It's time for an Amish Barn Raising

[mitzi]

Well? It's true that I love hurling insults, almost went semi-pro as an Army Drill Sergeant 20+ years ago and later on in a Maximum Security Disciplinary Segregation unit in NJ (I'll leave which side of the bars I was on to your imagination). However, I love a healthy debate even more. I actually like it when someone challenges my ideas. Diversity of thought creates better outcomes.

So, please let's return to the debate at hand and freely challenge my ideas with reason rather than paasion. Again, I don't mind helping the Amish, but I want to know what the strategic plan is going to be. If the plan is a seasonal shanty town on public property in perpetuity than I have a problem, specifically with using my tax dollars to pay for such a lack of vision. It's a seperation of church and state issue to permanently surrender public property to a religious group. If it's not a problem, then folks won't mind if my Mosque opens up a bunch of falafel stands? We've been looking for a place and can pay more rent than the Amish. ~As-Salaam-Alaikum

And how do you know the space is paid for by your tax dollars? The Amish may pay the county to be on the space. They would have to pay whoever owns the market for a space, the spaces are not free. I wish I could remember the details of them moving there, but it's been 20 years or more I believe.
This is like people that move to Leonardtown and complain about the Fire Department siren or move to a rural area and complain there are no sidewalks or street lights.

 

[fatratcat]

How exactly does it hurt you for the Amish the sell produce by the library?

It's public land paid for by my tax dollars. BTW- I have no problem helping them in the short term, but what's the strategic plan? Are we permanently ceding public property to religious sects? If so, are we still OK with that when religions show up that we may not agree so readily with such as radical Islam? I think it's in everyones best interest find a more permanent solution. Otherwise...we'll see you soon! Our falafels and we have deep pockets!

~As-Salaam-Alaikum

 

[aps45819]

If the plan is a seasonal shanty town on public property in perpetuity than I have a problem, specifically with using my tax dollars to pay for such a lack of vision. It's a seperation of church and state issue to permanently surrender public property to a religious group. If it's not a problem, then folks won't mind if my Mosque opens up a bunch of falafel stands? We've been looking for a place and can pay more rent than the Amish. ~As-Salaam-Alaikum

Why exactly do you think it costs you anything for them to sell produce on an used piece of property by the side of the road.



.... and FYI separation of church and state is not in the constitution

 

[fatratcat]

Why exactly do you think it costs you anything for them to sell produce on an used piece of property by the side of the road.



.... and FYI separation of church and state is not in the constitution

Errr Ummm? I'm dying to get your take on the text below:

The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

 

[aps45819]

It's public land paid for by my tax dollars. BTW- I have no problem helping them in the short term, but what's the strategic plan? Are we permanenlt ceding property to religious sects? If so, are we still OK with that when religions show up that we may not agree so readily with such as radical Islam? I think it's in everyones best interest find a more permanent solution. Otherwise...we'll see you soon! Our falafels rock and we have deep pockets!

~As-Salaam-Alaikum

yes, bought and paid for years ago, and I'm pretty sure anybody can set up a stand at one of the open markets in the county

Did you know you're paying now for the school buses that go to the catholic schools?
Every year.
Year after year after year

 

[aps45819]

Errr Ummm? I'm dying to get your take on the text below:

The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

how exactly does congress enacting a law establishing a religion have anything to do with the county government allowing local farmers to sell a cantaloupe?

 

[fatratcat]

Why exactly do you think it costs you anything for them to sell produce on an used piece of property by the side of the road.



.... and FYI separation of church and state is not in the constitution

A very definitive test exists to determine who is right. It's called the Lemon Test.

"First, the law or policy must have been adopted with a neutral or non-religious purpose. Second, the principle or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion. Third, the statute or policy must not result in an "excessive entanglement" of government with religion."

Permanently ceding public land is an "excessive entanglement," unless you tell me the plan for disengagement.

Try this on for size:

989 case of Allegheny County v. ACLU, 492 U.S. 573, the practice is examined to see if it unconstitutionally endorses religion by conveying "a message that religion is 'favored,' 'preferred,' or 'promoted' over other beliefs."

Nothing says that like gaggle of Amish on the lawn of the public library.

 

[fatratcat]

yes, bought and paid for years ago, and I'm pretty sure anybody can set up a stand at one of the open markets in the county

Did you know you're paying now for the school buses that go to the catholic schools?
Every year.
Year after year after year

Oooh! Bait hitting the water...nice!

 

[mitzi]

A very definitive test exists to determine who is right. It's called the Lemon Test.

"First, the law or policy must have been adopted with a neutral or non-religious purpose. Second, the principle or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion. Third, the statute or policy must not result in an "excessive entanglement" of government with religion."

Permanently ceding public land is an "excessive entanglement," unless you tell me the plan for disengagement.

Try this on for size:

989 case of Allegheny County v. ACLU, 492 U.S. 573, the practice is examined to see if it unconstitutionally endorses religion by conveying "a message that religion is 'favored,' 'preferred,' or 'promoted' over other beliefs."

Nothing says that like gaggle of Amish on the lawn of the public library.

Once again I ask, possibly they pay a fee to the county to set up there?

 

[mamatutu]

A very definitive test exists to determine who is right. It's called the Lemon Test.

"First, the law or policy must have been adopted with a neutral or non-religious purpose. Second, the principle or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion. Third, the statute or policy must not result in an "excessive entanglement" of government with religion."

Permanently ceding public land is an "excessive entanglement," unless you tell me the plan for disengagement.

