Hypp

[Pasofever]

Absolutely well said, unfortunitly it may take a little longer for asd to be fully understood and what trial and error has produced or how it will evolve. A responsible breeder would try and stay away from hindering the breed.

I dont know why ASD came up in the HYPP thread anyway...I was answering to the girl that was asking about buying an HYPP horse...I do not know about ASD so I am NOT commenting on that...and people that do not know HYPP or have lived through it should not be giving advice to someone looking to buy one..

 

[jetmonkey]

http://inventorspot.com/articles/horses_reduce_stress_horseplay_c_6563

 

[happyappygirl]

After that I do not know how you could say you would breed and be happy with an HYPP N/H horse...:sad:

My response to this thread was comparing HYPP to ASD, and I discussed heteroyzygous (H/N) vs homozygous (H/H) expression of a characteristic (or in these cases, a disease).

In Heterozygous silver (possible ASD/cyctic) horses (Z/N), carrying one copy of the silver dilute, which is SUSPECTED as linked to ASD, the horse has no adverse affects.

In Heterozygous HYPP (H/N) horses they DO have terrible effects. I didn't know that.

 

[Pasofever]

My response to this thread was comparing HYPP to ASD, and I discussed heteroyzygous (H/N) vs homozygous (H/H) expression of a characteristic (or in these cases, a disease).

In Heterozygous silver (possible ASD/cyctic) horses (Z/N), carrying one copy of the silver dilute, which is SUSPECTED as linked to ASD, the horse has no adverse affects.

In Heterozygous HYPP (H/N) horses they DO have terrible effects. I didn't know that.

This was an HYPP thread from a young girl looking to buy an HYPP horse..you said as a breeder you would be happy with an N/H horse ...I would not tell this young girl to buy an HYPP horse myself...why was ASD brought up in the HYPP thread if it is not related...this thread again was about a kid wanting to buy an HYPP horse..

I am outta here I am getting pissed...

 

[happyappygirl]

I figured you did not know what you were talking about with HYPP...

the ONLY way to go with HYPP in my opinion (and I have had an HYPP horse for 5 yrs) I would NOT get another one..is to go N/N read up on it..then you will understand...even an N/N bred to an H/N will give you an H/N horse...Impressive (the problem horse with HYPP) is like 6 generations back in Rogers pedigree and it is my research that shows all are N/H and NO H/H horses in his background..

It's obviously a dominant gene like silver, since only one copy produces the effect on black (makes chocolate).

When you breed two chocolates (black horses with silver) together who each carries only one copy of the silver gene, you can get:

a chocolate ASD horse (double silver-also the most sought after color since their mane's are VERY white), or

a chocolate cystic horse, or

a black horse (no silver) but has cysts (happens all the time) or

you can get a clear eye'd black horse, usually homozygous black and can't produce silver ever.

It just depends on where the genes fall.

I guess this is why they still breed H/Ns together. There is still a chance to get a clear foal?

Is it the same with that awful skin disease related to the Poco Bueno lines?

 

[Pasofever]

Halter breeders still breed for HYPP H/H horses because if the muscling...Even the HYPP H/N horses have more muscling..Roger looks like a body builder with NO work at all..that is why they breed for it...It is a disease of the muscle..

I do not understand what the ADS is...what are the effects of it?

 

[happyappygirl]

This was an HYPP thread from a young girl looking to buy an HYPP horse..you said as a breeder you would be happy with an N/H horse ...I would not tell this young girl to buy an HYPP horse myself...why was ASD brought up in the HYPP thread if it is not related...this thread again was about a kid wanting to buy an HYPP horse..

I am outta here I am getting pissed...

Why would you be pissed??

When i said that, I was referring to being happy about NOT getting an H/H horse (and not having doubled up on the genes) by putting them together, and was speaking strictly in genetic terms!! I did NOT tell anyone to buy an HYPP horse OR that I'd be happy to PRODUCE a horse with one HYPP gene Paso.

I don't know anything about HYPP or even if ALL H/N horses are symptomatic. I still don't know. If they were ALL symptomatic, why does Roger have so many generations of H/N? Why would they even be ALIVE if they had terrible symptoms like Roger does???

