Move over JPC - Meet super-duper deadbeat

[somd whisper]

Okay, first of all I don't think I said that I didn't believe you. If you got that out of my posts be assured that I had no such intent.

All I am saying is what the law says on the matter. If the reason for not adhering to the guidelines wasn't documented by the court, as required by law, then that should make grounds for an immediate appeal and reconsideration should the impacted party choose to do so. If it was documented one would hope that the logic employed was reasonable and could withstand scrutiny of an appeals process.

I am sorry that came out wrong. But thanks fortaking the time to clarify that.

I do know that there are 10 states so far that allow the courts to request an accounting from custodial parent on how child support money is spent. And more are looking into it for example Alabama courts have authorized this accounting with certain circumstances.


There should be two things to consider when determining the child support.
1. The costs of supporting the child
2. The capacity of both parents to contribute to the support.

You are right, the federal government does require the courts to have “guideline” calculations that can be verified and certified, based upon certain financial information including, earnings, visitation, taxes, insurance costs and several other factors. But the courts can have the final say. The can go back and forth in court but most just don’t

Oh if you need the states they are
Delaware
Colorado
Louisiana
Florida
Indiana
Nebraska
Missouri
Oklahoma
Oregon and one more but I forgot.

 

[Ken King]

I am sorry that came out wrong. But thanks fortaking the time to clarify that.

I do know that there are 10 states so far that allow the courts to request an accounting from custodial parent on how child support money is spent. And more are looking into it for example Alabama courts have authorized this accounting with certain circumstances.


There should be two things to consider when determining the child support.
1. The costs of supporting the child
2. The capacity of both parents to contribute to the support.

You are right, the federal government does require the courts to have “guideline” calculations that can be verified and certified, based upon certain financial information including, earnings, visitation, taxes, insurance costs and several other factors. But the courts can have the final say. The can go back and forth in court but most just don’t

Oh if you need the states they are
Delaware
Colorado
Louisiana
Florida
Indiana
Nebraska
Missouri
Oklahoma
Oregon and one more but I forgot.

I could see creating a requirement for a show of accounting for the expenditure of the child support money if there was any question as to if the child was being adequately taken care of by the custodial parent or not. That just makes good sense to protect the interests of the child. And if the evidence supports such a claim one would think that a change of custody would be appropriate to protect the child. But lacking any such cause for the accounting I think it would be burdensome upon the state to make it a requirement for every support case which was what I thought you were suggesting. I think I have a better understanding of your suggestion now.

 

[somd whisper]

I could see creating a requirement for a show of accounting for the expenditure of the child support money if there was any question as to if the child was being adequately taken care of by the custodial parent or not. That just makes good sense to protect the interests of the child. And if the evidence supports such a claim one would think that a change of custody would be appropriate to protect the child. But lacking any such cause for the accounting I think it would be burdensome upon the state to make it a requirement for every support case which was what I thought you were suggesting. I think I have a better understanding of your suggestion now.

Thanks Ken,

Next time I will try to take the time to expalin better, but the tummy grumbles got the best of me.

 

[PJay]

Is that what she is saying and do you always speak for her?


Of course there can be exceptions as the law allows for but that is the basic premise of the law.


For those that willfully refuse to provide for their children blatantly or by either self-impoverishment, working under the table, or running away, yes. What do you think should happen to them? Make them legislative delegates?

Why are you being snotty? Show me where I have ever spoke for her, I believe she is new here. I do not believe I have ever been rude to you, or had an arguement with you ever, for the most part I have respected you and have enjoyed reading your post and opinions.

Sorry for trying to help, and asking your opinion.

 

[BS Gal]

I haven't finished reading this thread, but there are men that need their penis cut off.

 

[camily]

I haven't finished reading this thread, but there are men that need their penis cut off.

I freakin' love you.

 

[PJay]

Thanks Homesick that was what I meant but just did not type it all.

But I think jail may be the answer to those that keep dodging the child support. Not for all. I don't know about all. While I do not have a solution to the problem I still feel there is room for improvement. Not all child support cases are wrong and lots of families work with it, but so many of them just can't and NO I am not saying that excuses the father from child support. BOTH parents should support their child not because they are forced to but because they love them and only want the best for them.

You're welcome.

I appreciate your opinion, I'm just not sold on them being sent to jail....yet.

 

[Ken King]

Why are you being snotty? Show me where I have ever spoke for her, I believe she is new here. I do not believe I have ever been rude to you, or had an arguement with you ever, for the most part I have respected you and have enjoyed reading your post and opinions.

Sorry for trying to help, and asking your opinion.

Look, as it is sometimes difficult to read intent very well in the typed word you should realize that I was being a smartass, not snotty. I was mearly jerking your chain for answering a question that I had clearly asked her. Don't let it eat you up or bruise your feelings. By now you should know that I am sometimes like that and if I had a real problem with you it would be obvious.

