I'm wondering...

[Mikeinsmd]

Reposted:
Here's the question I would pose to those who are trying to find "proof" of the existance of God: What if God existed on another plane or dimension on a level indetectable to the current scientific methods and observations? What if He existed trancendent to Space/Time continuum? Afterall, there are scientists who propose mathematically in quantum physics that there may be as many as ten dimensions, yet we haven't been able to see these dimensions. This would then put God out of reach to the known physical world, yet it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, you just can't prove God by scientific means. Perhaps He planned it this way so that we can find Him in the only way He desires us to know him: through the spirit in man.
What if the only way to know God is through the God-given spirit in man which originated from Him? In connecting God through our spirit with His Spirit, we can know who He is and know His love for us without trying to figure Him out. I know this seems subjective, but when there are people in all different religions claiming on seeing visions of God, dreams of God, coincidences that defy reason, near-death experiences in which they see God (even some athiests) in the spiritual realm, testamonies of people who have had remarkably answered prayer, changed lives, feeling of forgiveness, incomprehensable love which came as a result of a faith in an unseen God, when there are that many voices attesting to this same type of phenomena, then it's no longer subjective, is it? The only way to "find" God is to seek Him with you spirit, if you seek Him with all your heart. You'll have your "proof" there.

Like Crabcake, I saw your post too.... read our prior posts. I don't want to hear the "Because God said so" or "If you really believe, you'll see" answers. That's a cop out. Holds no credibility. Sorry... I'm a touchy/feely kinda guy.

 

[Dondi]

I saw your post, but thanks for thinking of me.

I did the 'church/religion' thing for some time and didn't see/feel/sense any "proof".

But the theory you present is interesting. I'd like to see some evidence that it might be valid before twisting my brain to debate it.

I'm ok with subjective evidence, like all the things I listed. I've been particularly interested in investigating the near-death phenomena. I think this has given some compelling data, at least to me. For an interesting website on this matter, try www.near-death.com

Just if you are serious at looking into it.

 

[dems4me]

Warning or no warning the Bible has been "chopped"

Well, then that's what brings us back to the old discussion of.. how do you know what parts to believe than and what not to believe.. alacart style.
How does a Christian only believe parts of the Bible? Its either the infallible Word of God or it isn't. I believe the Bible to be true and correct 100%. You can't pick and choose - kind of like on the commandments... was that something chopped up and really 110 commandments? Maybe murder is really ok, but it was just written by man to be a wrong thing... I can't see how you can just believe in various parts of the Bible and not the other parts... how can you believe anything in the Bible when you are instructed as a Christian to compare scripture in light of other scripture when you think that its been chopped... how does one do this???

 

[dems4me]

Sure. :shrug: He sits by every day and watches as children are raped and killed; people die of starvation; villages are washed away by his own creation. If you ask me, that's a little worse than plagiarism.

Shiat happens crabcake... there's reasons for it even if we can't in our own little minds figure out the reasons, ... His ways are above our ways... without bad in the world, how wuold anyone know what good is?

 

[crabcake]

Sorry... I'm a touchy/feely kinda guy.

Me too, but in girl-form.

 

[Nanny Pam]

Reposted:

Here's the question I would pose to those who are trying to find "proof" of the existance of God:

What if God existed on another plane or dimension on a level indetectable to the current scientific methods and observations? What if He existed trancendent to Space/Time continuum? Afterall, there are scientists who propose mathematically in quantum physics that there may be as many as ten dimensions, yet we haven't been able to see these dimensions. This would then put God out of reach to the known physical world, yet it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, you just can't prove God by scientific means. Perhaps He planned it this way so that we can find Him in the only way He desires us to know him: through the spirit in man.

What if the only way to know God is through the God-given spirit in man which originated from Him? In connecting God through our spirit with His Spirit, we can know who He is and know His love for us without trying to figure Him out.

I know this seems subjective, but when there are people in all different religions claiming on seeing visions of God, dreams of God, coincidences that defy reason, near-death experiences in which they see God (even some athiests) in the spiritual realm, testamonies of people who have had remarkably answered prayer, changed lives, feeling of forgiveness, incomprehensable love which came as a result of a faith in an unseen God, when there are that many voices attesting to this same type of phenomena, then it's no longer subjective, is it?

The only way to "find" God is to seek Him with you spirit, if you seek Him with all your heart. You'll have your "proof" there.

 

[dems4me]

Reposted:

Here's the question I would pose to those who are trying to find "proof" of the existance of God:

What if God existed on another plane or dimension on a level indetectable to the current scientific methods and observations? What if He existed trancendent to Space/Time continuum? Afterall, there are scientists who propose mathematically in quantum physics that there may be as many as ten dimensions, yet we haven't been able to see these dimensions. This would then put God out of reach to the known physical world, yet it doesn't mean that God doesn't exist, you just can't prove God by scientific means. Perhaps He planned it this way so that we can find Him in the only way He desires us to know him: through the spirit in man.

What if the only way to know God is through the God-given spirit in man which originated from Him? In connecting God through our spirit with His Spirit, we can know who He is and know His love for us without trying to figure Him out.

