994, and guess what happens? Goodbye semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity pistols.... exactly what gun owners were promised would not happen in 1985. So is it any wonder that we're so opposed to any legislation that promises to protect our future rights by removing some of our current ones? It's the "fool us once..." principle.

Another thing that bothers me is the perception that shooters are all out hunting. We are not. I have eight guns at my house, and I have never gone hunting with them. I take them out target shooting, and for the most part they just sit in the rack. I collect them the same way that people collect tea cups or beanie babies. This is why I get nervous when politicians, especially Democrats, start trying to court the shooters by saying they're hunters. No, I don't take my AR-15 or FN/FAL "assault rifles" out into the woods to blast Bambi, but I do take them to the range and I do like having them in my collection.

Is an "AK-47" a legitimate weapon? A threat? Well over a million of these weapons have been imported into the United States, and how many have been used in crimes? Less than 1% of them. There are more Hondas used in crimes each year, so should we ban them? In fact, shouldn't we ban any car capable of exceeding the speed limit? What legitimate purpose do they have? One other factoid about weapons like the "AK-47". These weapons fire a light-weight round that is designed to wound not kill. This is why when some nut job opens up on a group of people you end up with one or two people dead and dozens of wounded. If that same guy started shooting with a hunting rifle or shotgun, those numbers would be the opposite. Lastly, yes you can empty a 30-round magazine on an AR-15 or AK-47 quickly, but not "in seconds". Try pulling an imaginary trigger 30 times as fast as you can, and see how long it takes even without the resistance of a trigger and the impact of recoil. Your finger gets tired pretty quick, and firing a weapon that fast makes it impossible to maintain your aim and muzzle climb will have you shooting at the sky by about round 15.

I like gun laws like those in Florida or South Carolina, where you can go in, show your driver's license, get an insta-check run on you, and if you pass you take your gun. The government knows I have the gun, and I don't have to put up with a lot of hassles. But when you have a state like Maryland, who's government has made no secret of wanting to ban guns altogether, it's no surpise that gun owners put up a stiff fight when some politician comes along with a gun ban draped in the banners of safety or crime control. We see it for what it is.
 
Originally posted by Bruzilla
Another thing that bothers me is the perception that shooters are all out hunting. We are not. I have eight guns at my house, and I have never gone hunting with them. I take them out target shooting, and for the most part they just sit in the rack. I collect them the same way that people collect tea cups or beanie babies.
They are also excellent investments. Esp. with all these gun bans. A buddy of mine bought a pre-ban HK 91 that was ex-swat team (or something like that). This was in the late 90's (about '99) for $1500. It is now worth over $3000.
hk91a2_3.jpg
 

ceo_pte

New Member
Re: Re: Gun Control

Originally posted by Ken King
Why ban any weapon if the wording of the Second Amendment and why it came about mean anything? Any firearm excluded seems like an infringement.

If a gun malfunctions and causes injury or death yes, sue them. But if the weapon is legally sold how can the manufacturers be held liable for what the user did?

Good question, registration is usually the first step towards confiscation and other infringements.

Project Exile is about charging and sentencing criminals that use firearms under Federal statutes and imposing mandated penalties without the ability to plead them down.

I agree with you Ken. Especially about the lawsuits.
 

Sparx

New Member
More gun control maddness? Gun locks.

I have several guns and enjoy target shooting and hunting. I think the gun locks are meant to protect your children not to keep you from getting to it quickly. I may be wrong, but in Maryland if you shoot an intruder in your home and you have a means of escape without choosing to shoot, you're going to face charges...?
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Originally posted by Sparx
More gun control maddness? Gun locks.

I have several guns and enjoy target shooting and hunting. I think the gun locks are meant to protect your children not to keep you from getting to it quickly. I may be wrong, but in Maryland if you shoot an intruder in your home and you have a means of escape without choosing to shoot, you're going to face charges...?

That's what I had a question about. If you capture someone breaking into your home and you beat him so severely that he can't walk, will that scare other would-be intruders?
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by Sparx
More gun control maddness? Gun locks.

I have several guns and enjoy target shooting and hunting. I think the gun locks are meant to protect your children not to keep you from getting to it quickly. I may be wrong, but in Maryland if you shoot an intruder in your home and you have a means of escape without choosing to shoot, you're going to face charges...?
Means of escape? Are you saying that if confronted on the second floor of your home that you must jump out the window instead of defending yourself? After all, that would be a means of escape, wouldn't it? I might do that in a fire, but not if I am armed and facing an intruder. It is all about the imminence of danger and if the intruder is attacking or not. Just don't shoot them in the back.
 

alex

Member
I think if you are in your home and they break in it is considered trespassing and you shouldn't be charged. But then again who knows what the DA would do especially if they are up for election. There was some outrage when the guy in PG shot the guys stealing his car a while back. Since they had not entered his home to steal the car but were out in the open I think he is facing charges for the shooting. Of course trying to get him convicted may be another story.
 

Sparx

New Member
Means of escape? Are you saying that if confronted on the second floor of your home that you must jump out the window instead of defending yourself? After all, that would be a means of escape, wouldn't it? I might do that in a fire, but not if I am armed and facing an intruder. It is all about the imminence of danger and if the intruder is attacking or not. Just don't shoot them in the back.

A little common sense would go a long way in answering that question.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by Sparx
Means of escape? Are you saying that if confronted on the second floor of your home that you must jump out the window instead of defending yourself? After all, that would be a means of escape, wouldn't it? I might do that in a fire, but not if I am armed and facing an intruder. It is all about the imminence of danger and if the intruder is attacking or not. Just don't shoot them in the back.

A little common sense would go a long way in answering that question.
It could be argued that there is always a means of escape, but that's not the point. You can defend yourself. Didn't they just decide not to prosecute the guy who shot the fellow climbing a ladder trying to break in. You know, where the owner went outside and shot him. Seems there is more wiggle room to this then having no means of escape.
 

Vince

......
I think if someone is inside my house, and I feel my children are in danger, I think I'll shoot and ask the question later. This way I'll be around to ask the question.
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Originally posted by Vince
I think if someone is inside my house, and I feel my children are in danger, I think I'll shoot and ask the question later. This way I'll be around to ask the question.

Plus, you'll be standing up for yourself and not letting some scum push you around and make you feel vulnerable.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Sparx...

...how can you protect your children if you gun is locked up?

The rules regarding use of deadly force are spelled out clearly in the Maryland Police Training Commission Firearms Safety Training Course which is a short video.

For anyone interested (EVERYONE SHOULD SEE IT), go to your local gunshop and plop down the $10 and watch the video. It'll take you 15 minutes and you don't have to buy anything else to see it.

HIGHLY educational.

Much better to see it first hand than for me to paraphrase.
 

Sparx

New Member
...how can you protect your children if you gun is locked up?

I don't mean to be unable to protect your children with the gun. What I'm saying is..gun locks are to protect children from themselves if they should get their hands on a gun. Same as a gun cabinet or safe. I can also see them going a long way to keep an intruder from using your own gun on you if they should find IT before you notice THEM.
 

Sparx

New Member
The rules regarding use of deadly force are spelled out clearly in the Maryland Police Training Commission Firearms Safety Training Course which is a short video.

Does this video spell out the rules for cops using deadly force or the public/homeowner?
 
Top