Try this on for size:

989 case of Allegheny County v. ACLU, 492 U.S. 573, the practice is examined to see if it unconstitutionally endorses religion by conveying "a message that religion is 'favored,' 'preferred,' or 'promoted' over other beliefs."

Nothing says that like gaggle of Amish on the lawn of the public library.

Wow! I wasn't going to get in on the argument that has progressed from your OP, but I gagged when I read your (bolded) comment, above. Maybe, you should move. JMO

 

[Hank]

Do they need a vendors license? Do they pay state tax? Do they pay federal tax?

 

[mamatutu]

Do they need a vendors license? Do they pay state tax? Do they pay federal tax?

I, actually, was asking my husband that tonight? Do they pay taxes? Are they going to be under Obamacare? Do they have to live under the rules that the rest of us do? I would say, yes, because they are citizens of the U.S. I did not research it yet, however. But, I think the point that most are making on this thread, is that the Amish make us feel good about America in trying times. It makes us happy to see them, and to know they live off the land, and make everything that they utilize. It brings us back to a simpler time, that, I believe, most of us would like to have back. Also, I don't think they would flourish as they do, if there wasn't a demand by the rest of us for their wares. JMO.

Edit: Do Amish pay taxes?

Do the Amish Pay Federal Taxes? | eHow

 

[nutz]

Wait? I'm confused? Whose side are you on? The "not in my backyard" people are the ones that are happy with a litany of liquors tores, fastfood, nail salons, funeral homes, casinos, flea markets, and banks. If I'm understanding what you wrote, you're on my side? How could that be? Freudian slip...I think. Reagardless, welcome to the team. LOL!

Hey, DA. The proverbial NIMBY has a set of standards whereby they don't want certain things near them ie; horse poop, libraries, Amish but do want what THEY want (in your case CSM, public sewer, more stores).

 

[Gilligan]

It's public land paid for by my tax dollars. BTW- I have no problem helping them in the short term, but what's the strategic plan?

The plan is already executed, years ago, and is what is there. The commissioners found a location on which to allow/encourage numerous roadside produce peddlers to consolidate in one safer spot that was reasonably close to all the places they had been pulled off to the side of the road before then.

And that is that. Anyone can set up there; it has squat to do with a "religious sect".

 

[Hank]

And that is that. Anyone can set up there; it has squat to do with a "religious sect".

Are you sure the Amish Mafia won't hassle me if i setup a stand?

 

[mitzi]

Are you sure the Amish Mafia won't hassle me if i setup a stand?

No, but the poster might.

 

[fatratcat]

I, actually, was asking my husband that tonight? Do they pay taxes? Are they going to be under Obamacare? Do they have to live under the rules that the rest of us do? I would say, yes, because they are citizens of the U.S. I did not research it yet, however. But, I think the point that most are making on this thread, is that the Amish make us feel good about America in trying times. It makes us happy to see them, and to know they live off the land, and make everything that they utilize. It brings us back to a simpler time, that, I believe, most of us would like to have back. Also, I don't think they would flourish as they do, if there wasn't a demand by the rest of us for their wares. JMO.

Edit: Do Amish pay taxes?

Do the Amish Pay Federal Taxes? | eHow

Please allow me to quote fomr the source you cited "The Amish believe in self-sufficiency and communal help within the order. Although they do pay most taxes, they are exempt from paying some federal and state taxes because of their religious beliefs."

Succinctly, the do not pay taxes because of their religious belief AND occupy a PUBLIC space to do their business. Man---how do I get in on that arrangement...NO STATE or FEDERAL TAXES...and I get to set up on public land...simply beautiful! I will compliment the Amish on this point, they are playing the sympathies of the community like champs!

"The US Congress exempted the Amish from participating in Social Security in 1965 because the Amish viewed it as a form of commercial insurance, which they opposed. They believe that members of the church should care for each others’ physical and material needs. Thus, most of them do not pay into Social Security or receive payments from it. In some states, the Amish have also been exempted from workers compensation (insurance for on-the-job injuries) for the same reason." Elizabeth College

Clearly, I concede they pay some taxes BUT definitely not as much as the average Joe.

 

[fatratcat]

Do they need a vendors license? Do they pay state tax? Do they pay federal tax?

Don't know about the vendor's license, but according to the other posts they do not pay federal and state income taxes the way you and I do.

 

[Gilligan]

Man---how do I get in on that arrangement...NO STATE or FEDERAL TAXES...and I get to set up on public land...simply beautiful! I will compliment the Amish on this point, they are playing the sympathies of the community like champs!

\

So your subterfuge is revealed. You don't have a problem with the open air market. You have a personal problem with the majority of those who happen to be using it.

Gotcha.

 

[fatratcat]

\

So your subterfuge is revealed. You don't have a problem with the open air market. You have a personal problem with the majority of those who happen to be using it.

Gotcha.

NO. My position is that I don't mind a temporary fix to help the Amish, but object to the lack of a permanent solution. ONE: the longer the half ass approach lingers the more the solution fails the Lemon Test because it's a excessive entanglement.

"First, the law or policy must have been adopted with a neutral or non-religious purpose. Second, the principle or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion. Third, the statute or policy must not result in an "excessive entanglement" of government with religion."

AND

It conveys the message that Amish religious beliefs are favored in the community.

989 case of Allegheny County v. ACLU, 492 U.S. 573, the practice is examined to see if it unconstitutionally endorses religion by conveying "a message that religion is 'favored,' 'preferred,' or 'promoted' over other beliefs."

FINALLY

It's an eyesore to have a shanty town on the lawn of a public building.