I'm wondering...

[Dondi]

I don't want it. Why is it so hard for any of you to understand that I just want to know WHY all of you do?

Nothing is better in this world than knowing the Love of God. That God loves me. That eternity is in the here and now, despite the suffering and hardship we face in the world. The satisfaction that the next world is infinitely better than this world. That what we experience in God and do in this life has a direct bearing on our spiritual growth in the hereafter. Namely that the only real requirement from God is that we love God and love others as ourself. When we love God, we will know His love for us. It is reciprocated. This world will never get better unless we learn to love one another, and I am joyfully learning this.

 

[dems4me]

Okay, tell me...what did that feel like? Did you experience something? How do you know he came to you? Was there a light? Did a feeling of warmth wash over you? Did you get an electrical charge? What was the clincher?

It's personal, and given that this is a pubic forum, I'll just leave it at that... it was a traumatically abusive night, I was literallly barely alive and the Lord came to me that night and picked me up and kept me alive thruogh the night - without the Lord's help, I wouldn't have made it. I don't talk about it because nonbeilevers think its absurd or something, and to me thats something I know happened and generally I don't put up any past traumas up for discussion. I know what happened and it made a lasting impact on me.

Later that week my older brother (15 mo. older) found a little cartoon book/phamplet in the gutter and showed it to me, it had a similary abusive story in it where the kid died and Jesus took him up in his arms and the boy cried tears of joy instead of being abused here on earth and lived happily ever after with the Lord. I still have that 10 page cartoon book with me to this very day.

To me it was just confirmatino of what I had been feeling from that night where the Lord kept me alive and after that as I got older, I studied my Bible coloring books really hard as there were no bibles around the house and continued to build on my faith from that point on and reading Bible and Bible study books as I got older... I've seen hell at an early age, and clung to the Bible because I learned it offered something Satan doesn't... and that is HOPE. As an adult I still have this unwavering faith, I know what I went through growing up and I know the one and only thing that helped me get out and out alive and that was GOD. My friends in real life say I'm a miracle but I didn't do anything, I just put my trust in the Lord and try to follow his will for me in life.

I can honestly say, I'm entirely endebted to the Lord for every blessing, gift and ever sorrow that I've experienced in life.

I'm not condeming you at all Elaine for your beliefs, I can totally understand why you beileve what you do, I'm just trying to share my story at the risk of being attacked by others on here so that I can better answer your question about God and how I know God is there sort of questions.

 

[mAlice]

I will if I want

I already told you that faith is completely subjective. It's like love - why do you love someone? Maybe because they're kind or funny or whatever - but there are millions of people with those same characteristics, and you don't love them. Why love this particular person? And if YOU love them, does that mean EVERYONE should?

I agree that it's subjective. But why? Why do some people have it and others don't? Again, is it the "I pee's all over myself" feeling, or "I was zapped with a bolt of lightening" feeling? I hear people say they have the holy spirit. What does that feel like? How do they know? What I'm understanding is that there is more than faith, it's something that they know and they seem to think they have a reason, other than the bible.

 

[mAlice]

It's personal, and given that this is a pubic forum, I'll just leave it at that... it was a traumatically abusive night, I was literallly barely alive and the Lord came to me that night and picked me up and kept me alive thruogh the night - without the Lord's help, I wouldn't have made it. I don't talk about it because nonbeilevers think its absurd or something, and to me thats something I know happened and generally I don't put up any past traumas up for discussion. I know what happened and it made a lasting impact on me.

Later that week my older brother (15 mo. older) found a little cartoon book/phamplet in the gutter and showed it to me, it had a similary abusive story in it where the kid died and Jesus took him up in his arms and the boy cried tears of joy instead of being abused here on earth and lived happily ever after with the Lord. I still have that 10 page cartoon book with me to this very day.

To me it was just confirmatino of what I had been feeling from that night where the Lord kept me alive and after that as I got older, I studied my Bible coloring books really hard as there were no bibles around the house and continued to build on my faith from that point on and reading Bible and Bible study books as I got older... I've seen hell at an early age, and clung to the Bible because I learned it offered something Satan doesn't... and that is HOPE. As an adult I still have this unwavering faith, I know what I went through growing up and I know the one and only thing that helped me get out and that was GOD. My friends in real life say I'm a miracle but I didn't do anything, I just put my trust in the Lord and try to follow his will for me in life.

I can honestly say, I'm entirely endebted to the Lord for every blessing, gift and ever sorrow that I've experienced in life.

I wasn't asking you to share your personal bad experience. I was asking you to share what happened after that, when the lord "came to you".

