Gun Control

[Sparx]

As for having an unloaded gun in your house, or one that's locked away, you're only serving to fool yourself into feeling safe. If you've got time to unlock a gun, find the ammunition (which of course you'll be storing seperately... oy vay), load the gun, and get into firing mode, you've got time to call the cops and yell to any intruders that they are on the way... resulting in a hasty departure.

My guns aren't for protection. They're for sport. I'm not that paranoid. I have a dog that does fine..BTW he doesn't bite either but he makes a hell of a lot of noise if anyone's outside my house.

 

[Bruzilla]

I never felt the need to keep a loaded gun in the house either... that was until someone tried to force their way into my living room one morning at about 2:30 AM. That only had to happen once for me to change my mind on that issue.

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by Bruzilla
I never felt the need to keep a loaded gun in the house either... that was until someone tried to force their way into my living room one morning at about 2:30 AM. That only had to happen once for me to change my mind on that issue.

So what did you do? I would have been tempted to pound him until he was permanently disabled.

 

[Bruzilla]

It was a dark and stormy night... actually it was dark and clear. I was sleeping in my bedroom and I heard some noises coming from the living room. I lived in an apartment and I had a sliding glass door that opened to the living room. I didn't know what the sould was... just kind of a light banging. I was about to go back to sleep when the noise changed tone (the guy had gotten the door lock open but a wood rod was keeping the door from sliding open.)

I got up and went out to the living room, and the last thing I expected to see was a guy standing outside my sliding glass door trying to lift it up off the tracks! I freaked out... needless to say, and yelled for him to get the Hell out of there as I was going to get a gun. I went back to my room and snagged an AR-15 off the wall. I could still hear him working on that door. I came back out to the living room and pointed the rifle right at him, at which time he freaked and took off.

What really bothered me is that he kept trying to get that door open even after I had threatened to get a gun. It wasn't till he saw the muzzle that he took off. Now, imagine what could have happened if I had stayed in bed and he had come back to the bedroom? A knife beats an unloaded gun hanging on the rack everyday of the week. That's why I have a loaded gun in easy reach, with the bed between me and anyone coming through the door. Unless he can jump like a gazelle, I'll get him first.

 

[itsbob]

Re: Re: Gun Control

Gun registration is for two reasons, IMO. One is to deter anyone who might be on the fence of whether or not they want to shoot someone, and have that accountability of knowing the weapon can be traced back to them. It allows for 'second thoughts' to take place, and hopefully good sense will prevail. That being said, if someone is really determined to kill someone, gun registration isn't going to stop it.

Secondly, the weapon CAN be traced back to owners, if used in a crime. I think that's fair and also helpful to investigators of the crimes, even if the weapon used is stolen from the owner. At the very least, they might be able to determine who might have had opportunity to steal the weapon and thus who might have used it.

[/B]

Registration gives the government the ability to know exactly how many guns there are, who has them and where they are.. so if and when we get an AL GOre in office all they have to do is come knock on your door and take them..

Ever think why our country hasn't been invaded.. EVER?? Our own government doesn't know how many weapons Billy Joe Bob has stashed in his basement.. or how many rounds.. with a population of 250,000,000 there are probably three times that many weapons More then ANY military in the world.. who can defeat THAT!??

 

[Bruzilla]

Re: Re: Re: Gun Control

Originally posted by itsbob
Registration gives the government the ability to know exactly how many guns there are, who has them and where they are.. so if and when we get an AL GOre in office all they have to do is come knock on your door and take them..

Ever think why our country hasn't been invaded.. EVER?? Our own government doesn't know how many weapons Billy Joe Bob has stashed in his basement.. or how many rounds.. with a population of 250,000,000 there are probably three times that many weapons More then ANY military in the world.. who can defeat THAT!??

Ahhhh... I think the fact that we've never been invaded is due to geography, not private ownership of guns. Any hostile power that we've encountered would have a tough time trying to take, hold, and manage a country as large as the US and as far away. The logistics trail that would be needed to manage the US would be impossible to maintain.

 

[sleuth]

Re: Re: Re: Gun Control

Originally posted by itsbob
Registration gives the government the ability to know exactly how many guns there are, who has them and where they are.. so if and when we get an AL GOre in office all they have to do is come knock on your door and take them..

I suppose it's possible. I won't argue that.

But I do think gun registration does have its merits, which I talked about above.

 

[vraiblonde]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Gun Control

Originally posted by sleuth14
But I do think gun registration does have its merits, which I talked about above.

Then we get back to the crux of the matter: criminals aren't going to register their guns. You and I will, but we're not the ones these laws are made for. So that makes it more "feel-good" legislation and nothing that will be effective in reducing crime.

 

[sleuth]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gun Control

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Then we get back to the crux of the matter: criminals aren't going to register their guns. You and I will, but we're not the ones these laws are made for. So that makes it more "feel-good" legislation and nothing that will be effective in reducing crime.

