Gun Control

[Sparx]

Didn't they just decide not to prosecute the guy who shot the fellow climbing a ladder trying to break in. You know, where the owner went outside and shot him. Seems there is more wiggle room to this then having no means of escape.

I'm not familiar with this case..Do you have more info?

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by Sparx
Didn't they just decide not to prosecute the guy who shot the fellow climbing a ladder trying to break in. You know, where the owner went outside and shot him. Seems there is more wiggle room to this then having no means of escape.

Maybe the owner should have pulled the ladder out from under the guy, listened to the satisfying crack of bones as he hit the ground, and then whack him so hard across the eyes that he can't see from all the blood.

 

[Sparx]

Maybe the owner should have pulled the ladder out from under the guy, listened to the satisfying crack of bones as he hit the ground, and then whack him so hard across the eyes that he can't see from all the blood.

haha and hopefuly it's not the Comcast guy that was supposed to be there sometime between 9 and 5

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by Sparx
Didn't they just decide not to prosecute the guy who shot the fellow climbing a ladder trying to break in. You know, where the owner went outside and shot him. Seems there is more wiggle room to this then having no means of escape.

I'm not familiar with this case..Do you have more info?

Here is the link when we were talking about it, I'm still looking for the other when they said the would not prosecute. http://forums.somd.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21574

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by Sparx
[What I'm saying is..gun locks are to protect children from themselves if they should get their hands on a gun. Same as a gun cabinet or safe. I can also see them going a long way to keep an intruder from using your own gun on you if they should find IT before you notice THEM.

Sparx, gun locks are notorious for failure. The best way to protect your children is through education. We don't lock up our kitchen knives and our kids manage to understand that they are extremely dangerous when used improperly, why should guns be any different?

 

[Sparx]

Sparx, gun locks are notorious for failure. The best way to protect your children is through education. We don't lock up our kitchen knives and our kids manage to understand that they are extremely dangerous when used improperly, why should guns be any different?

I've never heard of gun locks being notorious for failure..have to take your word on it. Condoms break sometimes too but I wouldn't screw around without one...(pun definately intented)..lol.
Knives don't go off accidentaly either. Kids that are old enough can be educated but they start walking and getting courious about things way before that age.
In my house, I keepem locked up.

 

[Bruzilla]

Originally posted by huntr1
They are also excellent investments. Esp. with all these gun bans. A buddy of mine bought a pre-ban HK 91 that was ex-swat team (or something like that). This was in the late 90's (about '99) for $1500. It is now worth over $3000.

Sorry huntr1, but assault weapons are lousy investments. Yes, a pre-ban HK-91 sells for around $2,500, but only a real purist would pay that much for one as now Century Arms is making build-up guns (HkK parts on a CA receiver) and these are selling for about $400. The only difference is there is a muzzle brake in place of the flash supressor and no more functional folding stocks (they must be locked in place.) Also, now that CA is making receivers for the HK-91, you can expect to see shorty variations of the 91, HK-93s, and HK-94s (MP-5s) coming shortly. About the only assault weapons that were banned that you can't get at a discount price right now are the FN/FNC and M-1A rifles.

Here are some sample prices:

AR-15A2: Pre-Ban Price - $650, Immediate Post-Ban Price - $1,500, Price Today - $525

FN/FAL: Pre-Ban Price - $1,300, Immediate Post-Ban Price - $2,500, Price Today - $390

HK-91: Pre-Ban Price - $750, Immediate Post-Ban Price - $2,500, Price Today - $400

CETME (Early version of HK-91): Pre-Ban Price - N/A (None were imported to USA), Immediate Post-Ban Price - $N/A, Price Today - $325

M-1A Standard: Pre-Ban Price - $850, Immediate Post-Ban Price - $1,500, Price Today - $1,100

AKM (AK-47): Pre-Ban Price - $350, Immediate Post-Ban Price - $750, Price Today - $300

AKS: Pre-Ban Price - $150, Immediate Post-Ban Price - $250, Price Today - $140

As you can see... the vaunted Assaut Weapons Ban did anything but ban these weapons. In fact, the ban greatly increased the availability, and decreased the price, of most of these weapons.

Also, the same deal was seen with high-capacity pistol magazines. Even though the manufacture of these was banned, there were millions of them on the market. So, there was a brief spike due to panic buying after the ban, and then the market corrected due to oversupply and the fact that the ban on high-capacity magazines resulted in a flood of compact pistols that people have been buying instead of the larger pistols.

This was also a god send to criminals as they no longer had to rely on cheap, unreliable, saturday night specials from South America anymore. Now they could have a nice high-performance Glock, Colt, S&W, Sig-Sauer, etc., pocket pistol. Way to go Clinton!

 

[Larry Gude]

Sparx...

