Jesus is either the biggest fraud in history or He is exactly who He claims to be.

[Kizzy]

CG Very good post BTW.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So, are you saying rather than to give a testimony, you feel God has called you to point out others faults through versus?

Not being sarcastic, just asking for clarification.

Each is called to proclaim the Word, some in one way and some in another. I quote the Bible. The Bible says it is offensive and not understandable to those not of the Spirit. Maybe it is my ministry to be the one crying in the wilderness, so that those that do not accept cannot say they have not heard.

It would be so much easier on me to do like dems says and just say the good stuff. I wish I could, but, for some reason, I can't. I proclaim scripture. That is what I am led to do.

 

[crabcake]

Hey, if you knew as I know, then you would not be arguing against but for the Bible; you would not question that I know what I know, because you would know also.

I'm not arguing against the bible or saying your indivdiual belief system is jacked up. You believe in the bible, accept Jesus as your savior, and that's fine. I believe in the dictionary, and understand the difference between "belief" and "fact". Your choice of words is wrong because you aren't God, nor were you present when any bible was written. That is a fact.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I'm not arguing against the bible or saying your indivdiual belief system is jacked up. You believe in the bible, accept Jesus as your savior, and that's fine. I believe in the dictionary, and understand the difference between "belief" and "fact". Your choice of words is wrong because you aren't God, nor were you present when any bible was written. That is a fact.

Believe as you will.

 

[pixiegirl]

I'm loving Thomas

45) Jesus said: Grapes are not harvested from thorn-bushes, nor are figs gathered from hawthorns, [f]or they yield no fruit. [A go]od man brings forth good from his treasure; a bad man brings forth evil things from his evil treasure, which is in his heart, and he says evil things, for out of the abundance of his heart he brings froth evil things.

 

[mAlice]

I proclaim scripture. That is what I am led to do.

I'm not really seeing you proclaiming scripture. I see you regurgitating what some cyber nutjob is publishing on his web site.

 

[Toxick]

I've not said that what he believes is wrong. It's the words and way in which he tries to do "Gods work" that I (and others who've spoken up) dislike.

You, and others, seem to be taking it as a personal affront that 2A is not allowing for the possibility and insertting disclaimers that other religions might be correct.

It seems to offend people that he not only believes what he believes, but actually has the nerve to defend and promote it.


And it's not just 2A, and it's not just the people on this board. This seems to be the modus operandi just about anywhere I go. People are shocked and offended when a Christian has the gall to exalt and promote God and Jesus within earshot. "Don't push your belief system on me!".

Ironically these are often the same people who say that Gay Pride parades are not intrusive and "don't bother anybody" when they clog up traffic and act as In-Yer-Face as humanly possible.



While 2A's style is a bit blunt and non-diplomoatic for my tastes, I see nothing wrong with holding true to his beliefs (or knowledge) and not sugar-coating it for the great unwashed.



And this arguing semantics between "Believe" and "Know" is an exercise in stubborn futility.

 

[2ndAmendment]

45) Jesus said: Grapes are not harvested from thorn-bushes, nor are figs gathered from hawthorns, [f]or they yield no fruit. [A go]od man brings forth good from his treasure; a bad man brings forth evil things from his evil treasure, which is in his heart, and he says evil things, for out of the abundance of his heart he brings froth evil things.

And that is different from

Mathew 7
<sup id="en-NASB-23333">16</sup>"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

<sup id="en-NASB-23334">17</sup>"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

<sup id="en-NASB-23335">18</sup>"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

<sup id="en-NASB-23336">19</sup>"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

<sup id="en-NASB-23337">20</sup>"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

how?

 

[pixiegirl]

And that is different from how?

This part.

A go]od man brings forth good from his treasure; a bad man brings forth evil things from his evil treasure, which is in his heart, and he says evil things, for out of the abundance of his heart he brings froth evil things.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I'm not really seeing you proclaiming scripture. I see you regurgitating what some cyber nutjob is publishing on his web site.

I often just quote scripture and get the same reaction. :shrug: When the "cyber nutjob" (slander?) writes something that is particularly to the point, why should I paraphrase and claim his work? I have permission to repost.

 

[crabcake]

You, and others, seem to be taking it as a personal affront that 2A is not allowing for the possibility and insertting disclaimers that other religions might be correct.

It seems to offend people that he not only believes what he believes, but actually has the nerve to defend and promote it.


And it's not just 2A, and it's not just the people on this board. This seems to be the modus operandi just about anywhere I go. People are shocked and offended when a Christian has the gall to exalt and promote God and Jesus within earshot. "Don't push your belief system on me!".

Ironically these are often the same people who say that Gay Pride parades are not intrusive and "don't bother anybody" when they clog up traffic and act as In-Yer-Face as humanly possible.



While 2A's style is a bit blunt and non-diplomoatic for my tastes, I see nothing wrong with holding true to his beliefs (or knowledge) and not sugar-coating it for the great unwashed.



And this arguing semantics between "Believe" and "Know" is an exercise in stubborn futility.

