I hate "Vegans" and here is another reason why!

[virgovictoria]

...with you there.

Where I do argue is that is it a fact that abortion is murder as well. It just is. So, to get all worked up over a couple of morons starving their kid to death isn't something that comes readily to me either reflexively or intellectually given I have been told, in no uncertain, terms since I was a kid that it is a woman's RIGHT to choose whether or not to have her unborn gotten rid of.

A mom starves her kid to death = life in jail

1,00,000 abortions this year = not even a ticket.

I guess Stalin had a point; Seems a death is a tragedy. A million is merely a statistic.

I am sure there are numerous threads in which you can rally your opinion on abortion. This simply isn't an abortion thread. Nor, IMO, does it carry relevance substantial enough to continue to post statement of debate.

I feel, if you want to argue on the opinion of what is worse, euthanizing the infant at birth or dragging it out mercilessly and starving it for six weeks while a hospital resides within walking distance? I'm temped to say that although they should get life for either situation, at least the infant's organs would not have been eating it's own body's nutrients in order to survive. The infant should have been granted grace if the vegan idiots were going to play god.

 

[MMDad]

I understand the point that you are trying to make, however, I disagree with you using this case as a political stance against abortion. They starved their child to death and the abortion argument does not forgive this.

Larry, please read what she wrote over and over again until you understand it.

 

[Larry Gude]

Why not?

I understand the point that you are trying to make, however, I disagree with you using this case as a political stance against abortion. They starved their child to death and the abortion argument does not forgive this.

...how is this any more offensive or henious than 'just turn on the shop vac and get it over with'?

 

[Larry Gude]

I'm not trying to turn it into...

I am sure there are numerous threads in which you can rally your opinion on abortion. This simply isn't an abortion thread. Nor, IMO, does it carry relevance substantial enough to continue to post statement of debate.

I feel, if you want to argue on the opinion of what is worse, euthanizing the infant at birth or dragging it out mercilessly and starving it for six weeks while a hospital resides within walking distance? I'm temped to say that although they should get life for either situation, at least the infant's organs would not have been eating it's own body's nutrients in order to survive. The infant should have been granted grace if the vegan idiots were going to play god.

...an abortion debate; my argument started with whether or not they deserve jail and life in jail for staring their infant to death. It just so happens that abortion provides a handy context, and I think, legitimate context.

 

[SoMDMama82]

...how is this any more offensive or henious than 'just turn on the shop vac and get it over with'?

I am not pro-abortion; but I feel you can not compare abortion to starving a infant! With abortion the baby does not suffer for 6 weeks! There IS a difference between the two.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ps...

I am sure there are numerous threads in which you can rally your opinion on abortion. This simply isn't an abortion thread. Nor, IMO, does it carry relevance substantial enough to continue to post statement of debate.

...I am not trying to rally some anti abortion thing either. I think abortion is reality in this nation and I think it should be because you can not make someone want to bare children and care for them and love them BUT if we're going to accept the argument that a woman can choose in and of herself to make the decision, whatever her reasons and motivations and it's gonna be more common than people dying of heart disease, then I can't get worked up about this case and the sanction imposed while yesterday, today and tomorrow and so on some 3,000 more unborn got tossed in the trash.

We're arguing levels of grotesqueness here.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yes and I agree...

I am not pro-abortion; but I feel you can not compare abortion to starving a infant! With abortion the baby does not suffer for 6 weeks! There IS a difference between the two.

...and the question is "is the difference relevant?"

From what I know, this infant died based on their beliefs. They didn't chop it's head off. They didn't throw it out the window. In short, as I understand it, they didn't mean this to happen. Maybe they smirked in front of the judge and the jury felt they did maliciously kill the infant? Does anyone know? Did they love this infant, hug it and hold and care for it as they saw fit? That would change my opinion. Maybe they're just that stupid and/or delusional? Are they heart broke? Devastated? This is just horrible and makes me sick but I don't see, based on what I've read, that they belong in jail for this.

I have to give the jury credit for being the ones passing judgement. Maybe they are monsters?

 

[MMDad]

...

You certainly are stubborn, aren't you? You are starting to make JPC look rational.

 

[SoMDMama82]

...and the question is "is the difference relevant?"

From what I know, this infant died based on their beliefs. They didn't chop it's head off. They didn't throw it out the window. In short, as I understand it, they didn't mean this to happen. Maybe they smirked in front of the judge and the jury felt they did maliciously kill the infant? Does anyone know? Did they love this infant, hug it and hold and care for it as they saw fit? That would change my opinion. Maybe they're just that stupid and/or delusional? Are they heart broke? Devastated? This is just horrible and makes me sick but I don't see, based on what I've read, that they belong in jail for this.

I have to give the jury credit for being the ones passing judgement. Maybe they are monsters?

First of all, I don't buy for one second that it was their lifestyle that caused this. My daughter CAN'T have mild products, so she drinks SOY FORMULA. She also now is old enough to have FRUIT baby food. She just happens to be on a vegan diet. She's a healthy, chubby, 15 lb 5 month old. So that's just to cover up the fact that they NEGLECTED their infant, and STARVED the baby to death! And any idiot with half a brain should know you if their infant looks like a skeleton, SOMETHING IS WRONG!

 

[Larry Gude]

Now...

You certainly are stubborn, aren't you? You are starting to make JPC look rational.

...is it the case that insulting me is your way of saying you can't deal with the argument or is it your way of saying I, Larry, am flat wrong and have no point?


FACT: An infant died of neglect.

Accusation: Prosecutor; they're not vegans, they're baby killers.

Defense; Say's they did the best they could while adhering to their vegan lifestyle.

To consider; this is nothing new; READ IT

http://www.atforumz.com/archive/index.php/t-130820.html


I have found nothing, so far, that says these people were intentionally malicious. I have read plenty that says this is what they, vegans, some of them anyway, think and how they behave.

Stubborn people tend to call other people stubborn when they don't get their way. I am saying there is more to this than monsters killing babies. You're saying that is ALL there is to it. I'm willing to consider your 'baby killers and that's all they are' position and have written several times that if there is evidence that there is more to it than a couple of kooks offing their kid, I could change my mind.

If not, the fact that they starved it to death does not show malicious intent. It does not show two people who belong behind bars. They didn't kill your kid or my kid or anyone else's. They are not forcing their ways on someone else's kid. They are, from what I know, zero threat to society other than their infant.

 

[Larry Gude]

I'll wait until...

First of all, I don't buy for one second that it was their lifestyle that caused this. My daughter CAN'T have mild products, so she drinks SOY FORMULA. She also now is old enough to have FRUIT baby food. She just happens to be on a vegan diet. She's a healthy, chubby, 15 lb 5 month old. So that's just to cover up the fact that they NEGLECTED their infant, and STARVED the baby to death! And any idiot with half a brain should know you if their infant looks like a skeleton, SOMETHING IS WRONG!

...you've read my post before this before I address what you do and don't by. It ain't hard to find other incidences of vegans killing their infant with what they seem to think is a just fine diet.

As for as them being 'any idiots', again, this is nothing new and FWIW, I personally consider 'vegan' crazy in and of itself and I agree they KILLED THEIR KID.

 

[Cowgirl]

...I am not trying to rally some anti abortion thing either. I think abortion is reality in this nation and I think it should be because you can not make someone want to bare children and care for them and love them BUT if we're going to accept the argument that a woman can choose in and of herself to make the decision, whatever her reasons and motivations and it's gonna be more common than people dying of heart disease, then I can't get worked up about this case and the sanction imposed while yesterday, today and tomorrow and so on some 3,000 more unborn got tossed in the trash.

We're arguing levels of grotesqueness here.

So Larry, you're pretty much saying that if it's ok to kill your FETUS by having an abortion, it's ok to kill your 6 week old baby..because hell, it's YOUR baby.

Are you saying it is ok to kill a baby up to only a certain age? Because hell, 6, 7, 8 weeks etc. I could've had an abortion and it was ok then?

Your argument is rediculous. This couple murdered their baby....regardless of how old their baby was, it is still murder. They deserve to rot in jail.

Before a baby is born, it's considered a fetus, not a baby. That's just the way it is. :shrug:

 

[Larry Gude]

Is it that simple?

So Larry, you're pretty much saying that if it's ok to kill your FETUS by having an abortion, it's ok to kill your 6 week old baby..because hell, it's YOUR baby.

Are you saying it is ok to kill a baby up to only a certain age? Because hell, 6, 7, 8 weeks etc. I could've had an abortion and it was ok then?

Your argument is rediculous. This couple murdered their baby....regardless of how old their baby was, it is still murder. They deserve to rot in jail.

Before a baby is born, it's considered a fetus, not a baby. That's just the way it is. :shrug:

Day before you're born; it's called an abortion.
Day after: It's murder

2 days before; abortion
2 days after; murder

3 days, a week, a month, 2 months?

If the child had died within a few days of birth due to this diet would that still be murder? That it survived six weeks and that there are numerous other cases of this same, exact thing with vegans tells me that they probably didn't mean for it to happen.

Some people withhold medicine just about all of us would consider routine from their kids because their faith is so strong and the kids die. Some vegans withhold what just about all of us would consider normal nutrition.

They starved their child to death. We're gonna lock them up until they die.

Guess that's easier than dealing with abortion where you mean for death to occur.

 

[virgovictoria]

Day before you're born; it's called an abortion.
Day after: It's murder

2 days before; abortion
2 days after; murder

3 days, a week, a month, 2 months?

If the child had died within a few days of birth due to this diet would that still be murder? That it survived six weeks and that there are numerous other cases of this same, exact thing with vegans tells me that they probably didn't mean for it to happen.

Some people withhold medicine just about all of us would consider routine from their kids because their faith is so strong and the kids die. Some vegans withhold what just about all of us would consider normal nutrition.

They starved their child to death. We're gonna lock them up until they die.

Guess that's easier than dealing with abortion where you mean for death to occur.

I'm just a little confused... In what state(s) is it legal to abort a fetus once it is viable (no longer needing a "host", if you will) other than when it is under extreme circumstance?

 

[MMDad]

...is it the case that insulting me is your way of saying you can't deal with the argument or is it your way of saying I, Larry, am flat wrong and have no point?

:shrug:

I am sure there are numerous threads in which you can rally your opinion on abortion. This simply isn't an abortion thread. Nor, IMO, does it carry relevance substantial enough to continue to post statement of debate.

 

[Larry Gude]

As I understand it...

I'm just a little confused... In what state(s) is it legal to abort a fetus once it is viable (no longer needing a "host", if you will) other than when it is under extreme circumstance?

...all of them until this passed;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-Birth_Abortion_Ban_Act

Seems that about 85% of the 1,300,000 a year are first trimester meaning about about 200,000 a year are later.

Are we gonna debate at what point it is a human being?

 

[Larry Gude]

Did you read...

:shrug:

...the link I posted?

 

[Cowgirl]

Day before you're born; it's called an abortion.
Day after: It's murder

2 days before; abortion
2 days after; murder

3 days, a week, a month, 2 months?

If the child had died within a few days of birth due to this diet would that still be murder? That it survived six weeks and that there are numerous other cases of this same, exact thing with vegans tells me that they probably didn't mean for it to happen.

The fact that they had 6 weeks to prevent the problem or correct it once they knew there was a problem makes this even worse. They could see their child becoming a living skeleton, but did NOTHING to correct it. That right there is pathetic.

Some people withhold medicine just about all of us would consider routine from their kids because their faith is so strong and the kids die. Some vegans withhold what just about all of us would consider normal nutrition.

I don't agree with people refusing to vaccinate children either...but neglecting to feed children properly can't be compared to refusing to vaccinate. And it's total BS that they claim they fed that diet because they were vegan. There were other options out there.

They starved their child to death. We're gonna lock them up until they die.

So what's the problem? They killed their baby. What if the kid was 5 years old and they starved it to death? Would you feel differently then?

Guess that's easier than dealing with abortion where you mean for death to occur.

Separate issue. This was not a fetus, it was a baby.

 

[virgovictoria]

Recap of Larry's feeling's as they pertain to the issue:

Yes, they killed their child.
No, they don't deserve life behind bars.

Fair enough, Larry? :shrug: I would suggest that comparing serial killers to this infant-starving couple might better prove your agenda. IMHO. All victims had opportunity to breathe O2.

 

[Tinkerbell]

I think a baby is considered murdered if the baby has ever taken a breath. If a baby is found wrapped in a plastic bag, as long as that baby never took a breath (and they have ways of knowing), it isn't murder. I'm not sure if that's in ALL states, but I know it's the case in some states. However, if the baby had taken even ONE breath, that's murder.

A fetus never takes a breath, a 6 week old baby does. And while I think abortion is murder too, the law is what it is. So, they murdered the baby and you go to jail for that. The manner of death was cruel, warranting a long sentence.