Illegal Immigrants Plan Nationwide Boycott

[Bruzilla]

Now illegals aren't the same as all that - but I have known several illegals, and a handful of 'potential' LEGALS whose aim was to come here strictly to take advantage of our tax situation, salary, benefits, all the while DESPISING the American way of life, and publicly proclaiming it - and if given the opportunity, to injure it as much as they could. They hate this place, but they don't mind a little cherry-picking here and there. It would be as though you invited someone to live in your house, and they wiped their hands on your curtains, and put their cigarettes out on your counters.

There's a similar situation arising in Europe - Arabs, in Europe, who have formed their onw little communities and for what it's worth - have re-created versions of their homeland in the new nation with NO INTENTION of assimilating. It's causing trouble already. They've declared the intent of remaining separate, and I gotta ask - if it's so great to have this culture - why did you have to move 1000 miles from your homeland, where it obviously didn't do YOU any good?

I think you're living with blinders on. Did you know that there are tens of thousands of Americans living abroad, not because they have to (military/business related) but because they want to? And most all of these people do not renounce their American citizenship. They keep it because they might want to come back some day, and they want the benefits of being an American. Most of the folks live like kings where they are because they can take a retirement or other fixed income that would leave them broke in the US, supplement it with some local money, and live the high life because the local economy is so poor they can get a huge house and servants for less than what a trailer would cost them back home. Yet they have no intention of aclimating themselves to the local country.

American ex-pats are no different than Mexican ex-pats aside from volume. They both act the same way... cherry pickers.

 

[Bruzilla]

There talk this morning on the radio about immigration issues in France. The French leadership is saying that if they want to come here, they have to learn the language and follow their rules. If they don't like it, they can feel free to leave.

guess we can start eating french fries again?

The real issue with the French isn't language, it's religion. The thought of them becoming Muslim state terrifies them.

 

[Pete]

My point was not about countries out-pacing americans in the classroom. American companies in the Computer/IT and engineering sectors are specifically targeting canidates from the countries I mentioned. Even to the point of specifying on job listings that only canidates from these countries need apply. Why, because these people will work for lower wages, thus driving down salaries for american technology types.

And no, I don't do Wal-Mart!

Air, everyone is outpacing America because of 3 reasons.

1. We have catered to our "impoverished" out of some strange guilt with give away programs, in fact wrecking work ethic. Joe Blow figures it is beneath him to dig a ditch for $9 an hour so he shacks up with beebee momma and their 4 kids and lives off welfare or gets any of the number of "programs" which keep him dumb and rewards him for staying home. We have cultivated a socio-economic class who will not work.

2. The unwed mother with multiple children. It is more economically feasible to stay home on TANF than to work. BeeBee daddies are not paying support because of toothless child support enforcement.

3. The crushing bureaucracy put on employers by our government and runaway unions. We have made it nearly impossible to make anything "Made in America" that can compete with "Made in Malaysia".

 

[Toxick]

eekingoutoftherubble:

Does the republic still stand?

I'm afraid to look outside, in fear that the nationwide boycott has destroyed our economy, brought the nation to its knees, shattering the dream under Old Glory, leaving the scattered remnants of the population in anarachy and chaos, hunting and killing for mere survival.


Or are we still cool?

 

[SmallTown]

The real issue with the French isn't language, it's religion. The thought of them becoming Muslim state terrifies them.

They spoke about language, not religion :shrug:

 

[Pete]

I think you're living with blinders on. Did you know that there are tens of thousands of Americans living abroad, not because they have to (military/business related) but because they want to? And most all of these people do not renounce their American citizenship. They keep it because they might want to come back some day, and they want the benefits of being an American. Most of the folks live like kings where they are because they can take a retirement or other fixed income that would leave them broke in the US, supplement it with some local money, and live the high life because the local economy is so poor they can get a huge house and servants for less than what a trailer would cost them back home. Yet they have no intention of aclimating themselves to the local country.

American ex-pats are no different than Mexican ex-pats aside from volume. They both act the same way... cherry pickers.

Except the American ex-patriots are abroad legally and they are not wrecking sectors of the foreign countries industries.

 

[LexiGirl75]

...Another thing, it's just not about hispanics anymore. There is a decline in white collar wages as well. The biggest hit; Computer Sciences, and engineering. Now Coorporate America is seeking these canidates from India, Pakisitan, Korea, and Thailand. Why...well, the same reason American Express has major financial operational sites in India!

Very interesting you brought this up. I saw a segment of Fox morning news where they showed a caucasian guy who had his own business (I believe tech) and he moved to another country and moved his company there. He now has I believe India/Pakistan people working his country and his wife is also Middle Eastern and they have children.

I thought that was the wildest move I had ever seen. Simply because I didn't see any of his own family members. I just can't imagine someone picking up and leaving and starting a new life, business, family all in another country. It's not far-fetch (now) but just odd. I wish I could pull the article.

 

[Bruzilla]

I hope you don't shop at Wal-Mart or any other big box retailer. If you believe in your argument, then American service jobs that have been outcompeted in the marketplace should be on equal footing with American factory jobs that were long ago shipped overseas.