It is not my job in life to tell anyone what they should/should not think, feel, believe, they're going to hell, etc. And I have not told 2A his beliefs are jacked up, nor anyone else. I've simply stated (as others have) that if he is sincere in his desire to "do God's work" and "spread the word", then he ought to reconsider his choice of words and tone in doing so -- period. And not to misrepresent his "beliefs" as "facts". There is a difference, and sadly enough, there are people out there who are stupid enough to not understand the difference.

 

[2ndAmendment]

This part.

A go]od man brings forth good from his treasure; a bad man brings forth evil things from his evil treasure, which is in his heart, and he says evil things, for out of the abundance of his heart he brings froth evil things.

good man -> good tree
evil man -> tree that does not bear good fruit

See it now?

 

[crabcake]

good man -> good tree
evil man -> tree that does not bear good fruit

See it now?

If the message is the same, what difference does it make that she found it from a difference reference?

 

[mAlice]

(slander?)

That is what I believe, therefor it is fact.

 

[pixiegirl]

good man -> good tree
evil man -> tree that does not bear good fruit

See it now?

I see that and also see it as what he offers to the world around him.

I totally respect you beliefs. What I don't think you get though is at least in my opinion and from the unpopular reaction you get here is you're method is flawed and you're really doing more harm then good. I'm not saying the message you're trying to convey is wrong (who am I to say what is wrong and right when I'm still seeking knowledge myself) but I'd venture to say that "how" you convey it probably turns more people away from God then to him.

 

[mAlice]

good man -> good tree
evil man -> tree that does not bear good fruit

See it now?

You're missing the point of the scripture. You are not bringing forth good fruit. You've been missing it all along. That's what has everyone up in arms. You choose to believe it's everyone's hatred for the 'word', but it isn't. It's everyone's hatred for the way you are presenting the word. You have inadvertantly put yourself on a pedestal and your blind faith will not allow you to see it.

 

[2ndAmendment]

You're missing the point of the scripture. You are not bringing forth good fruit. You've been missing it all along. That's what has everyone up in arms. You choose to believe it's everyone's hatred for the 'word', but it isn't. It's everyone's hatred for the way you are presenting the word. You have inadvertantly put yourself on a pedestal and your blind faith will not allow you to see it.

If you say so, but those of the Bible who proclaimed the Truth were always hated by those that were proclaimed to unless they were of the Spirit.

If I were to say it is OK to sin. Just do what ever you want and you'll still go to heaven would be very evil because it is not true.

I'll pray about it.

 

[crabcake]

I see that and also see it as what he offers to the world around him.

I totally respect you beliefs. What I don't think you get though is at least in my opinion and from the unpopular reaction you get here is you're method is flawed and you're really doing more harm then good. I'm not saying the message you're trying to convey is wrong (who am I to say what is wrong and right when I'm still seeking knowledge myself) but I'd venture to say that "how" you convey it probably turns more people away from God then to him.

Somehow, though, I doubt it'll sink in ... even though you're at least the 4th person to say this exact same thing.

 

[carolinagirl]

Each is called to proclaim the Word, some in one way and some in another. I quote the Bible. The Bible says it is offensive and not understandable to those not of the Spirit. Maybe it is my ministry to be the one crying in the wilderness, so that those that do not accept cannot say they have not heard.

It would be so much easier on me to do like dems says and just say the good stuff. I wish I could, but, for some reason, I can't. I proclaim scripture. That is what I am led to do.

Wow, again that to me sounds so judgmental that instead of being able to say, Lord, I brought as many wayward sheep back into your flock as I could through my testimony of what you have done in my life," you would rather say, "Lord, I preached your word according to the Bible, and I don't know that I change anyone's life or led them back to you, but at least they can't come before you and say they didn't know what their sins where."

The thing is - I can't help but think that you have gotten to this point of your faith in God and the Bible not only through reading and studying, but first because of life experiences and the goodness that God has bestowed upon you. But instead of relating any of that to us, you only quote scriptures that mostly send a negative overature about living a sinful life. The Bible full of scriptures that don't talk about one's sins. My favorite is:

1 Corinthians 13
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

I think this verse gives people hope and understanding of what God's love is all about and what God wants for their lives. Not for a person to be in an abusive situation. And it is not about just stating the good, this verse is also the truth, and I would venture to say that if I past this message on to a group of individuals that were struggling with their belief in God versus a message from you saying fornication is a sin and you should repent and change immediately or you will be destined for hell, that I would probably convert more of those individuals. Once they see and witness the goodness of God, then they will be more open to read and hear about sins they may be committing. For me personally, that is how I felt. Once I saw His goodness, I was willing to whole heartedly embrace His total message. That doesn't mean I am without fault and sin, it is just that I strive to reach His goal and purpose for my life.

 

[pixiegirl]

If you say so, but those of the Bible who proclaimed the Truth were always hated by those that were proclaimed to unless they were of the Spirit.

Take it like this....

How many homosexuals are there on these boards? Not many. Yet you consistantly start threads pertaining to this subject. You're not converting any homosexuals into Christians but you are very possibly making Christians or those on the fence turn away because they don't want to prescribe to your harsh views.

Several days ago someone made a post posing the question why don't you start threads that are more relevant to your audience? Why not start threads on infidelity or coveting?