Handgun background checks...

[DEEKAYPEE8569]

No he can't.

Source?

I did look at him with a 'you're full-a ***t' smirk on my face, but he insisted that that was true.

 

[PsyOps]

Source?

I did look at him with a 'you're full-a ***t' smirk on my face, but he insisted that that was true.

MCSM: Maryland Firearm Laws

Federal and Maryland State or local law enforcement officers generally are exempt from the permit requirement. However, sheriffs and their deputies are exempted only while on active assignment engaged in law enforcement and only with respect to handguns which they are duly authorized to wear, carry or transport as part of their official equipment. Law enforcement officers from other states are exempt only while on official business.

Not sure if this addresses what you're talking about.

 

[PsyOps]

MCSM: Maryland Firearm Laws

The application may be disapproved only if the purchaser is ineligible or if the information supplied is false or incomplete. If no action is taken within seven working days from the date the application is forwarded by the dealer, the handgun may be delivered to the purchaser.

Not MUST, but MAY. The law does not appear to require FFLs to release anything on day 8.

Then there's this:

Most Maryland dealers who are licensed by the State Police routinely await approval from the State Police even after seven days have elapsed.

educate yourself!

 

[Tilted]

MCSM: Maryland Firearm Laws

​

Not MUST, but MAY. The law does not appear to require FFLs to release anything on day 8.

Then there's this:

​

That's right, in so far as this law is concerned the FFL is then free to turn the firearm over to the purchaser - there is no longer a specific prohibition on them doing so. No one has asserted, at least I haven't, that this specific law says they have to give the firearm to you. This law doesn't need to say that.

So now it becomes like an ordinary sales transaction, one without that specific legal limitation placed upon it. What happens when someone pays for merchandise and there's no legitimate reason for the merchant not to give it to them? How do sales transactions work? You pay your money, they give you your merchandise. That's what should happen. Like I suggested, I wouldn't do business with someone that refused to give me what I bought from them after I'd paid them for it - unless there was a good and legitimate reason for them not to. Depending on the circumstances, they may or may not be in actual violation of common law principles (if they don't turn over the merchandise you paid for), but they are in the wrong unless they told you ahead of time of their special policy regarding releasing firearms. The natural, and reasonable, expectation would be that they would give you the firearm you paid for when they were legally allowed to. That has always been after 7 days, regardless of whether the application was returned - a fact that the MSP / AG recently had to acknowledge.

You're looking for an explicit declaration of a common sense / common law reality, and not finding such a declaration you're suggesting that the reality doesn't exist. But it does.

 

[PsyOps]

That's right, in so far as this law is concerned the FFL is then free to turn the firearm over to the purchaser - there is no longer a specific prohibition on them doing so. No one has asserted, at least I haven't, that this specific law says they have to give the firearm to you. This law doesn't need to say that.

So now it becomes like an ordinary sales transaction, one without that specific legal limitation placed upon it. What happens when someone pays for merchandise and there's no legitimate reason for the merchant not to give it to them? How do sales transactions work? You pay your money, they give you your merchandise. That's what should happen. Like I suggested, I wouldn't do business with someone that refused to give me what I bought from them after I'd paid them for it - unless there was a good and legitimate reason for them not to. Depending on the circumstances, they may or may not be in actual violation of common law principles (if they don't turn over the merchandise you paid for), but they are in the wrong unless they told you ahead of time of their special policy regarding releasing firearms. The natural, and reasonable, expectation would be that they would give you the firearm you paid for when they were legally allowed to. That has always been after 7 days, regardless of whether the application was returned - a fact that the MSP / AG recently had to acknowledge.

You're looking for an explicit declaration of a common sense / common law reality, and not finding such a declaration you're suggesting that the reality doesn't exist. But it does.

That post was mostly for Midnight, who has been contending FFLs are required to release the gun on day 8, which they are not…………………… and return his condescension in kind.

But I am still struggling with, if the MSP was able to review BCs within the 7 day window even with the huge influx of requests, why were FFLs holding out for months on people when there was no real rational reason to do so? I would like to know who was pulling the strings.

I do understand we are facing some extraordinary circumstances, that may extend wait times beyond 8 days, but I can’t see 50, 75, or worst 100 day wait times.

 

[Tilted]

That post was mostly for Midnight, who has been contending FFLs are required to release the gun on day 8, which they are not…………………… and return his condescension in kind.

But I am still struggling with, if the MSP was able to review BCs within the 7 day window even with the huge influx of requests, why were FFLs holding out for months on people when there was no real rational reason to do so? I would like to know who was pulling the strings.