As to her being new she has been here two months, has almost half the posts you have, and two-thirds of the karma you have amassed in your 15 months here. I would say she knows the ropes pretty well by now. Additionally I have communicated with Somd Whisper before and I doubt if she has a problem with me as I have been cordial with her in several other threads and I am sure we have even exchanged PMs on one particular matter.

But keeping in mind the spirit and training I have received from our our Board Mommy I will extend the olive branch and apologize for being abrasive earlier and say that I am sorry that my comment hurt your feelings.

Now get over it b!tch. Said in my most humorous manner

 

[somd whisper]

You're welcome.

I appreciate your opinion, I'm just not sold on them being sent to jail....yet.

You are welcome. I hate to see people being sent to jail for that too but at some point something has got to give.

If they are court ordered then it would be wrong not to follow the order. But I have to be honest with you out of all the child support cases I saw, even those that had high arrears were not placed in jail so I am not sure at what point they would be placed in jail.

 

[somd whisper]

Look, as it is sometimes difficult to read intent very well in the typed word you should realize that I was being a smartass, not snotty. I was mearly jerking your chain for answering a question that I had clearly asked her. Don't let it eat you up or bruise your feelings. By now you should know that I am sometimes like that and if I had a real problem with you it would be obvious.

As to her being new she has been here two months, has almost half the posts you have, and two-thirds of the karma you have amassed in your 15 months here. I would say she knows the ropes pretty well by now. Additionally I have communicated with Somd Whisper before and I doubt if she has a problem with me as I have been cordial with her in several other threads and I am sure we have even exchanged PMs on one particular matter.

But keeping in mind the spirit and training I have received from our our Board Mommy I will extend the olive branch and apologize for being abrasive earlier and say that I am sorry that my comment hurt your feelings.

Now get over it b!tch. Said in my most humorous manner

Ken,
You have always been very cordial to me and I appreciate that very much.

I have always enjoyed your posts. There will be times that some of us will not see eye to eye on an issue but we are lucky in that we can talk things out, listen to what each other has to say and walk away learning something new or agree to disagree.

Homesick hugs to you for your help. that was so nice of you to do that.

 

[MMDad]

You are welcome. I hate to see people being sent to jail for that too but at some point something has got to give.

If they are court ordered then it would be wrong not to follow the order. But I have to be honest with you out of all the child support cases I saw, even those that had high arrears were not placed in jail so I am not sure at what point they would be placed in jail.

People are only jailed when it becomes contempt. They refuse to pay what a court has ordered them to, and they don't show that there is a reason that they can't pay.

Failure to pay child support is not a crime, and you cannot be jailed for it. Contempt of court is a crime, and you can be jailed for it.

 

[somd whisper]

People are only jailed when it becomes contempt. They refuse to pay what a court has ordered them to, and they don't show that there is a reason that they can't pay.

Failure to pay child support is not a crime, and you cannot be jailed for it. Contempt of court is a crime, and you can be jailed for it.

Then I would have to agree at that point then they be jailed.

 

[JPC, Sr.]

THE Preacher!

Then I would have to agree at that point then they be jailed.

Well I am disappointed that you would give in so readily and condemn parents to jail because MMDad said it is a Court order as if all child support is not Court odered and all failure to pay is a contempt case so if the separated parent is unemployed or under employed or destitute and homessless or sick / injured then the parent is still in contempt of Court for failure to pay the child support and you each will condemn the parents to jail based on hearsay law with no trial, no jury and no justice.

When a government puts people / parents / American citizens into jail then there needs to be some kind of real life crime. Being low income and too poor to pay the unjust child support is no real reason to put parents into jail and that is what child support is still doing now - today.

Just because the custodial wants more money and better stuff for the kids does not ever give any real justification that authorizes a decent lawful government to then pillage and plunder the separated parent and then use its jails and prisons just so the custodials can buy fancy clothes and expencive shoes and that is what the present child support system does.

When a government puts American citizens / parents (human beings inside of a cage) then there needs to be some kind of real justifiable crime or else it is injustice and child support is unjust because it does do that and so we now have parents in jail just for being low income or too poor to pay the unjust demands of child support.

That is not law and order but is oppression and tyranny and unjust and it is done to American parents.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Just because the custodial wants more money and better stuff for the kids does not ever give any real justification that authorizes a decent lawful government to then pillage and plunder the separated parent and then use its jails and prisons just so the custodials can buy fancy clothes and expencive shoes and that is what the present child support system does.

Just because the non-custodial wants more money and better stuff for themselves does not ever give any real justification for them to not support their kid.

 

[hvp05]

Well I am disappointed that you would give in so readily and condemn parents to jail because MMDad said...

Again, you do not cease to amaze. You read two very blunt, simple statements and still can not get it right.

