Hey Dems

[dems4me]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Everything I've ever seen is that Gore won the popular vote and Bush won the electoral vote and, therefore, the election.

Take it up with your Congressman. Presidents are elected by electoral vote, not popular vote - says so in our Constitution. If you want that changed, you have to go through the process of making an amendment.

I was unaware that Kathleen Turner had anything to do with politics at all, let alone the Bush campaign.

Opps... Kathleen Harriss... She co-chaired his campaign and held a fund raiser for him in Massachusetts or Minnesota or some state like that. That's why alot of us dems are bent about her. As for proposing an amendment -- I'll just follow Bush's example and may just do that for anything and all things I don't like...

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by dems4me
As for proposing an amendment -- I'll just follow Bush's example and may just do that for anything and all things I don't like...

Go for it. Happens all the time - people are constantly rallying for Constitutional amendments for things they don't like. This is America and you have a say. You're not necessarily going to get your way BUT you can certaily bring it up for discussion.

 

[dems4me]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Go for it. Happens all the time - people are constantly rallying for Constitutional amendments for things they don't like. This is America and you have a say. You're not necessarily going to get your way BUT you can certaily bring it up for discussion.

yeah right... let me draft up this proposed amendment and drop it off at capitol hill on the way home... I'm sure it'll get somewhere... I'm actually surprised at how many people are not aware that its the electorial college that elects the president (although I think they have become unethical of recent )

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by dems4me
I'm actually surprised at how many people are not aware that its the electorial college that elects the president

Yeah, considering it's only been that way since 1787. Anyone who doesn't know about the Electoral College should be forced to turn in their voter registration card. There's no excuse for that kind of ignorance.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Everything I've ever seen is that Gore won the popular vote and Bush won the electoral vote and, therefore, the election.

Don't really have time to look it up right now, but I thought that after the recounts were all finalized, Bush won both.

 

[ylexot]

Originally posted by sleuth14
Don't really have time to look it up right now, but I thought that after the recounts were all finalized, Bush won both.

After all the recounts (including the independant recounts), Bush won the state of Florida, not the US popular vote.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by sleuth14
Don't really have time to look it up right now, but I thought that after the recounts were all finalized, Bush won both.

Nope. Gore had about half a million more votes, nationwide. Bush only won Florida by about 2,000 votes, which is why Gore wanted the recounts to keep on and on and on and on until the Democrats counting the ballots could come up with what he needed to win. The Supreme Court and Katherine Harris put an end to that illegal BS and voila! President Bush.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Nope. Gore had about half a million more votes, nationwide. Bush only won Florida by about 2,000 votes, which is why Gore wanted the recounts to keep on and on and on and on until the Democrats counting the ballots could come up with what he needed to win. The Supreme Court and Katherine Harris put an end to that illegal BS and voila! President Bush.

Oh well... that's a bummer.
At least the law gave us the best choice, even if the people were too stupid to do so.

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by dems4me


ummm... I know I'm opening up a can of worms... but that never seems to stop me.... I for one think that Gore won the popular vote and should have been elected pres. instead of Bush and Kathleen Turner as co-chair of Bush's campaign should have recussed herself . Sorry In Advance -- jmho

There is no such thing as "the popular vote". Oh sure, people tally these numbers, but it don't work that way.

And this strikes me as funny. See, everyone SEEMS to understand that the *primaries* more or less work the same way. You cast your vote, and a certain number of delegates then turn and vote for that person at the convention. Nobody whines about the "popular vote" at the Democratic convention, claiming that Edwards had the "popular" vote - Kerry has the delegates. That's how it works.

What also strikes me as funny is, during the election, there was some speculation that Bush might win the "popular" vote, but lose in the Electoral College. And everyone was just keen about that - "so what? it still makes Gore president!" chimed the Democrats, who thought it was just fine if it worked that way.

The other thing is - are people SOOOOO stupid? This has happened at least twice before, depending on how you count it - a president has won the election without getting the largest amount of votes.

I can't believe that in 2004, people are STILL upset, and still need to have the damned thing explained to them. This is how it works. Unlike the Florida recount rule-changing fiasco, THIS rule has been around for over 200 years.

 

[sleuth]

Although I am glad Bush was elected, I am in agreement that with today's technology (especially since the last election) and since pretty much EVERYONE has access to vote in some way, the Electoral College is outdated.

IMO, the presidency should be decided by the Popular Vote. It just makes sense. And if I'm not mistaken, the Electoral College was created because of problems making voting accessible to everyone and/or problems in tabulating the results.

 

[dems4me]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Nope. Gore had about half a million more votes, nationwide. Bush only won Florida by about 2,000 votes, which is why Gore wanted the recounts to keep on and on and on and on until the Democrats counting the ballots could come up with what he needed to win. The Supreme Court and Katherine Harris put an end to that illegal BS and voila! President Bush.

