Local police at their best...

[Chris0nllyn]

Election is coming up.

Evans was a trooper, so traffic enforcement is big with him (which is why you typically see tons of police on rt.4). Evans also stood with us in Annapolis against SB281.

Kontra has said he wants to get back to neighborhood policing. Don't know his stand on 2A issues.

 

[glhs837]

I've listened to many of your arguments about police enforcing traffic. Correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be opposed to them enforcing speed laws? I get that you don't believe speed is the cause of accidents but so what? I want the cops out there pulling people who are running me off the road over and giving them a ticket. I've never been pulled over for going six or seven miles over the speed limit and I don't really believe the cops do that.

Tell me what you would have them do about traffic issues if you were chief of police.

Christ, seems simple, unless you were not talking to me. Look for the causes (not factors, but root causes) of accidents, then search for people committing those offenses and give them citations. If someone is running you off the road, I'm all for them getting a ticket. Unless by "running me off the road", you mean just going faster than you are. Depending on your speed, that might not be a dangerous activity. Hell, if you are doing 45 in a 55, the officer should ask you to please take a side road where 45 is the speed limit.

I'm fine with officers enforcing speed laws, my issue is with A), the method the state uses to set speed limits, which seems to be a simple "this type of rad gets this limit, because math is hard", and B) The amount of time doing speed enforcement compared to enforcement efforts spent on other, more dangerous driving behaviors. Say cell phones, or unsafe lane changes, or failures to yield. We all see these things every day, but rarely see enforcement targeting them.

 

[SoMDGirl42]

What is it with all the sympathy for "the guy trying to get to work"? Why does that justify him driving at excessive speed and make the police the bad guy? Why can't that guy get up earlier or work through lunch or stay later rather than him habitually "speed racer" every morning?

sounds like the lazy "guy going to work" needs to get up earlier so he doesn't have to use Rt 4 as his personal race track to get to work on time

 

[Gilligan]

sounds like the lazy "guy going to work" needs to get up earlier so he doesn't have to use Rt 4 as his personal race track to get to work on time

I travel Rt. 4 quite often to get to BWI airport and catch an early flight. At 4-5 am, Rt. 4 isn't all that crowded, but if anything its even more of a racetrack at that hour because the congestion is less. 65 is certainly "average"...

 

[SoMDGirl42]

I travel Rt. 4 quite often to get to BWI airport and catch an early flight. At 4-5 am, Rt. 4 isn't all that crowded, but if anything its even more of a racetrack at that hour because the congestion is less. 65 is certainly "average"...

I don't travel rt 4 often, but agree that 65 is average. It's not legal, but average. I was on it last Friday evening and the average was probably 80. If you count the crotch rockets that passed me doing an average 65 like I was sitting in a parking lot, the average was probably more. That is one fricken dangerous road to travel. Damned if you do the speed limit, damned if you do the "average" and should be damned lucky you made it to your destination if you were doing a 100 on a crotch rocket.

 

[Gilligan]

I don't travel rt 4 often, but agree that 65 is average. It's not legal, but average. I was on it last Friday evening and the average was probably 80. If you count the crotch rockets that passed me doing an average 65 like I was sitting in a parking lot, the average was probably more. That is one fricken dangerous road to travel. Damned if you do the speed limit, damned if you do the "average" and should be damned lucky you made it to your destination if you were doing a 100 on a crotch rocket.

I should have been clearer...65 is average at 4 am if you stay primarily in the right lane, which I do. Get passed all the time while averaging 65....

 

[Hank]

I don't travel rt 4 often, but agree that 65 is average. It's not legal, but average. I was on it last Friday evening and the average was probably 80. If you count the crotch rockets that passed me doing an average 65 like I was sitting in a parking lot, the average was probably more. That is one fricken dangerous road to travel. Damned if you do the speed limit, damned if you do the "average" and should be damned lucky you made it to your destination if you were doing a 100 on a crotch rocket.

I should have been clearer...65 is average at 4 am if you stay primarily in the right lane, which I do. Get passed all the time while averaging 65....

Easily 75 on the left and 65 on the right.

 

[smts]

So someone mentioned earlier about the Cop who was speeding on Rt 4 and slammed into the girl in Dunkirk, killiing her. He was going to work wasn't he? He was enroute to a call - how many feel he was justified or allowed to speed because everyone else on Rt 4 does? Speeding does kill, proven fact.

 

[FireBrand]

9 out of 10 times you will meet back up with the people who flew past you
at the next traffic light or two! The great equalizer

 

[glhs837]

Yep, he was on a call. Speed does kill, as does so many other driving behaviors. He was legally allowed to speed, it wasnt justified by anyone elses speed. But he should not have been going the at the rate he was going under the conditions that prevailed. First point of driving an emergency vehicle. "You don't do a damn bit of good if you don't arrive" 100 in a 45, just not safe no matter what. Exactly what was your point? On a lot of route 4, 75, under most conditions, is perfectly safe. There's no magic number, that once you exceed it, means death is imminent. It's a combination of many things. Speed alone rarely kills. It's when you combine it with other stuff.