 

[Dondi]

I agree that it's subjective. But why? Why do some people have it and others don't? Again, is it the "I pee's all over myself" feeling, or "I was zapped with a bolt of lightening" feeling? I hear people say they have the holy spirit. What does that feel like? How do they know? What I'm understanding is that there is more than faith, it's something that they know and they seem to think they have a reason, other than the bible.

OK, here is what it's like. Do something for someone in a totally unselfish way, without expectation of anything in return.

 

[mAlice]

Nothing is better in this world than knowing the Love of God. That God loves me. That eternity is in the here and now, despite the suffering and hardship we face in the world. The satisfaction that the next world is infinitely better than this world. That what we experience in God and do in this life has a direct bearing on our spiritual growth in the hereafter. Namely that the only real requirement from God is that we love God and love others as ourself. When we love God, we will know His love for us. It is reciprocated. This world will never get better unless we learn to love one another, and I am joyfully learning this.

...and then you have those who "just know".

Thanks, Dondi.

 

[mAlice]

OK, here is what it's like. Do something for someone in a totally unselfish way, without expectation of anything in return.

Are you having the same conversation as the rest of us?

 

[dems4me]

I wasn't asking you to share your personal bad experience. I was asking you to share what happened after that, when the lord "came to you".

I did answer how he came to me as best as I could on an online forum...

oh hell... I give up.... :throwsarmsupintheair:

He rang the doorbell and I went downstairs answered it, let him in and he grabbed a coke, a burger and some fries, and we just sat around shooting the breeze as showed me a tape on VHS of him documenting himself parting seas, etc... I smoked a ciggerette and said... thanks Lord, this is the sign I was looking for in the Bible

 

[mAlice]

I did answer how he came to me as best as I could on an online forum...

oh hell... I give up.... :throwsarmsupintheair:

He rang the doorbell and I went downstairs answered it, let him in and he grabbed a coke, a burger and some fries, and we just sat around shooting the breeze as showed me a tape on VHS of him documenting himself parting seas, etc... I smoked a ciggerette and said... thanks Lord, this is the sign I was looking for in the Bible

That was funny, but you didn't answer how he came to you.

 

[Nanny Pam]

I think of that as a sort of great intuition. You cannot possibly prove it for sure but somehow you just know! I myself am at the crossroads, I love questioning things and learning both sides of the debate, that way I tend to learn more about the subject at hand. However, sometimes I will see something or feel something and question that! Some things are just too beautiful and some feelings are just too powerful sometimes for me not to believe there is a higher power. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>

Last year we had a Buddhist guest speaker in one of my philosophy classes. After class I asked him "Do you believe in God and if so why? Why do you believe in God if you have never perceived God before?” He answered with "A few years ago I was introduced to infrared. I could see many things with infrared that I could not with my own eyes without infrared. Who's to say we do not have the ability to see God? Some of us may very well have that ability but not in the technological sense."<o></o>

<o></o>
Even in my own adventures in ghost hunting I myself will admit that just because you cannot see something doesn't mean it's not there. For instance, a blind man has a pencil put in front of him. The blind man cannot see the pencil but that does not exclude the fact that a pencil is still in front of him. <o></o>

<o></o>
I doubt any of this will change anyone's personal beliefs but I just wanted to get these thoughts out of my head and written somewhere.<o></o>

Thank You, BL

 

[2ndAmendment]

No, you're wrong. You're right about a lot of things, but you're wrong about this.

I'm not trying to get anyone to convince me of anything. I'm trying to get an explanation for their unwavering faith. That's what I'm trying to understand. I reworded my question numerous times, and still everyone wants to turn it into something that it's not.

How can one explain faith? You have it or you don't.

I can give you a short "history of 2A".

I grew up in a Christian home. The first song I ever remember singing was Jesus Loves Me. I began to question God and quite going to church when I went away to college. As I got more educated in science, I realized that science presented a lot more questions than answers and that science's answers kept changing. I also found that many of the most learned scientists believed in God. To that point, I had only read parts of the Bible that were presented in Sunday school or church service or confirmation class. I started reading the Bible at Geneses 1:1 and read all the way to Revelation 22:21. I found there were a lot more answers in the Bible and that they were consistent.

My life did not conform to God's way, but I kept reading. I kept praying. I started trying to make my life conform to God's way. I lost my first wife because she didn't like it because I no longer wanted to do some of the stuff we used to do that is against God's word. I was heart broken to lose my wife. I started going to a charismatic prayer group seeking to have them pray for the restoration of my marriage. I was prayed over to receive gifts of the Holy Spirit. I asked for the gift of prophesy because I felt "lead" that way and also for the gifts of tongues as a confirmation that I was given the gift of prophesy. The very next word out of my mouth was in a language I did not know. I was told by someone that heard me that it was Hebrew. I've never studied Hebrew. I have also noticed that the language changes from time to time.