If we can't compete that's our own fault for letting our education system slip to, at best, even-par with SE Asia. And if we don't step it up, in the long run, we'll lose. Corporations will do what makes sense for them. They don't owe us or our government anything.

A few points here... First, the much vaunted Asian education system is based on rote memorization. This makes for people who can quickly absorb a lot of information, but who can't use it very creatively, nor adapt the knowledge to cover different situations. That's why the best of the Asians need to come here rather than work in what should be thriving local economies. The US education system is different. We provide less information, but we also teach students how to utlilize their knowledge, and that takes more time than a rote structure. For example, the creative engineers at Phillips can create the VCR, the Japanese enginners at Panasonic can take the original and figure how best to mass produce it.

As for companies hiring overseas, that's a trend that's coming to an end - particularly in the customer service arena. Americans know if they are speaking to another American or a foreigner who has learned English as a second language, and foreign workers have a tough time dealing with us when we speak "outside the lines" that they are trained to understand. Citibank and Prudential just pulled all their overseas customer service work out of India and moved it to Jacksonville, FL a year or so ago and many other companies are doing the same.

When it comes to manufacturing jobs, the problem we face is that we are raising our kids to expect to live as good as mom and dad do coming out of high school or college. They all want a nice house, cable TV, a nice car, nice clothes, cell phones, etc. When my parents grew up, the necessities were a roof, basic clothes, and access to transportation (bike, bus, feet, car.) Kids today think that necessities include a picture phone, PAC SUN clothes, an import racer, big screen HDTV, etc. Nobody wants to work at a low-level manufacturing shop for minimum wage for a few years until they can work themselves up anymore. The only way that manufacturers can attract a workforce is to ramp up the salaries, which drives up the costs of the product. And most Amercians won't pay for a made-in-the-USA product if they can get an import for half as much. Our consumerism has led to the demise of domestic manufacturing far more than the education system.

 

[Agee]

Air, everyone is outpacing America because of 3 reasons.

1. We have catered to our "impoverished" out of some strange guilt with give away programs, in fact wrecking work ethic. Joe Blow figures it is beneath him to dig a ditch for $9 an hour so he shacks up with beebee momma and their 4 kids and lives off welfare or gets any of the number of "programs" which keep him dumb and rewards him for staying home. We have cultivated a socio-economic class who will not work.

2. The unwed mother with multiple children. It is more economically feasible to stay home on TANF than to work. BeeBee daddies are not paying support because of toothless child support enforcement.

3. The crushing bureaucracy put on employers by our government and runaway unions. We have made it nearly impossible to make anything "Made in America" that can compete with "Made in Malaysia".

Good points emphasized in typical Pete fashion

Regardless of the realities or perceptions, I was PO'd and had to vent. Besides I had a decent wine buzz

 

[Pete]

When it comes to manufacturing jobs, the problem we face is that we are raising our kids to expect to live as good as mom and dad do coming out of high school or college. They all want a nice house, cable TV, a nice car, nice clothes, cell phones, etc. When my parents grew up, the necessities were a roof, basic clothes, and access to transportation (bike, bus, feet, car.) Kids today think that necessities include a picture phone, PAC SUN clothes, an import racer, big screen HDTV, etc. Nobody wants to work at a low-level manufacturing shop for minimum wage for a few years until they can work themselves up anymore. The only way that manufacturers can attract a workforce is to ramp up the salaries, which drives up the costs of the product. And most Amercians won't pay for a made-in-the-USA product if they can get an import for half as much. Our consumerism has led to the demise of domestic manufacturing far more than the education system.

bravo

 

[Toxick]

Joe Blow figures it is beneath him to dig a ditch for $9 an hour so he shacks up with beebee momma and their 4 kids and lives off welfare

I find it wildly fascinating that someone could be too proud to take a ditch-digging job, but not too proud to take a government hand-out check.

 

[ylexot]

I find it wildly fascinating that someone could be too proud to take a ditch-digging job, but not too proud to take a government hand-out check.

I don't think it's pride. I think it's "welfare is easy" vs. "ditch digging is work".

 

[Pete]

I find it wildly fascinating that someone could be too proud to take a ditch-digging job, but not too proud to take a government hand-out check.

I think "pride" is a facade that attempts to disguise "lazy". In reality perception has changed in recent decades due to socialist movement and liberal guilt. When I was a kid, the "Free / reduced school lunch" paperwork came home every year and mom promptly threw it in the trash every year without even looking at it. The thought of getting a "handout" was insulting and totally unacceptable. Keyword "Handout". Now government "assistance" is not considered a "handout" it is considered an "entitlement". Gone is the stigma of accepting "charity" because the "assistance" is now viewed as a "right" that is owed.

In Roosevelt's time we had the WPA and other work programs sponsored by the government where the unemployed and impoverished would work for their money. In those days the typical wage earner was male and 1 breadwinner could support a family. Now your typical TANF recipient is a single mother with multiple kids and absentee beebee daddies. She does not work because daycare costs would negate any wage.