 

[mamatutu]

9 out of 10 times you will meet back up with the people who flew past you
at the next traffic light or two! The great equalizer

I love when that happens, and it happens a lot! It makes me chuckle.

 

[smts]

To answer your question

Yep, he was on a call. Speed does kill, as does so many other driving behaviors. He was legally allowed to speed, it wasnt justified by anyone elses speed. But he should not have been going the at the rate he was going under the conditions that prevailed. First point of driving an emergency vehicle. "You don't do a damn bit of good if you don't arrive" 100 in a 45, just not safe no matter what. Exactly what was your point? On a lot of route 4, 75, under most conditions, is perfectly safe. There's no magic number, that once you exceed it, means death is imminent. It's a combination of many things. Speed alone rarely kills. It's when you combine it with other stuff.

My point was directly more towards the people who keep quoting that it is the innocent people heading to work getting pulled over for speeding. I am a Law Enforcement family so of course I have nothing against the police. I pray for their safety every day. I also know the officer involved in the crash I mentioned. It seems that the opinion on here is that everyone driving down Rt 4 in the morning are law abiding citizens heading to work. That is far from true as my family members have pulled over and arrested some of these citizens heading to work. Some have drug problems, some have drinking problems, some have warrants. My daughter lost a very good friend to an accident where 4 friends were carpooling and they were goofing around in the car, lost control, flipped the car and hit a tree - 2 dead 2 critical. So to answer your comment, yes speed and other factors kill. I am a frequent Rt 4 driver and have been victim of people flying past me, cutting me off as well as others and driving aggressively. Sometimes the presence of Mike Evan's speed traps brings back the reality that you have to behave sometimes.

 

[glhs837]

Okay, we have now covered the "It's better to do speed enforcement, not to make people safer from bad drivers, but to catch other criminals" though process. The thought that if I do speed enforcement, I get to put my head in far more windows per hour, enabling me to catch "real" bad guys". This is the one that is hard to argue against, we all agree that fewer bad guys on the road, in public in general, thats a good thing.

But, lets be honest about that. It's using speed enforcement as a defacto random spot check for real bad guys. Has nothing to do with punishing, and therefore deterring, unsafe driving behaviors. My contention is that if you want enforcement meant to deter unsafe behaviors, do that enforcement, not just park with the radar or laser out the window. Passing you isn't an aggressive driving behavior, unless it's at a very large speed differential. cutting you off, that is. That's the sort of behavior I'm talking about. Sorry to hear about you daughters friends, but I fail to see how that is relevent to this discussion. Goofing around behind the wheel was the issue there. That speaks to a lack of driver training, another pet peeve of mine.

 

[GURPS]

But, lets be honest about that. It's using speed enforcement as a defacto random Tax on Citizens

:fixed:

 

[Idunno]

We were coming south on 235 at 1030pm returning from dinner in Alexandria and stopped at Charlotte Hall Wawa and got a coffee. Got back out on the road...no other cars in sight. Set the cruise at 60. Saw 2 cars in the distance obviously running together side by side, matched speed. We seemed to come up to them rather rapidly. We slowed to to match the pace....52-54 mph. They continued to run side by side. We kept a 4-5 car distance behind them, with us in the right lane going the 52-54 mph. After about 3 miles the car that was in the right lane dropped back and pulled in behind the one in the left lane. We increased our speed to 58 with the cruise control and slowly pulled along side the first car. We continued our 58 mph and pulled along side the second car. That car then kept pace with us for another 2 miles at 58 mph, the first car kept back 10-15 car lengths in the left lane. No cars on the road in front of us, a couple wayyy in the distance behind. We topped a slight hill with the second car in pace with us, going down the hill we reached a speed of 62mph. The first car then raced up behind us and turned his full flashers and siren on. The second car pulled in behind the first with full flashers on. Both officers approached the car, one on the drivers side came to the window, the other stayed at the back of the car on the passenger side. The officer asked for the usual paperwork. It was handed over without question or complaint. He took the info back to his car, with the second officer leaning on the hood of the cruiser. After 10 minutes the second officer got in his car and went south on 235. The remaining officer came back to our car after 23 minutes (yes I was watching the clock) and gave us a speech on how not to exceed the speed limit when 2 officers are "regulating traffic flow". He gave us a warning.

That State Trooper stayed in front of us all the way home, to our door, "regulating traffic flow". That was almost 10 miles.

We are a middle aged couple, decently dressed, not a flashy or beat up car, not doing anything crazy, spotless record, driving responsibly with no other cars on the road. Really???? To our door?? 62?? Down hill?? Makes me feel warm and fuzzy knowing that the officers are willing to lead you home to make sure you get there safe.