...I guess I'll give up on this one after this last try:

If an adult decides that he or she wants or needs to have a firearm readily available in their home and children will have access to it then they take on an enourmous responsibility BUT they have made that choice. Maryland says you can NOT choose to do so. You MUST render your weapon safe. In an emergency that means useless save throwing it.

A firearm for home defense is EXACTLY like any other tool including a fire extinguisher; if you need it in an emergency and it is locked up or away or both, it is useless.

No, the training video is for citizens only. Officers go through all kinds of training, obviously more in depth than a 15 minute video.

Do some research on home invasion attacks including simple burglary all the way up to violent intent, rape, murder etc.

There is very little time to open a safe or unlock anything.

The police are law enforcement, not crime prevention. You are on your own from the time the crime begins until they arrive. The good guys will arrive anywhere from, say 5 minutes from an emergency call from you if they happen to be in the neighborhood already, to a few days later when the neighbors notice something is wrong.

What I object to is the legal head start a bad guy is GIVEN by the government through handicaps placed on the law abiding.

I prime example of mindset is you and I:

You mentioned 'protecting the children' and you had protecting them FROM a gun in mind, not a criminal.

I hear you say 'protect your children' and I think 'gun' to USE to protect them from a criminal.

In a better world, you do it your way, I do it mine and it's up to the bad guy to guess because the state hasn't limited either of us in how we might protect our homes and family in an emergency.

 

[SurfaceTension]

While I completely agree with what Larry said, for those who are looking to achieve a compromise I'd recommend:
http://www.gunvault.com/

 

[Bruzilla]

Any uninvited visitors to my home will be greeted by a Beretta Model 96, loaded with 10 rounds of .40 S&W Glasers. I keep my pistol loaded, with a round chambered, and unlocked on my gun rack. I also have three children, who are now all teenagers but who have been around a loaded gun or two all their lives.

Why do I feel like I can get away with this? Because unlike moronic parents who feel it's safer to keep a gun hidden and/or locked away, I started my kids out shooting at an early age. More than shooting, they also had to clean the guns they shot, take them apart, and maintain them. Like most chores, they quickly lost interest in what to them was more work than fun. Guns were never some mysterious, forbidden, object that mommy and daddy had hidden. They were loud, dangerous, items that were a lot of work to maintain, and so my kids never felt compelled to play with a gun, and if they ever had one in their hands for any reason, they knew how to handle it safely.

Most all gun accidents involving children occur when a "hidden" gun is found by a kid while exploring mom & dad's room, and they mishandle it or think it's a toy. This doesn't happen because the gun is in the house and loaded, it happens because mom & dad assumed that ignorance was bliss and never bothered to instruct their kid on firearm safety.

Hand a gun to most kids, and they'll immediately stick their finger on the trigger and move the muzzle about as they look at it. Hand a gun to one of my kids and they'll place their finger alongside the trigger guard, open the action or cylinder to see if it's loaded, and will keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

You can hope that you're smart enough to hide a gun where your kid won't find it. But if you can find a place to hide it, your kid will find it eventually. The only question is: what will your kid do when he/she finds the gun? Will they be educated enough to leave it alone, or at a minimum, verify that it's unloaded; or will they start playing cops and robbers?

What's really sad is that a couple of counties in Maryland started mandatory firearms safety training for all kids in the public schools, and the NRA pushed through a bill that would have mandated it for the whole state. But Glendenning, the patron saint of child safety, vetoed the bill. He said it was because of concerns with the liabilities involved with having kids at shooting ranges (a problem that never occured in the counties that have the program), but when he thought he was off camera he told the truth... he said that he wouldn't be caught dead supporting a program that the NRA was behind. So much for chiold safety.

 

[Vince]

Originally posted by Bruzilla

Why do I feel like I can get away with this? Because unlike moronic parents who feel it's safer to keep a gun hidden and/or locked away, I started my kids out shooting at an early age. More than shooting, they also had to clean the guns they shot, take them apart, and maintain them. Like most chores, they quickly lost interest in what to them was more work than fun. Guns were never some mysterious, forbidden, object that mommy and daddy had hidden. They were loud, dangerous, items that were a lot of work to maintain, and so my kids never felt compelled to play with a gun, and if they ever had one in their hands for any reason, they knew how to handle it safely.

Wish more parents would do this. Taught my daughter how to shoot and handle a gun.

 

[Sparx]

Why do I feel like I can get away with this? Because unlike moronic parents who feel it's safer to keep a gun hidden and/or locked away, I started my kids out shooting at an early age. More than shooting, they also had to clean the guns they shot, take them apart, and maintain them. Like most chores, they quickly lost interest in what to them was more work than fun. Guns were never some mysterious, forbidden, object that mommy and daddy had hidden. They were loud, dangerous, items that were a lot of work to maintain, and so my kids never felt compelled to play with a gun, and if they ever had one in their hands for any reason, they knew how to handle it safely.