Failure to pay child support is not a crime, and you cannot be jailed for it. Contempt of court is a crime, and you can be jailed for it.

How does one tiny brain create such confusion?

... if the separated parent is unemployed or under employed or destitute and homessless or sick / injured then the parent is still in contempt

somd_whisper may not be aware, but we have already covered this as well. None of those things creates a significant enough "hardship" to warrant a change to the demands. And should the condition be so extensive, a non-custodial would have plenty of time to file a dispute order.

Being low income and too poor to pay the unjust child support...

I would have thought that, in the course of 4 paragraphs, you would shift the course of your point at least a little bit. But you said essentially the same thing repeatedly.

When you're not on the forums do you sit in the corner rocking back and forth babbling, "Child support made JPC poor. Child support made JPC poor. Child support made JPC poor. Child support made JPC poor. Child support made JPC poor. Child support made JPC poor. Child support made JPC poor." Oh, now I might want to watch "The Shining" tonight.

 

[JPC, Sr.]

The Preacher!

Just because the non-custodial wants more money and better stuff for themselves does not ever give any real justification for them to not support their kid.

But the child support system right now puts American parents in jail so custodials can buy unnecessary fancy stuff while the children already have all their physical needs fully met.

This is abusive tyranical government.

 

[Ken King]

But the child support system right now puts American parents in jail so custodials can buy unnecessary fancy stuff while the children already have all their physical needs fully met.

This is abusive tyranical government.

And this again is a demonstration of your lack of understanding and the way you operate on continued hate for your ex-wife.

Child support is for the maintenance and support of the needs of the children that are brought into the world. The fact that by paying it the custodial has more of their money to use for them is immaterial to the fact that parents are obligated to provide support for their children whether they are a part of the family or not. Just because you left doesn't mean that you are no longer under obligation to that child.

It is the acts of those like you that forced the government to intervene, had you provided the support as required you wouldn’t have had the experiences that you did. It was your choice to abandon them and it was your choice not to provide for your child. You did this to yourself and no one is to blame but you.

 

[czygvtwkr]

But the child support system right now puts American parents in jail so custodials can buy unnecessary fancy stuff while the children already have all their physical needs fully met.

This is abusive tyranical government.

Were you required to pay while you were in jail?

For the record I think that child support ending at 18 is wrong. I think both parents should have to pay for a college education if the child earned over a 3.0 in high school.

 

[somd whisper]

Well I am disappointed that you would give in so readily and condemn parents to jail because MMDad said it is a Court order as if all child support is not Court odered and all failure to pay is a contempt case so if the separated parent is unemployed or under employed or destitute and homessless or sick / injured then the parent is still in contempt of Court for failure to pay the child support and you each will condemn the parents to jail based on hearsay law with no trial, no jury and no justice.

When a government puts people / parents / American citizens into jail then there needs to be some kind of real life crime. Being low income and too poor to pay the unjust child support is no real reason to put parents into jail and that is what child support is still doing now - today.

Just because the custodial wants more money and better stuff for the kids does not ever give any real justification that authorizes a decent lawful government to then pillage and plunder the separated parent and then use its jails and prisons just so the custodials can buy fancy clothes and expencive shoes and that is what the present child support system does.

When a government puts American citizens / parents (human beings inside of a cage) then there needs to be some kind of real justifiable crime or else it is injustice and child support is unjust because it does do that and so we now have parents in jail just for being low income or too poor to pay the unjust demands of child support.

That is not law and order but is oppression and tyranny and unjust and it is done to American parents.

JPC, That is not what was said at all. Please go back and review the post.

You keep saying the same thing over and over again whether it applies or not. I for one do not support throwing anyone in jail but if you read the last post along with ALL my other posts you might see where you misunderstood that. I commented back that if it got to that point then yes jail might be the answer. BOTH parents should be held accountable for the support of their child, not the churches, not the welfare system and so on.
I said I would respectfuly leave your past out of this but you seem to keep bringing it in. You cannot base your entire stand on something that happened to you because of you.

 

[JPC, Sr.]

The Preacher!

Were you required to pay while you were in jail?

If parents are in jail for child support then the law keeps adding up arrears even though it is physically impossible for the parents to pay while they are in jail. It is incredibly untruthful and illegitimate to demand payments while they have the parents in jail but that they do.

If the parents are in jail for some other type of crime then for child support then the parent can stop the child support from increasing but many do not file the papers because they do not know how or do not know the law or just do not care about what the unjust system does to them, but the parents can stop the child support if the parent commits a real crime.

For the record I think that child support ending at 18 is wrong. I think both parents should have to pay for a college education if the child earned over a 3.0 in high school.

That is fine that custodials want and even demand more money but for a government to then put American parents into jail to feed those demands is reason for that government to fall.