I remember all of this well... florida was supposed to do a state wide recount by their own law and instead Gore's legal team just picked a few counties... they never completed a state wide recount.... look at all the civil liberty lawsuits that were filed. Unfortunately where I work - we represented bush -- my friends all said they wish they could be a fly on the wall when discussing the situation with a certain someone... ughh... office politics...

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by SamSpade

I can't believe that in 2004, people are STILL upset, and still need to have the damned thing explained to them. This is how it works. Unlike the Florida recount rule-changing fiasco, THIS rule has been around for over 200 years.

Not upset, but many people on both sides feel the electoral college is outdated. But it is one of those things that has been around for ever, and people aren't quick to change

 

[dems4me]

Originally posted by SmallTown
Not upset, but many people on both sides feel the electoral college is outdated. But it is one of those things that has been around for ever, and people aren't quick to change

I agree, I think we should do away with the electoral college.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by dems4me
I agree, I think we should do away with the electoral college.

Funny, I bet you never had that thought until things went against you.


You know I am reminded by somethiing I read in Government class. I think it was John Adams who after losing to Jefferson and the opposing party that this was the first sincere test of the constitution and the strength of our democracy, when one party handed over power to its rival without bloodshed or bickering. I showed class, something the Democrats who whine about 2000 do not have.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by dems4me
I agree, I think we should do away with the electoral college.

Not me - I'm all about equal representation and not having less populated states and regions being held hostage politically by the urban areas. The popular election is in each state, then that state's winner gets those electoral votes. Works just fine. In fact, with previous elections, it's never been an issue because the popular vote and the electoral votes all gave the same results - a clear winner.

Hell, I'd even take it a step further and break the Electoral College down by district: Each Representative district counts the votes and gives their electoral vote to that candidate. The two left over electoral votes (because of the Senators) can go to whoever took the most electoral votes in the districts.

This is just more sour grapes whining by immature Democrats - when they win, the system is working fine. When they lose, they want to change everything so they WILL win.

 

[dems4me]

Originally posted by Pete
Funny, I bet you never had that thought until things went against you.


You know I am reminded by somethiing I read in Government class. I think it was John Adams who after losing to Jefferson and the opposing party that this was the first sincere test of the constitution and the strength of our democracy, when one party handed over power to its rival without bloodshed or bickering. I showed class, something the Democrats who whine about 2000 do not have.

you showed class??? were you at that election between Adams and Jefferson? I have class but that entire election thing was with me 24/7 for a long time... on tv, at work, back on tv, at work, etc..., etc....

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by dems4me
you showed class??? were you at that election between Adams and Jefferson? I have class but that entire election thing was with me 24/7 for a long time... on tv, at work, back on tv, at work, etc..., etc....

And the Dems lost and still to this day they refuse to show class and accept defeat. The keep on with this "stolen election" "he is not the real President" BTW, I show class in everything I do.

 

[dems4me]

Originally posted by Pete
And the Dems lost and still to this day they refuse to show class and accept defeat. The keep on with this "stolen election" "he is not the real President" BTW, I show class in everything I do.

It is just a sad fact of history... we don't keep bringing it up... I'm not one of those radical dems that drone on and one and on about it. I just can't wait for November this year!!! Wagers anyone???

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Not me - I'm all about equal representation and not having less populated states and regions being held hostage politically by the urban areas. The popular election is in each state, then that state's winner gets those electoral votes. Works just fine. In fact, with previous elections, it's never been an issue because the popular vote and the electoral votes all gave the same results - a clear winner.

Vrai, I'm no democrat and I still don't think it's a good system. It was back in the day, but times/technology is changed.

You're about equal representation by each state getting a number of votes based on its population.
I'm about equal representation where 1 person = 1 vote.

I won't be surprised one bit if this election ends in another nail-biter. The polls and peoples' collective stupidity still frighten me.

 

[FromTexas]

Originally posted by sleuth14
Vrai, I'm no democrat and I still don't think it's a good system. It was back in the day, but times/technology is changed.

You're about equal representation by each state getting a number of votes based on its population.
I'm about equal representation where 1 person = 1 vote.

I won't be surprised one bit if this election ends in another nail-biter. The polls and peoples' collective stupidity still frighten me.

Our country was never a true Democracy. It is a representative republic.

It was done this way not for voting reasons. It was done this way to appease for a compromise between states who were afraid of a central government with too much power over them.

If it was 1 person=1 vote, then candidates would not have to worry about how most of the midwest felt, how Hawaii or Alaska felt, or about any state issues. Essentially, cities would be electing the Presidents. Screw everyone else. You might as well just take votes from New York, California, and Texas.

Don't confuse it all with the myth we live in a true democracy. The Constitution gave us a representative republic. This is what was intended and it does matter.