I too taught my daughter how to handle every gun in the house. But that does nothing for the kids who may come to play who's parents don't have guns. Keeping a loaded gun in the house within reach such as in a night stand is stupid. Before I moved to this area, I came home one day and found two of the neighbors kids sitting on my kitchen floor eating snacks. That could have as easily been the bedroom nightstand and a gun. You can control your kids but not everyone elses. Sure they shouldn't have been there in the first place, they had to climb the TV tower to get in but sh_t happens and I wouldn't feel any better yet had they been hurt.

 

[vraiblonde]

Sparx, where did you live that neighbor kids were climbing your TV tower and entering your home without permission?

 

[vraiblonde]

And also:

So, like, if they'd have gone in your medicine cabinet and ODed on a prescription medication, that would have been your fault, too?

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
And also:

So, like, if they'd have gone in your medicine cabinet and ODed on a prescription medication, that would have been your fault, too?

Actually, in the great State of Maryland, probably.

You know what's crazy? My dad has some really nice guns he'd like to give to my son. My son is up my butt about bringing them home and displaying them on the wall in his bedroom. After all, his cousins who live in different (ahem, less nutty) States, all have their little arsenal displayed proudly over their beds in their bedrooms. I refuse to do that here, since I'm absolutely certain some kid would come over, go home and tell his Mom Brandon has guns in his room and I'd get a knock on the door from the Police and Child Protective Service.

 

[huntr1]

I plan to strat teaching my oldest how to shoot this summer. Looking into buying one of the single shot .22's like the Keystone "Crickett".

 

[Sparx]

Sparx, where did you live that neighbor kids were climbing your TV tower and entering your home without permission?

I lived in central Ohio until 5 years ago. These kids were a problem. That happened to be the 2nd time I found them in my house. On this occasion I called the cops. They told me I should have detained them then called them and held the kids until they got there. Instead I had it out with the their stupid parents who taught them nothing about respecting other peoples property.
(the parents had no respect either)

No, the medicine cabinet scenario might not be my fault either but I would still have felt terrible about it.

 

[Larry Gude]

Sparx...

...most people, I'm sure choose to NOT keep a weapon at the ready for child safety reasons though Bruz and you have the right idea; teaching

But some people live in very high crime areas and are perhaps more likely victims. And they are told they can't choose to defend themselves.

 

[Sparx]

Re: Sparx...

Originally posted by Larry Gude
...most people, I'm sure choose to NOT keep a weapon at the ready for child safety reasons though Bruz and you have the right idea; teaching

But some people live in very high crime areas and are perhaps more likely victims. And they are told they can't choose to defend themselves.

Yes that is sad. I would hate to see all guns taken away from law abiding citizens who may need to defend themselves or just enjoy hunting or target shooting. There is no way to keep them away from villians.

I

 

[Bruzilla]

Was I worried about other peoples' kids? No, and I'll tell you why. Again, it all goes back to education. In my case, my kids were very well versed in firearms by the time they were eight or nine, i.e., old enough to reach the guns. Again, I didn't teach them to be afraid of guns, nor did I encourage my kids to wonder about them by not teaching them. They knew what they were for and what they could do, and when other kids came in saw them and asked about them, the kids were directed over to me. My kids knew the rules, and had a healthy respect for why the rules were important, and they followed them. Again, the best thing that you can do for a kid is de-mystify guns for them.

As for having an unloaded gun in your house, or one that's locked away, you're only serving to fool yourself into feeling safe. If you've got time to unlock a gun, find the ammunition (which of course you'll be storing seperately... oy vay), load the gun, and get into firing mode, you've got time to call the cops and yell to any intruders that they are on the way... resulting in a hasty departure.

The real need for a gun at the ready is for a home intrusion at night when you are asleep. If someone comes into your room with ill will, they aren't going to wait for you to do all the steps listed above. Now, this is the point where the anti-gun folks start jumping up and down saying "Oh! Oh! But what happens when your kid comes into the room at 2:00 AM, or your husband comes in late from work, and you shoot them by accident? What happens then!"

How many armed parents shoot their kids when they come in at night and awaken them? About zero. How many wives shoot their husbands who come it late at night? About zero. Kids entering their parent's room at 2:00 AM usually always are saying "Mom, Dad, I need/want..." as soon as they hit the door. And there are always signs of a spouse coming home... car pulling into driveway, front door opening, keys rattling, cursing when they trip on the dog, etc. Kids and spouses don't tend to knock into things as they try to navigate a strange house in the dark, nor do they have flashlights, nor do they try to enter through windows. And in the rare occurances when they do lose their keys and try to gain entry that way, they tend to be quick to yell "It's me!" when you say "I've got a gun!"