 

[GURPS]

The remaining officer came back to our car after 23 minutes (yes I was watching the clock) .....

negated any advantage you might have gained from getting up to 62

 

[RPMDAD]

We were coming south on 235 at 1030pm returning from dinner in Alexandria and stopped at Charlotte Hall Wawa and got a coffee. Got back out on the road...no other cars in sight. Set the cruise at 60. Saw 2 cars in the distance obviously running together side by side, matched speed. We seemed to come up to them rather rapidly. We slowed to to match the pace....52-54 mph. They continued to run side by side. We kept a 4-5 car distance behind them, with us in the right lane going the 52-54 mph. After about 3 miles the car that was in the right lane dropped back and pulled in behind the one in the left lane. We increased our speed to 58 with the cruise control and slowly pulled along side the first car. We continued our 58 mph and pulled along side the second car. That car then kept pace with us for another 2 miles at 58 mph, the first car kept back 10-15 car lengths in the left lane. No cars on the road in front of us, a couple wayyy in the distance behind. We topped a slight hill with the second car in pace with us, going down the hill we reached a speed of 62mph. The first car then raced up behind us and turned his full flashers and siren on. The second car pulled in behind the first with full flashers on. Both officers approached the car, one on the drivers side came to the window, the other stayed at the back of the car on the passenger side. The officer asked for the usual paperwork. It was handed over without question or complaint. He took the info back to his car, with the second officer leaning on the hood of the cruiser. After 10 minutes the second officer got in his car and went south on 235. The remaining officer came back to our car after 23 minutes (yes I was watching the clock) and gave us a speech on how not to exceed the speed limit when 2 officers are "regulating traffic flow". He gave us a warning.

That State Trooper stayed in front of us all the way home, to our door, "regulating traffic flow". That was almost 10 miles.

We are a middle aged couple, decently dressed, not a flashy or beat up car, not doing anything crazy, spotless record, driving responsibly with no other cars on the road. Really???? To our door?? 62?? Down hill?? Makes me feel warm and fuzzy knowing that the officers are willing to lead you home to make sure you get there safe.

Idunno, just curious what vehicles were the MSP driving?? used to b alittle easier in the old days when they all drove FCVPI's. Now a days you never know what they are driving.

 

[glhs837]

:fixed:

Nah, they dont make money with officers. If they did, automated enforcement would never be a thing. Barring a few very rare cases like that town in Ohio, you lose money on traffic enforcement. When you figure the all up round costs of the trooper and his equipment, they are never making money


Idunno, Sheriff Mike over in Calvert said he was going to have his officers do this thing on 4, but first I have heard of it happening in St Marys, with State of local officers. RPMDAD, still pretty easy, there are a few CVPIs around, but all the others are either Tauruses or Chevy Caprices. Here in St Marys anyway. Over in Calvert, both State and locals have some Chargers. Not counting the oddball SUV, but those are pretty rare.

 

[RPMDAD]

Nah, they dont make money with officers. If they did, automated enforcement would never be a thing. Barring a few very rare cases like that town in Ohio, you lose money on traffic enforcement. When you figure the all up round costs of the trooper and his equipment, they are never making money


Idunno, Sheriff Mike over in Calvert said he was going to have his officers do this thing on 4, but first I have heard of it happening in St Marys, with State of local officers. RPMDAD, still pretty easy, there are a few CVPIs around, but all the others are either Tauruses or Chevy Caprices. Here in St Marys anyway. Over in Calvert, both State and locals have some Chargers. Not counting the oddball SUV, but those are pretty rare.

Over in Calvert for CCSO i have seen Tahoes, Ford Explorers, some Crown Vics, have seen a Charger and maybe some Chevy sedans some marked and a lot unmarked . I know Ford quit making the Crown Vic's big mistake on Fords part IMHO. They were the standard in almost all Police Depts. sadly my opinion on almost all Dodges is great looking car great concept but unreliable, even though they are fast.

 

[Idunno]

The one in the lead was a standard marked Trooper cruiser, the other didn't appear to be, not even sure it was a Trooper, but was a sedan type of car with lights.

Yes we know 55 is 55.... that is why there was no complaint or fuss made when we were pulled over for hitting 62 going down the other side of the hill. They were moving under the speed limit until they paced us. "Regulating traffic flow"?? What traffic? 1 civilian vehicle on the road is considered traffic? Can you imagine what would be done to a driver that is holding at a flat 55mph on 235...4...or 5 in actual traffic? You would get shoved off the road or shot! But to then lead you home...off the highway, down residential streets, into a development and to your door? Once we parked at our home, he turned around and left. No complaint that we were going over 55. The way it was set up and the seemingly excessive amount of time he took to determine what he could do with a driver that had a perfect record, and the idea that he wanted to make sure that WE knew, that HE knew where we lived is what made us angry. Saw no need for that.