I have also been given the gift of translation of tongues at times which kind of goes hand in hand with the gift of prophesy. Every prophesy I have ever been given to give has come true or been confirmed by other events. In the charismatic group, often the prophesies would start with one person and continue with others until it was finished with people stopping in mid sentence and someone else picking up with the very next word with no hesitation or loss of continuity of thought. One prophesy I was given to give took a year to come true, but it did. Another took a day. One recent one was a word of God given to me to give to the congregation of the church I go to. I took it to my minister before the service; he asked me to write it out. I already had and gave it to him. His son gave the message that day. After the message, the minister got up and read the word that had been given to me to the congregation. It was the same message that his son had just preached.

This is a compact distillation of why I believe so fervently. I experience the power of the Holy Spirit first hand and it is totally consistent with the Bible.

Acts 2:16-21

<sup id="en-NASB-26966">16</sup>but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
<sup id="en-NASB-26967">17</sup>'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
<sup id="en-NASB-26968">18</sup>EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
<sup id="en-NASB-26969">19</sup>'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
<sup id="en-NASB-26970">20</sup>'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
<sup id="en-NASB-26971">21</sup>'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'

Some of this scripture has and is being fulfilled and some is yet to be fulfilled.

Anyway, you asked us why we believe. That is my story.

 

[dems4me]

That was funny, but you didn't answer how he came to you.

He came to me in the form of Jesus.

 

[Kain99]

My answer is simple.... I find it impossible not to believe in God when I stand at the edge of the Ocean or see a sunset or climb a mountain. It's a real to me as it is fake to you.

 

[mAlice]

Anyway, you asked us why we believe. That is my story.

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to get at. You have something that is somewhat tangible (although I find to be really out there). That's the kind of answer I've been looking for all day. Why is it so hard to answer that question?

Dems, have you experienced something similiar? Do you now see what I'm getting at?

 

[vraiblonde]

I agree that it's subjective. But why?

There is no "why" with a subjective feeling. What did you feel like when you fell in love with your husband? When your daughter was born?

A long time ago, I felt like God "spoke" to me (this was when I embarked on my spiritual odyssey). Here's the story:

I was always a non-believer, even as a kid. During a particularly troubling period in my adult life, a friend suggested I talk to God and lay my troubles at His feet. So I did, figuring she was doing okay so she must know what she's talking about. I lay in bed and "talked" to God, telling Him all my troubles and woes and asking for guidance. What I "felt" and got back was a sense of "what will be will be". Like everything has a purpose and these troubles I was having were a precursor to growth and later fulfillment. That I must go through these trying times in order to get to my happy destination. But get through them I would, and with flying colors.

I thought about all the troubles in the world and how my pathetic little problems were completely insignificant compared to, say, someone whose little girl was abducted, raped and murdered or some mother in Ethiopia watching her children starve to death.

So how to describe the actual feeling?

It was a sense of resolution, of peace, of sureness, of purpose. That's the best I can do. The only "answer" that came to me was that this, too, shall pass and tomorrow's another day. So it's not like "God" said, here's what you need to do. It was more like, why are you worrying about something so stupid? You should be thankful for all the blessings you have and not spend a lot of time worrying about what you don't have.

Does that help?

 

[dems4me]

Elaine, I have to agree with Vria on a point... you do have a somewhat fixation on religion... whether it be spiratual or against - it still revovles around religion.

I think you are a very humble person and maybe you want to know why God would want you to be a servant of His or how anyone of us knows, we all know in our own individual ways, but I think you know deep down in your heart what is the right choice for you on this. And yes, the Lord would want little ol' Elaine sitting there at her desk, from Southern Maryland to be a servant too. Sometimes all it takes is a leap of faith, I understand you've done this in the past but something is driving you towards religion whether it be for or against. Pick up a Bible tonight, pray for an answer wholeheartedly and open it up, maybe you will hear and read the answer you are seeking. It won't be a bolt of lightening, or anything like that, just something subtle that will let you know. The Lord knows you better than you know yourself.

 

[mAlice]

Does that help?

Not really.

 

[mAlice]

Elaine, I have to agree with Vria on a point... you do have a somewhat fixation on religion... whether it be spiratual or against - it still revovles around religion.

Try not to read too much into my questions, dems. It's simply a fascination, not unlike my fascination with RF or road kill.

 

[Dondi]

OK, here is what it's like. Do something for someone in a totally unselfish way, without expectation of anything in return.

Are you having the same conversation as the rest of us?

This is what uncondition love is. This is how you develop an unconditional love for people. And by unconditionally loving people, you are in essence loving God. This is how God wants us to love. All I'm suggesting is that you do this and see.

 

[vraiblonde]

Not really.

Well, you asked what it felt like, and I told you what it felt like for me. What more do you want? :shrug: