Hypp

[happyappygirl]

Thank you Robin that helps me alot..I understand better now I did not know what it was at all..

You didn't read the document I posted earlier. You would have.

 

[Pasofever]

I just do not know why breeders with all the technology and information available they still continue this practice.

Same as for the HYPP horse..you know we both know...he BREEDS FOR THE GENE....he WANTS it...then they sell off what they dont want to the non pro to deal with...

 

[Pasofever]

You didn't read the document I posted earlier. You would have.

Hers was easier to understand...

 

[happyappygirl]

I just do not know why breeders with all the technology and information available they still continue this practice.

Because the color typing tests are brand new. ASD is possibly linked to the silver gene, which is the very newest test, available just this year!! The silver gene can be hidden and is only semi-dominant.

And there IS NO TEST for ASD.

 

[Robin]

As I stated, there are a VERY limited number of Rockies who don't have cysts, and of those, 13% WILL be SILENT carriers (and how many who are really clear are geldings??). There is NO test for ASD. A true ASD horse will have several characteristics. A horse with cysts is NOT considered an ASD horse.

Furthermore, MOST people don't do DNA, nor do they get eye exams by an eye doctor. There aren't enough qualified vets to do it, within a reasonable distance to travel who are even familiar with it. Tidewater's vets didn't even know what it was when called to examine one I purchased and for a pre-purchase vet exam on another one, he had researched it on the internet just prior to coming over! I sent one back because she had a cloudy eye, was blind in that eye, so I wasn't confident that it was not ASD, and she was BLACK (no silver).

Many vets (or people really) haven't even SEEN a Pure bred, registered, DNA tested Rocky Mountain Horse. It IS a rare breed. I happen to have them, and am ahh....vocal, and get mine out a lot, as do several others on this board, but in many areas, people have never seen one, they've only heard about them. The registry isn't very big. And is closing. Read what you posted all the way to the end - you will understand what i am saying.

Happy I did read what I posted and the information I posted. that is also why there is a blue list in the arabian breed pure of the pure. they only breed to pure and there is not many here in the USA. They are an elite breed
Botton Line why do you personally want to breed these type of horses and keep those issues going further in the breed. Yes Chocolates are beautiful to look at but with the rist of bring the breed down why????

 

[happyappygirl]

Hers was easier to understand...

Hers was shorter. BUT it doesn't contain current up to date, usable true breeding information like the one i posted.

and yes, you are correct, the big breeders, who push out babies in bulk DO want just the $ on the color. I'm not disputing that.

Hopefully the little guys will make a difference somewhere along the line.

 

[happyappygirl]

Happy I did read what I posted and the information I posted. that is also why there is a blue list in the arabian breed pure of the pure. they only breed to pure and there is not many here in the USA. They are an elite breed
Botton Line why do you personally want to breed these type of horses and keep those issues going further in the breed. Yes Chocolates are beautiful to look at but with the rist of bring the breed down why????

Please see post number 14. I'll paraphrase:

Additionally, you CAN get that lovely chocolate color and NOT have the silver gene involved. I have a gorgeous Chocolate Palamino mare, who carries the sooty gene, and looks like a chocolate horse. I know she doesn't carry silver. She'd DNA'd. Check this website out: http://www.mindspring.com/~morgans/silvermorgans.htm
The morgan people are doing a ton of research too.

I've done a TON of research, and spent a TON of money on purchasing exquisite breeding stock, and DNA testing, on a breed I absolutely adore. And am frankly offended by a comment like yours. I'm outta here. I'm finished with this thread. Enjoy.

 

[SouthernMdRocks]

Having the pre-purchase done as a precaution...since he (was) going to be my stallion prospect, and is suppose to be homozygous (double) silver, i had the vet go in and do a complete exam on him, I wanted to know his eye/vision status BEFORE i wrote that big 'ole check (THANK GOODNESS). I got the call this morning. I'm pretty bummed...he had everything i wanted. I believe they are going to put him down. They just don't do a lot of vaccinating out there for some reason. Thanks for asking.

There is a anti serum they can get for him, it should save him. Has he developed any signs of it yet??

 

[Carefulone]

Same with my own Rocky breeding program. If my choice produces a foal who is pop-eye'd and obviously affected adversely, i would do the right thing and make a sad choice. That may not be what people want to hear, but it's the responsible thing, and i accept that responsibility, to potentially produce superior stock on all fronts.

The responsible thing to do would to not make breeding like a "crap" shoot....that's not a breeder in my book....sorry.....just to get a color is sick....and the RMHA isn't a small registry, it is a new registry and hopefully all of us that care about the breed will help to clean up the genetic defects....and ride the ride, not the color.

 

[Robin]

Same with my own Rocky breeding program. If my choice produces a foal who is pop-eye'd and obviously affected adversely, i would do the right thing and make a sad choice. That may not be what people want to hear, but it's the responsible thing, and i accept that responsibility, to potentially produce superior stock on all fronts.

The responsible thing to do would to not make breeding like a "crap" shoot....that's not a breeder in my book....sorry.....just to get a color is sick....and the RMHA isn't a small registry, it is a new registry and hopefully all of us that care about the breed will help to clean up the genetic defects....and ride the ride, not the color.

Ride the ride and not the color THANK YOU I believe a responsible Breeder to say something to that effect not keep going on and on about a certain color knowing that certain color was popular and bringing in the bucks. Those unfortunate individuals are the ones that bring down the breeds and spread the defective horses instead of bettering the breed. Sad that it took so many years for the registries to begin to back down registering those particular horses. Some of the biggest mistakes that turned a greedy bunch of breeders were the popular colors sell. this happens in dog breeds and cats as well.
This is a quote from someone who bred HYPP horses... I dont give a #### if the horse has a seisure and dies he better get me the blue ribbon first then he can drop dead outside the ring when we are done. This is what brings down the breeds also "HUMAN INTERFERENCE" Sometimes the breeders get so caught up with the popularity & ching ching it clouds their judgements.

 

[SouthernMdRocks]

Ride the ride and not the color THANK YOU I believe a responsible Breeder to say something to that effect not keep going on and on about a certain color knowing that certain color was popular and bringing in the bucks. Those unfortunate individuals are the ones that bring down the breeds and spread the defective horses instead of bettering the breed. Sad that it took so many years for the registries to begin to back down registering those particular horses. Some of the biggest mistakes that turned a greedy bunch of breeders were the popular colors sell. this happens in dog breeds and cats as well.
This is a quote from someone who bred HYPP horses... I dont give a #### if the horse has a seisure and dies he better get me the blue ribbon first then he can drop dead outside the ring when we are done. This is what brings down the breeds also "HUMAN INTERFERENCE" Sometimes the breeders get so caught up with the popularity & ching ching it clouds their judgements.

Hmmmm, terrible quote from an obvious arse but.... these ASD issues aren't just associated with RMH's, it is within several other breeds that are known for the choc/flaxen colors. I don't know if there are any chocolates out there that are cyst free and this goes all the way back to Tobe I'm sure. I have a chocolate mare that I breed to a clear eyed black rocky to be on the safe side,,, but as far as what Happy is saying, you are taking it wrong. She is doing alot of research to understand how to properly breed this line of horses so not to perpetuate the ASD issue.

 

[happyappygirl]

OK I lied....i'm back.

Robin, it's not about "breeding for the color". It's about being careful with a color modifier that is (possibly) linked to a genetic disorder, AND also necessary to get the BREED ASSOCIATED color...Silver/chocolate.

Anyone looking at purchasing this breed who has contacted ME says..."I'd REALLY like a chocolate and white one" because that's what the this breed is known for stunning Chocolate and white horses. Period. Same as the halflinger, there is a Palomino horse registry, Paints, and Appaloosas were at one time strictly a color registry...etc. etc.

Since I have become deeply involved in this breed, it has become evident that there IS a better way to balance genetic health and strong gaits, with producing a horse that is 1) Specific to what the breed is known FOR, Chocolate and white (or palomino or true black or roan, or whatever color i choose to produce) 2) Is HEALTHY and gaits strongly and 3) SELLS. I won't apoligize for that. That is what being a true, responsible "BREEDER" is all about. I'm not saying everyone in this breed does that....the big producers most definately don't, not yet anyway, but with enough people new to the breed, being vocal about doing the right thing a better way, and educating the public about the issues, perhaps a difference CAN be made.

I'm not going to excuse myself from a breed just because an issue is prevalent (ie: the silver gene in so many registered horses). I'm going to educate myself, and make it (hopefully) better one foal at a time. And if those foals sell like hotcakes BECAUSE they are the breed associated color, or another popular color (chocolate palomino, silver buckskin etc.)...so be it. I'm not going to argue with success,

 

[Robin]

Hmmmm, terrible quote from an obvious arse but.... these ASD issues aren't just associated with RMH's, it is within several other breeds that are known for the choc/flaxen colors. I don't know if there are any chocolates out there that are cyst free and this goes all the way back to Tobe I'm sure. I have a chocolate mare that I breed to a clear eyed black rocky to be on the safe side,,, but as far as what Happy is saying, you are taking it wrong. She is doing alot of research to understand how to properly breed this line of horses so not to perpetuate the ASD issue.

All the information out there states that it is not just the rockys that have this issue, however They do mention it tracing back to the stallion Tobe, simular to Impressive Stallion in the AQHA line HYPP with just this knowledge alone, It is a mutant gene why breed this type of horse just knowing this. Why the crap shoot?

 

[SouthernMdRocks]

I, by the way have a Rocky I adore, but has cataracts....and parrot mouth, from his sire....another perpetuating of a genetic defect, people know to stay clear of the line, but yet it's desirable....just to get chocolate....

Who are the parents to your Rocky? I know of one stallion who seems to produce horses with issues but they continue to stud him out. :shrug:

 

[Cowgirl]

Hmmmm, terrible quote from an obvious arse but.... these ASD issues aren't just associated with RMH's, it is within several other breeds that are known for the choc/flaxen colors. I don't know if there are any chocolates out there that are cyst free and this goes all the way back to Tobe I'm sure. I have a chocolate mare that I breed to a clear eyed black rocky to be on the safe side,,, but as far as what Happy is saying, you are taking it wrong. She is doing alot of research to understand how to properly breed this line of horses so not to perpetuate the ASD issue.

What I don't understand is, if there is a certain color (or colors) that typically carry genetic flaws, don't breed for that color! Who cares if there will not be any more chocolate/silver/whatever color of a breed? If that color horse is typically afflicted by a genetic disease, the breed will be better off without it!!! Horses aren't supposed to be "designer" animals.

 

[Robin]

What I don't understand is, if there is a certain color (or colors) that typically carry genetic flaws, don't breed for that color! Who cares if there will not be any more chocolate/silver/whatever color of a breed? If that color horse is typically afflicted by a genetic disease, the breed will be better off without it!!! Horses aren't supposed to be "designer" animals.[/QUOTE
exactly

 

[Robin]

Who are the parents to your Rocky? I know of one stallion who seems to produce horses with issues but they continue to stud him out. :shrug:

There are still folks breeding the Impressive lineage because they dont care

 

[Robin]

OK I lied....i'm back.

Robin, it's not about "breeding for the color". It's about being careful with a color modifier that is (possibly) linked to a genetic disorder, AND also necessary to get the BREED ASSOCIATED color...Silver/chocolate.

Anyone looking at purchasing this breed who has contacted ME says..."I'd REALLY like a chocolate and white one" because that's what the this breed is known for stunning Chocolate and white horses. Period. Same as the halflinger, there is a Palomino horse registry, Paints, and Appaloosas were at one time strictly a color registry...etc. etc.

Since I have become deeply involved in this breed, it has become evident that there IS a better way to balance genetic health and strong gaits, with producing a horse that is 1) Specific to what the breed is known FOR, Chocolate and white (or palomino or true black or roan, or whatever color i choose to produce) 2) Is HEALTHY and gaits strongly and 3) SELLS. I won't apoligize for that. That is what being a true, responsible "BREEDER" is all about. I'm not saying everyone in this breed does that....the big producers most definately don't, not yet anyway, but with enough people new to the breed, being vocal about doing the right thing a better way, and educating the public about the issues, perhaps a difference CAN be made.

I'm not going to excuse myself from a breed just because an issue is prevalent (ie: the silver gene in so many registered horses). I'm going to educate myself, and make it (hopefully) better one foal at a time. And if those foals sell like hotcakes BECAUSE they are the breed associated color, or another popular color (chocolate palomino, silver buckskin etc.)...so be it. I'm not going to argue with success,

In your words I am translating you are breeding because of color and what sells?

 

[SouthernMdRocks]

All the information out there states that it is not just the rockys that have this issue, however They do mention it tracing back to the stallion Tobe, simular to Impressive Stallion in the AQHA line HYPP with just this knowledge alone, It is a mutant gene why breed this type of horse just knowing this. Why the crap shoot?

If one just breeds without taking these issues into consideration then it is indeed a crap shoot. Tobe is a foundation sire, but since this ASD is associated with other breeds it seem apparent to me that Tobe is not the "cause" of the ASD in the line, unlike Impressive who was the main carrier of the HYPP. The silver dapple modifier is the culprit, one just has to be careful to breed to clear eyed horses if breeding chocs.

 

[Robin]

If one just breeds without taking these issues into consideration then it is indeed a crap shoot. Tobe is a foundation sire, but since this ASD is associated with other breeds it seem apparent to me that Tobe is not the "cause" of the ASD in the line, unlike Impressive who was the main carrier of the HYPP. The silver dapple modifier is the culprit, one just has to be careful to breed to clear eyed horses if breeding chocs.

With all the reading that has been posted and the 20 or more other updated articles on ASD it is extremely dominant in the Chocolate color. How can you be careful about that type of breeding almost all the articles some how state that the Tobe line was dominate with this issue. Chocolates (color) is hindering the top quality Rocky Mountain Horse Breed.