I know this seems subjective, but when there are people in all different religions claiming on seeing visions of God, dreams of God, coincidences that defy reason, near-death experiences in which they see God (even some athiests) in the spiritual realm, testamonies of people who have had remarkably answered prayer, changed lives, feeling of forgiveness, incomprehensable love which came as a result of a faith in an unseen God, when there are that many voices attesting to this same type of phenomena, then it's no longer subjective, is it?

The only way to "find" God is to seek Him with you spirit, if you seek Him with all your heart. You'll have your "proof" there.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Warning or no warning the Bible has been "chopped"

If you believe that, then what can you believe. All historical evidence of the manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls indicate that the Bible has not been "chopped".

If even one word of the Bible is not trustworthy none of it is trustworthy. People are left to pick and choose what about the Bible is true and what is not. If the account of creation is not true then why is the account of Jesus and the resurrection true? If the account of the resurrection is not true, then followers of Christ, as Paul wrote, are truly most miserable.

 

[mAlice]

All historical evidence of the manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls indicate that the Bible has not been "chopped".

I disagree. I think these things indicate that the bible has indeed, been chopped.

 

[Kain99]

You mean that stuff that I never experienced when I was all caught up in "the truth"? I guess I wasn't good enough, 'cuz just like CC, I never experienced the voices in my head.

Powerful statement.

 

[crabcake]

Shiat happens crabcake... there's reasons for it even if we can't in our own little minds figure out the reasons, ... His ways are above our ways... without bad in the world, how wuold anyone know what good is?

The overwhelming "reason" in my mind is because he doesn't exist. I find it hard to believe that a "loving/forgiving God" would allow such atrocities to occur to innocent people ... to let one who commits such horrendous acts upon others to walk free and enjoy the remainder of their living days.

 

[crabcake]

If you believe that, then what can you believe. All historical evidence of the manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls indicate that the Bible has not been "chopped".

Why, then, so many versions? :shrug: Shouldn't they all be identical? Or is it man's attempt at keeping the Gideon's from cornering the religious market?

 

[Dondi]

Like Crabcake, I saw your post too.... read our prior posts. I don't want to hear the "Because God said so" or "If you really believe, you'll see" answers. That's a cop out. Holds no credibility. Sorry... I'm a touchy/feely kinda guy.

I don't see this as a copout, I think it is legitimately reasonable to consider the stories of other people. They are merely testifying their experiences with this type of phenomena. Don't witness count for something. I know in a court of law it does. If you take my theory about God being trancedent to time/space, then how else are we going to find him.

BTW, I already mentioned in another post that I see God in this diverse creation, but this is only suppliments my belief in God. I just cannot see how mindless chaos could create everything we see. There has to be something guiding it. I'm ok with that and your view. If you don't see God in creation, I'm suggesting another means.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I disagree. I think these things indicate that the bible has indeed, been chopped.

There are far more first century manuscripts of the Book of Mark than there are of the Iliad yet people choose to not find any fault with Homer and disregard Mark. I propose that it has to do with the human nature and arrogance of not wanting to recognize that humans are not in control and that humans are answerable for their actions.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Well... It's easy. On one hand you can believe without proof and be safe. On the other hand you can argue Science and use your intelligence atoms to disbelieve.

Option number one: Everyone is safe and no one gets hurt.

Option number two: Horrendously risky.

Back to my question.... Why would this powerful, loving, caring, wonderful entity hurt me?? Why won't he hear my question and answer it??

 

[2ndAmendment]

The overwhelming "reason" in my mind is because he doesn't exist. I find it hard to believe that a "loving/forgiving God" would allow such atrocities to occur to innocent people ... to let one who commits such horrendous acts upon others to walk free and enjoy the remainder of their living days.

Did you miss the part where the earth is satan's kingdom until Jesus returns? I think you may be blaming the wrong supernatural being.

 

[dems4me]

The overwhelming "reason" in my mind is because he doesn't exist. I find it hard to believe that a "loving/forgiving God" would allow such atrocities to occur to innocent people ... to let one who commits such horrendous acts upon others to walk free and enjoy the remainder of their living days.

Because shiat happens, the World is not a perfect world, nor is it supposed to be... if it was heaven on earth... why strive to spend eternity in heaven.. shiat happens here on earth, to you, to me, to everyone...without bad, we would never know good... without darkness in the world, we'd never know light...

 

[mAlice]

Did you miss the part where the earth is satan's kingdom until Jesus returns? I think you may be blaming the wrong supernatural being.

The devil made her do it.

 

[Kain99]

If you believe that, then what can you believe. All historical evidence of the manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls indicate that the Bible has not been "chopped".

If even one word of the Bible is not trustworthy none of it is trustworthy. People are left to pick and choose what about the Bible is true and what is not. If the account of creation is not true then why is the account of Jesus and the resurrection true? If the account of the resurrection is not true, then followers of Christ, as Paul wrote, are truly most miserable.

Yes it was, at Constantinople.

The ecumenical councils of 381, 553, 681, and 869; the Trullan Council (692), very important for the history of canonical legislation; the councils of 712 and 878 which ratified, respectively, Monothelism and the revolt of Photius against Rome.

Maybe you are saying that yes, the early "unreal" Bible was chopped but not the new one.

 

[Kain99]

Back to my question.... Why would this powerful, loving, caring, wonderful entity hurt me?? Why won't he hear my question and answer it??

Why did your Daddy whip your azz when you were little? Did he love you?