 

[Pasofever]

I don't know anything about HYPP or even if ALL H/N horses are symptomatic. I still don't know. If they were ALL symptomatic, why does Roger have so many generations of H/N? Why would they even be ALIVE?

You did say N/H was non syptomatic ....that was indicating there is NOT a problem with it..It is a VERY touch subject for me....

It does not kill them all the time..I only know of 5 personally that have died from it...many many others people do not know what happens to them..it is a muscle problem the heart is a muscle ...they have a heart attack and die and people do not know what happened to them..

 

[Cowgirl]

Why would you be pissed??

When i said that, I was referring to being happy about NOT getting an H/H horse (and not having doubled up on the genes) by putting them together, and was speaking strictly in genetic terms!! I did NOT tell anyone to buy an HYPP horse OR that I'd be happy to PRODUCE a horse with one HYPP gene Paso.

I don't know anything about HYPP or even if ALL H/N horses are symptomatic. I still don't know. If they were ALL symptomatic, why does Roger have so many generations of H/N? Why would they even be ALIVE if they had terrible symptoms like Roger does???

I don't know of all hetero horses are symptomatic, but IMO, you should never breed any horse that carries the gene. If 1 out of 1000 horses shows signs, then that is 1 too many. Breeders should ONLY breed negative horses...and then hopefully we can eliminate this nasty disease.

 

[Robin]

My response to this thread was comparing HYPP to ASD, and I discussed heteroyzygous (H/N) vs homozygous (H/H) expression of a characteristic (or in these cases, a disease).

In Heterozygous silver (possible ASD/cyctic) horses (Z/N), carrying one copy of the silver dilute, which is SUSPECTED as linked to ASD, the horse has no adverse affects.

In Heterozygous HYPP (H/N) horses they DO have terrible effects. I didn't know that.

no comparison different problem different disorder

 

[appendixqh]

Ok...It is N/N (negative) N/H (heterozygous) and N/N (homozygous)

N/N means they don't have it, never will

N/H means they have it and have a 50% chance of passing the gene on when bred to a negative (N/N) horse

H/H means they have it and will pass it on to any offspring

There is no difference in how the disease presents itself between the H/H and N/H horses, only a difference probability of perpetuating the gene

This is a gene linked to Impressive, and not all N/H or H/H horses are symptomatic. I took in a 2 yr old one time that was H/H. She had some stressful situations, but never displayed a thing.

The gene linked to Poco Bueno is HERDA, totally different from HYPP. It is where the skin sags and starts looking like a Shar Pei dog, disgusting and sad.

 

[Cowgirl]

 

[happyappygirl]

You did say N/H was non syptomatic ....that was indicating there is NOT a problem with it..It is a VERY touch subject for me....

It does not kill them all the time..I only know of 5 personally that have died from it...many many others people do not know what happens to them..it is a muscle problem the heart is a muscle ...they have a heart attack and die and people do not know what happened to them..

I said I don't know HYPP and how it's expressed. My apologies for upsetting you....
ASD is only semi-dominant, and like palomino, doesn't breed true. When a horse inherits two of the dominant form ASD genes, one from each parent, the eyes of the horse will almost always show other differences in addition to the cysts. This is the horse that in lay terms has become known as the ASD horse. 90% of those ASD horses do not change over time. They are physical and developmental variations that occurred in the womb and are what you (or your vet) sees now and will be in the future. The variations are not a disease process, cause the horse no pain, and will not come and go or appear at a later time.

The only ASD related issue which does adversely affect the vision of the horse is one where the lens itself is out of proper position or is detached, and is in a very small number of horses. This is also the only ASD characteristic with a progressive component that will get worse over time. The detached lens will usually develop cloudiness that worsens with time. This cloudiness gives the appearance of being a "cataract" which it is not. This can only occur in the homozygous (double silver gene) chocolate horse, and AGAIN, can be diagnosed with a competent pre-purchase exam.

 

[happyappygirl]

Also interesting to note:

About 87% of horses that carry a single ASD gene will show cysts. The remaining 13% are silent carriers, and can pass on the gene to offspring to the same degree as horses whose genetic status is visible in an eye exam - that is, 50% of the time. These would be related to the silver carrying red horses, silver has no effect on red, and the black horses who carry the red gene.