I do understand we are facing some extraordinary circumstances, that may extend wait times beyond 8 days, but I can’t see 50, 75, or worst 100 day wait times.

My guess would be that they had set up a rather inefficient process for the checks and that they didnt have nearly enough resources devoted to that process in light of the short-term demand generated by SB 281. I wouldn't necessarily ascribe nefarious motives, other than that which might be represented by an improper (read: arrogant) lack of concern for getting the job done within a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Midnightrider]

That post was mostly for Midnight, who has been contending FFLs are required to release the gun on day 8, which they are not…………………… and return his condescension in kind.

But I am still struggling with, if the MSP was able to review BCs within the 7 day window even with the huge influx of requests, why were FFLs holding out for months on people when there was no real rational reason to do so? I would like to know who was pulling the strings.

I do understand we are facing some extraordinary circumstances, that may extend wait times beyond 8 days, but I can’t see 50, 75, or worst 100 day wait times.

. I never once said that FFLs were required to release on the 8th day. Only that there is nothing stopping them. As a result, if you buy from an FFL that refuses to release your purchase its your own fault. There are hundreds that do release on the 8th day.

The educate yourself comment was directed at your comment about law suits. There was one made by MSI on behalf of gun owners and gun dealers. As part of the settlement the MSP sent out less ambiguous direction on 8th day release. Prior to that they had sent faxes and emails that alluded to liability for FFLs should they choose to release prior to getting back an ND. You can find that info on MDshooters, in the Maryland 2ndA section, under the thread a out the MSI lawsuit. Several of the letters and faxes the dealers received from MSP are in that thread. If you want to go read it.

And tilted's assessment is right on, the MSP didn't have the resources to handle this huge rush of buying. There is no way they will be able to handle the further burden of training and licensing requirements coming with 281

 

[Gilligan]

. There are hundreds that do release on the 8th day.

List? TIA.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

And tilted's assessment is right on, the MSP didn't have the resources to handle this huge rush of buying. There is no way they will be able to handle the further burden of training and licensing requirements coming with 281

They do have the resources.

They choose to manually check 17 different databases.

They choose to use a limited number of fax machines instead of electronic avenues.

They choose to be the POC instead of the FFL.

They won't be doing anything but collecting money. They set the guidelines already, and NRA certified instructors will be teaching the classes. They are about to finish up their payment procedures also....of course that will be online.


MSP's problem is the higher-ups put into office by the O'Malley administration who are his lap dogs.

 

[Shaolin_Raptor]

Source?

I did look at him with a 'you're full-a ***t' smirk on my face, but he insisted that that was true.

MCSM: Maryland Firearm Laws

​

Not sure if this addresses what you're talking about.

^That. Technically he MIGHT be able to. I'd like to see him pull it off. My FFL is a former PG cop, son is MSP. He still can't buy stuff Texas style. I'm sure if they proved somehow that it is used for work somehow, blah blah. The local leo do get ammo discounts though, which is nice.

 

[PsyOps]

As a result, if you buy from an FFL that refuses to release your purchase its your own fault. There are hundreds that do release on the 8th day.

You refuse to recognize all the people in this thread that stated they have had to wait months for the firearms. You're making an ignorant assertion that it's OUR fault that the FFL we chose isn't releasing, when we had no knowledge that this was going to happen the way it did. At a certain point, virtually every FFL was holding for weeks/months. It wasn't until about the June timeframe that the advisory came out clarifying they can release on day 8 at their discretion. Some heeded this, some didn’t. I bought my AR before this advisory came out. Because your superior intellect (sarc) afforded you the foreknowledge to find an FFL that wasn’t playing the holding game doesn’t demand that the rest of us are a bunch of mind-numb idiots stupidly going around selecting FFLs we know are going to hold out.

 

[Midnightrider]

You refuse to recognize all the people in this thread that stated they have had to wait months for the firearms. You're making an ignorant assertion that it's OUR fault that the FFL we chose isn't releasing, when we had no knowledge that this was going to happen the way it did. At a certain point, virtually every FFL was holding for weeks/months. It wasn't until about the June timeframe that the advisory came out clarifying they can release on day 8 at their discretion. Some heeded this, some didn’t. I bought my AR before this advisory came out. Because your superior intellect (sarc) afforded you the foreknowledge to find an FFL that wasn’t playing the holding game doesn’t demand that the rest of us are a bunch of mind-numb idiots stupidly going around selecting FFLs we know are going to hold out.

That you were late to the party and ignorant of the situation doesn't change the facts or the law. I didn't do anything other than ASK MY FFLs when I would be able to pick up my gun. That's all it took. I didn't have any problem finding a local FFL that was releasing on time.