Today we could theoretically concoct work programs to "employ" instead of "fund". Unfortunately crappy work ethic in government, politics, and bureauocracy would make administering a work program so insanely expensive it is easier for government to just say "Take your check and go away"

The main causes are:

The destruction of the nuclear family.

Moral corruption and decay.

Crushing bureauocracy.

National inefficiency.

 

[SamSpade]

A Our consumerism has led to the demise of domestic manufacturing far more than the education system.

You know, I listen to Jerry Doyle on the drive home - and most of the time, I agree with him, but I can't for the life of me understand why it's so terrible that we're losing our primacy in manufacturing. So what? Is manufacturing the only measure of wealth for a nation? Don't we eventually move on from that?

When I first graduated from college, I'd only ever pushed a broom or swung a hammer for a living - it somehow 'seemed' wrong to take a job that wasn't 'visibly' creating wealth. Is that our problem? We have to build computers rather than design them? Manufacture drugs, rather than research them?

 

[Pete]

You know, I listen to Jerry Doyle on the drive home - and most of the time, I agree with him, but I can't for the life of me understand why it's so terrible that we're losing our primacy in manufacturing. So what? Is manufacturing the only measure of wealth for a nation? Don't we eventually move on from that?

When I first graduated from college, I'd only ever pushed a broom or swung a hammer for a living - it somehow 'seemed' wrong to take a job that wasn't 'visibly' creating wealth. Is that our problem? We have to build computers rather than design them? Manufacture drugs, rather than research them?

The problem is that if we were a nation of only engineers it would be fine. We have people for the entire spectrum. If all of our manufacturing jobs are shipped away, and our service industry is done by illegals what will the 70% of the population do for a living?

What happens when the dollar tanks against the Peso and that shirt that costs $20 now costs $50 or the Ipod costs $1000?

 

[2ndAmendment]

I'd like to see some stats on how many are here just for the dollars and how many are here for the opportunity?

I'm also not sure about how we resolve our feelings towards the new immigrants. I think if you looked back in time, we've always had some contempt for the new group on the block, especially if there was one group/nationality making up the majority/plurality of the new immigrants. I can't figure out if we are approaching things differently this time around? Is it because there are illegals in the mix?

No one is complaining at all about legal immigration; certainly not me. How many times does it have to be posted for you to get it that the uproar is about illegals wanting amnesty, citizenship without going through the process, and all the rights of citizenship without being a citizen. If you have comprehension problems, let us know, and we'll type slower.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Well the ONLY thing i saw in DC (2 blocks from the white house) was the ONE day i decide to walk to Mickey Ds it's CLOSEd because this particular franchise is Mexican owned, and that's ALL that works there. So what did i do? walked a half a block to the Japanese owned restaurant, where there was PLENTY of food No impact on me. Just a lost days wages and income for the owner, i hope it was worth it to him. Maybe now he'll teach his employees to speak ENGLISH.

Did you learn something? Do not patronize the McD's that was closed. If everyone that is not Hispanic did that, the McD's franchisee would lose his franchise.

Consumers and business owners forget a very basic rule of business. You, the customer, represent profit. Everyone associated with the business including the owner represent overhead.

 

[dck4shrt]

No one is complaining at all about legal immigration; certainly not me. How many times does it have to be posted for you to get it that the uproar is about illegals wanting amnesty, citizenship without going through the process, and all the rights of citizenship without being a citizen. If you have comprehension problems, let us know, and we'll type slower.

Your earlier comments:

No, because people from those cultures have by and large assimilated into and added to the culture of the United States. There is a big difference between the new Hispanic immigrants, legal and illegal. They may not even like being here at all. They are here to take advantage of the system and not add to the culture. Obviously, this is a broad stroke and does not apply to all Hispanic immigrants, but it does apply to many. It certainly applies to the ones that fly the American flag upside down or below the Mexican flag and the ones that refuse to learn English.

It sounds to me like you are complaining about legal and illegal Hispanic immigrants all in one swoop. I fully understand what the uproar is about, but the conversation keeps going towards shifts in our culture in the face of Hispanics immigrating to this country, legally or illegally...

 

[SamSpade]

Your earlier comments:



It sounds to me like you are complaing about legal and illegal Hispanic immigrants all in one swoop. I fully understand what the uproar is about, but the conversation keeps going towards shifts in our culture in the face Hispanics immigrating to this country, legally or illegally...

You may have noticed that the thread is titled "Illegal Immigrants Plan Nationwide Boycott". Keep that in mind, because that IS the issue we're discussing.

There's no question that the anger is primarily reserved for the illegals. That's why they're marching in the first place.

 

[dck4shrt]

You may have noticed that the thread is titled "Illegal Immigrants Plan Nationwide Boycott". Keep that in mind, because that IS the issue we're discussing.

There's no question that the anger is primarily reserved for the illegals. That's why they're marching in the first place.

I'm aware of that. I'm just trying to see where all the sources of that anger are coming from. If it's cultural differences that anger us then we have to look within, as well, to the solution. If it's just because they are here ilegally, then the solution (in principal) is easy. I didn't introduce the cultural differences into the debate, I just tried to point it out.