Bottom line is, you will be VERY - and I mean VERY - hard pressed to find even one Rocky who doesn't have at least one ASD characteristic due to the prevalance of silver in this breed (which is ironically what makes it SO popular). I happen to own one. She is Chocolate Palomino, no silver. She LOOKS chocolate but her chocolate color is produced by the sorrel color plus the sooty gene under her beautiful cream induced palomino color which makes her appear chocolate colored. Did-ja get that?

BTW that silver gene is also linked to the many NICE, QUIET temperament characteristics in the breed too.

 

[Robin]

bottom line why do you want to breed horses and still breed horses that hve a genetic or inherited issue?
http://www.gaitedhorses.net/ASD.html

 

[happyappygirl]

bottom line why do you want to breed horses and still breed horses that hve a genetic or inherited issue?
http://www.gaitedhorses.net/ASD.html

BECAUSE......You will be VERY - and I mean VERY - hard pressed to find even one Rocky who doesn't have at least one ASD characteristic (both expressed and hidden) due to the prevalance of silver in this breed (again both expressed and hidden as in the red horses) - Chocolate is what makes the breed SO popular and RESPONSIBLE breeders (only the small breeders for now, unfortunately) are using color typing DNA to help make responsible decisions, AND we are looking to the other breeds who carry silver, and also have the chocolate color for breeding guidance. I posted a link to the Morgan project in a previous post below. I am a HUGE and very vocal advocate of using their breeding methods, and DNA as well, much to the chagrin of many big volume breeders

 

[Robin]

BECAUSE......You will be VERY - and I mean VERY - hard pressed to find even one Rocky who doesn't have at least one ASD characteristic (both expressed and hidden) due to the prevalance of silver in this breed (again both expressed and hidden as in the red horses) - Chocolate is what makes the breed SO popular and RESPONSIBLE breeders (only the small breeders for now, unfortunately) are using color typing DNA to help make responsible decisions, AND we are looking to the other breeds who carry silver, and also have the chocolate color for breeding guidance. I posted a link to the Morgan project in a previous post below. I am a HUGE and very vocal advocate of using their breeding methods, and DNA as well, much to the chagrin of many big volume breeders

O.K. so if you are trying to breed careful the data that I have found of ASD they do have horses in the Rocky Mountain Breed that do not show or have the problem. since it is the red gene and chocolate is popular it is OK to breed said horses and put them on the market and in your breeding programs I still call that poor breeding, and I am sure others would too. why do it? Color popularity? High sales?

 

[Pasofever]

bottom line why do you want to breed horses and still breed horses that hve a genetic or inherited issue?
http://www.gaitedhorses.net/ASD.html

Thank you Robin that helps me alot..I understand better now I did not know what it was at all..

 

[Robin]

Thank you Robin that helps me alot..I understand better now I did not know what it was at all..

I just do not know why breeders with all the technology and information available they still continue this practice.

 

[happyappygirl]

O.K. so if you are trying to breed careful the data that I have found of ASD they do have horses in the Rocky Mountain Breed that do not show or have the problem. since it is the red gene and chocolate is popular it is OK to breed said horses and put them on the market and in your breeding programs I still call that poor breeding, and I am sure others would too. why do it? Color popularity? High sales?

As I stated, there are a VERY limited number of Rockies who don't have cysts, and of those, 13% WILL be SILENT carriers (and how many who are really clear are geldings??). There is NO test for ASD. A true ASD horse will have several characteristics. A horse with cysts is NOT considered an ASD horse.

Furthermore, MOST people don't do DNA, nor do they get eye exams by an eye doctor. There aren't enough qualified vets to do it, within a reasonable distance to travel who are even familiar with it. Tidewater's vets didn't even know what it was when called to examine one I purchased and for a pre-purchase vet exam on another one, he had researched it on the internet just prior to coming over! I sent one back because she had a cloudy eye, was blind in that eye, so I wasn't confident that it was not ASD, and she was BLACK (no silver).

Many vets (or people really) haven't even SEEN a Pure bred, registered, DNA tested Rocky Mountain Horse. It IS a rare breed. I happen to have them, and am ahh....vocal, and get mine out a lot, as do several others on this board, but in many areas, people have never seen one, they've only heard about them. The registry isn't very big. And is closing. Read what you posted all the way to the end - you will understand what i am saying.