My original comment on the 8th day releas, the one you took so much offense to, was "how long are people waiting to get their guns these days". My answer remains the same; if you are waiting more than 8 days it's your own fault.

If you don't agree with the idea of 8th day release, by all means buy from a dealer that refuses to give you your property.

 

[NextJen]

I just received an email from Maryland State Senator, Nancy Jacobs concerning SB 281. Here it is:

Dear Gun Rights Advocate:

New Gun Regulations NOT fully posted on Maryland Register as promised.

I want to provide you with an update concerning the new gun law that is to go into effect on October 1, 2013.

I am on the Administrative, Executive and Legislative Review Committee (AELR) of the Md. General Assembly. The AELR committee reviews proposed regulations. As you may already know, the MD State Police (MSP) is responsible for promulgating the regulations to implement the new gun law (SB 281).

As a member of the AELR committee, I was given a draft copy of the new proposed regulations to comment on before they were to have been published on September 6 in the Maryland Register. Once published (and official), the regulations will be open to public comment.

However, they are not publishing the entire set of new regulations on September 6 as promised. They have only published an abbreviated section of the definitions.

The more important set of the regulations dealing with hand gun permits were only "introduced" on their web site. They did not publish the full text of these regulations, but rather a two sentence line of introduction: "Chapter 13 of the Acts of 1972, Codified as Public Safety Article, Title 5, Subtitle 3, Annotated Code of Maryland (Handgun Permit Law), provided for the Secretary of State Police to issue handgun permits under specified conditions. The following regulations have been adopted pursuant to this legislation." There is nothing else posted after this line.

I have my own thoughts as to why they are not being fully published at this time. First and foremost, I think the law was extremely poorly written. SB 281 was filled with a lot of ambiguities and incorrect information that I believe the MSP is finding difficult to correct through these regulations.

I had hoped to be able to share my own review of these regulations once they had officially been published on the web site of the Maryland Register. I expect they are making changes to them as we speak and just haven't finished with them as of yet.

The Maryland Register is published twice a month on a Friday. By law, regulations must be posted for public review and comment. September 20th is the next Friday that new regulations will be posted on their web site.

That web site is: Maryland Register Online Homepage.

I will be back in touch with you as I learn more.

Nancy

 

[PsyOps]

That you were late to the party and ignorant of the situation doesn't change the facts or the law. I didn't do anything other than ASK MY FFLs when I would be able to pick up my gun. That's all it took. I didn't have any problem finding a local FFL that was releasing on time.

My original comment on the 8th day releas, the one you took so much offense to, was "how long are people waiting to get their guns these days". My answer remains the same; if you are waiting more than 8 days it's your own fault.

If you don't agree with the idea of 8th day release, by all means buy from a dealer that refuses to give you your property.

Let express this at the apparent level you seem to exist:

Whatever dude!

 

[Midnightrider]

Let express this at the apparent level you seem to exist:

Whatever dude!

I cant help it if you were ignorant of what was going on.

 

[Shaolin_Raptor]

If he purchased from an FFL prior to 8 day release and they are not going to allow after 8 day release becomes legal. How is it his fault?

 

[Midnightrider]

If he purchased from an FFL prior to 8 day release and they are not going to allow after 8 day release becomes legal. How is it his fault?

there was no "prior to 8th day release" unless you mean prior to the 7 day waiting period. At worst there was a short period where FFls were coerced into not releaseing on time for a couple weeks. But my comment was about current purchases. If you go buy something now and you choose a place that doesn't release on time, it is your own fault.

 

[PsyOps]

I cant help it if you were ignorant of what was going on.

Me and tens of thousands of others STILL waiting to receive their firearms. All these ignorant stupid people launching lawsuits, were just too stupid to know what's going on. Only you, oh brilliant one, were smart enough.

Right

 

[PsyOps]

there was no "prior to 8th day release" unless you mean prior to the 7 day waiting period. At worst there was a short period where FFls were coerced into not releaseing on time for a couple weeks. But my comment was about current purchases. If you go buy something now and you choose a place that doesn't release on time, it is your own fault.

Mine wasn't a current purchase and I've stated so a number of times. Your ignorance is your own fault because you're too busy trying to point out how stupid everyone else is.

 

[Midnightrider]

Me and tens of thousands of others STILL waiting to receive their firearms. All these ignorant stupid people launching lawsuits, were just too stupid to know what's going on. Only you, oh brilliant one, were smart enough.

Right

i'm one of many, many, many people who did their research. I am certainly not the only brilliant one who was smart enough.

which lawsuits are you talking about?