You don't think that criminals aren't using stolen weapons, and knowing who they're stolen from may help in tracking the criminal?

I'd be curious to see some statistics about how many (solved) crimes are committed with registered weapons and how many (solved) crimes were committed with nonregistered weapons.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by sleuth14
You don't think that criminals aren't using stolen weapons, and knowing who they're stolen from may help in tracking the criminal?

How are you going to track the weapon unless you have it in your possession? I mean, if some crook robs a 7-11 and kills the clerk, will he toss the gun or keep it to avoid it being found by police and traced back to him?

There's another question: How often is the gun used in a crime recovered? It would seem to me that any kid who ever watched Magnum PI would know to get rid of the gun so it can never be found.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
How are you going to track the weapon unless you have it in your possession? I mean, if some crook robs a 7-11 and kills the clerk, will he toss the gun or keep it to avoid it being found by police and traced back to him?

There's another question: How often is the gun used in a crime recovered? It would seem to me that any kid who ever watched Magnum PI would know to get rid of the gun so it can never be found.

Magnum PI was off the air by the time I was a teenager.

I honestly don't know how a criminal thinks, because I'm not one. Obviously, most rational people, upon committing a crime with a weapon registered to them, would throw it away. But would they if it were registered to someone else? Can't ballistics tests determine if the same gun was used in more than one crime, whether or not the weapon was recovered?

 

[Tonio]

How many gun deaths are due to domestic squabbles or fights with neighbors? I read once that something like 80 percent of the women in prison are there for shooting abusive boyfriends or husbands.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Tonio
How many gun deaths are due to domestic squabbles or fights with neighbors?

I read on CDC that most gun deaths are suicides. I'll find the stats for you.

 

[huntr1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Gun Control

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Then we get back to the crux of the matter: criminals aren't going to register their guns. You and I will, but we're not the ones these laws are made for. So that makes it more "feel-good" legislation and nothing that will be effective in reducing crime.

I don't know about you, but if it is already in my hands when the registration rules go in to effect, I AIN'T REGISTERING IT!!!!





sorry officer, I "lost" it when I moved

 

[vraiblonde]

DOJ says...

Interesting.

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

Incidents involving a firearm represented 7% of the 4.9 million violent crime of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
DOJ says...

Interesting.

I wish they would have provided a finer breakdown of that 80% category.

Family and friends is much different than a street buy or illegal source... IMO

 

[Larry Gude]

sleuth...

...I know from posting with you in the past you are smarter than that:

and knowing who they're stolen from may help in tracking the criminal?

You're going down a false logic trail. How many crimes are commited with a STOLEN car? Knowing who the car is registered to only helps in determining ownership when the bad guys ditch it, not prevention.

We are talking about criminal use.

The thought process you are following is one of assuming guilt.

I don't care if someone robs a 7-11 with a gun John Ashcroft just approved them for, they are still commiting a crime that has NOTHING to do with firearm registration.

This is maddness. Imagine the outrage if the Federal government said that 'everyone who has AID's MUST register that fact with the local authorities along with a DNA sample just in case you infect someone else'.

Here is an idea that puts the final lie to 'registration' being anything more than shredding the Constitution:

What if every single person had, along with their Social Security card, a Federal firearms permit.

"This person is a citizen in good standing and therefore entitled to keep and bear arms".

We simply take this permit away from people who commit crimes with a firearm.

That's what we do with a drivers license's.

Aren't you presuming guilt? Isn't that what gun control is really all about?

 

[itsbob]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Gun Control

Originally posted by Bruzilla
Ahhhh... I think the fact that we've never been invaded is due to geography, not private ownership of guns. Any hostile power that we've encountered would have a tough time trying to take, hold, and manage a country as large as the US and as far away. The logistics trail that would be needed to manage the US would be impossible to maintain.

There's a difference between logistics for us to go to Europe, then Europe to come here!?? Can't see much difference between us invading in WWII and Russia invading here, or China coming here for that matter. The logistaicl problem comes into play not when you talk about defeating our Army of 400,00 but when you talk about how big an Army you need to defeat 250,000,000 possibly Armed Ctiziens

 

[itsbob]

What I am reading is registration won't stop any crimes from being comitted it would just help in the investigation after the fact.. and that I find flawed also, unless the initial weapon registrant KNOWs who stole their gun you still can't get back to the person who comitted the crime.

 

[sleuth]

Re: sleuth...

Originally posted by Larry Gude

You're going down a false logic trail. How many crimes are commited with a STOLEN car? Knowing who the car is registered to only helps in determining ownership when the bad guys ditch it, not prevention.

To be honest, my argument for registration was simply that it could help investigators, not that it will always, or even often help. In fact, I don't know how much it might help, and that's why I asked for statistics.