Noah's Ark

[Midnightrider]

Of course this is how God is seen. God did create us; in his image no less. I would think that would cause Him to have a certain expectation of us. If you made a car wouldn’t you expect it to work under the conditions in which you made it?

I read an interesting quote the other day.
"if your god hates the same people that you do, then you have made god in your own image."

 

[PsyOps]

I read an interesting quote the other day.
"if your god hates the same people that you do, then you have made god in your own image."

God does not hate his people, he hates their sin. And we, created in His image should do the same. Love the person, hate the sin.

 

[2ndAmendment]

God does not hate his people, he hates their sin. And we, created in His image should do the same. Love the person, hate the sin.

Amen.

 

[Midnightrider]

God does not hate his people, he hates their sin. And we, created in His image should do the same. Love the person, hate the sin.

Not to say i dont agree with that sentiment.....
This is coming from the same guy who said this in the Surprise thread:

I realize some things need not be said but for once I'd like to hear you say "I can understand why you would hate such people".

 

[Roughidle]

God does not hate his people, he hates their sin. And we, created in His image should do the same. Love the person, hate the sin.

There in lies the argumental dilema. If we are all we are by GOD's will, then sin if it indeed does exist, is by GOD's will as well is it not?

 

[2ndAmendment]

There in lies the argumental dilema. If we are all we are by GOD's will, then sin if it indeed does exist, is by GOD's will as well is it not?

No. It is by free will. God allows free will, because He wants our freely given love. Love without the ability to not love is not love at all. Sin is the disobedience of man in the relationship with God. Our belief, our obedience, our salvation through Jesus is reckoned as righteousness.

 

[Roughidle]

So are you then saying, God has given us free will to control our Earthly lives and with our freedom will come reward or consequense? If so, then I ask you if you believe all on Earth is according to God's will?

 

[2ndAmendment]

So are you then saying, God has given us free will to control our Earthly lives and with our freedom will come reward or consequense? If so, then I ask you if you believe all on Earth is according to God's will?

I believe all is going according to God's overall plan. All is not going to His will because He allows us free will. He could cause all to go according to His will, but He chooses not to in order for us to exercise our free will; not because He has to but because He chooses to.

 

[wxtornado]

I believe all is going according to God's overall plan. All is not going to His will because He allows us free will. He could cause all to go according to His will, but He chooses not to in order for us to exercise our free will; not because He has to but because He chooses to.

Free will in the theist's worldview is nothing more than an illusion, unless you are intellectually dishonest with yourself and ignore the obvious logical fallacies in what you are asserting.

Given the Christian paradigm, all existence is simply a play. The ending is known. What every character is going to do, is known. It has always been known. Infinitely in time. There is no escaping this issue that comes as a CONSEQUENCE of an all-knowing, all-powerful "Author of the Universe" -- it comes inherently with the idea of a omipotent being -- like a triangle comes inherently with 3 angles. Not four, not none-- but three. You cannot escape it. It IS what MUST BE from an all knowing, all seeing God.

There can be no free will with the God of the Bible. Just like Judas HAD to betray Jesus, you have already been foreseen to get that cup of coffee (or tea, or soda, or water, or whatever).

Now if you want free will - real free will - become an atheist. Obviously, all choices an atheist makes are done so free and clear of any divine spirit foreseeng anything. Since obviously there are no "gods", free will comes inherently in the materialist wiorldview, as assuredly as it is lacking in the theists worldview.

 

[wxtornado]

Sin is the disobedience of man in the relationship with God. Our belief, our obedience, our salvation through Jesus is reckoned as righteousness.

If God authored all things, he certainly authored evil.

 

[Roughidle]

Now as an atheist do you believe in a higher consciousness or a spiritual life other than your current physical one? Do you believe one has a soul?

 

[wxtornado]

Now as an atheist do you believe in a higher consciousness or a spiritual life other than your current physical one? Do you believe one has a soul?

No, not at all. I believe that after we die, it'll be just like before we were born. I don't remember anything before I was born, so...........

 

[PsyOps]

Not to say i dont agree with that sentiment.....
This is coming from the same guy who said this in the Surprise thread:

In the context of that post I was trying to point out that it’s funny how some in this country have become more outraged at the hate expressed towards Muslims than the other way around. Muslims are particularly quick to call us racist for hating the radicals’ acts of terror while remaining silent about the hate expressed by radical Islam through their violence. Under these circumstances I can completely understand why some people would hate them. That’s not to say I condone such hate. I don’t think it accomplishes anything. In fact we have met that hate at its extreme with radical Islam’s violence. And I don’t want this whole thing to get confused with going to war with such people as an act of hate. I don’t think defending yourself is an act of hate, but rather an act of preservation.

 

[Roughidle]

So, your consciousness just will cease to exist at any level?

 

[wxtornado]

So, your consciousness just will cease to exist at any level?

That would be my guess, yes.

 

[PsyOps]

If God authored all things, he certainly authored evil.

Here is the spiritual trap you get into with this. Good and evil exist as God exists. They have always been just like God has always been. Before Lucifer was cast from heaven he became the antithesis of God; the evil. My interpretation of this is not that God created evil so much as evil just is just like good just is and God just is.

 

[Roughidle]

Hmm..interesting view. How do you define life? Not the animation of the body but actual life. Thoughts and emotion etc.

 

[PsyOps]

There in lies the argumental dilema. If we are all we are by GOD's will, then sin if it indeed does exist, is by GOD's will as well is it not?

I'm not going to try to claim I understand God's will. Sin is defined as "separation from God". In other words it's a choice on our part. But the existence of sin (or evil) as I have tried to say has always existed in the nature of things. Sort of like saying "for everything there is its opposite. I'm trying to explain things that I feel are impossible for us to understand. The infinte measure of things spiritual. If you want to believe God created sin in the sense that he put it there as his will for us to fall into that trap, then all I can say is don't sin.

 

[Roughidle]

If you want to believe God created sin in the sense that he put it there as his will for us to fall into that trap, then all I can say is don't sin.

But by Christian definition, we are born sinners and there for I have no choice but to be a sinner for my entire life. Even if I sin no more and ask for forgiveness I must still die a sinner.

 

[wxtornado]

Hmm..interesting view. How do you define life? Not the animation of the body but actual life. Thoughts and emotion etc.

do0D, did you just ask me to define life? I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.